During the time when the J-XX competition have not get a winner, the CAC, as any aggressive company, have self-funded another twin engine fighter project nick-named as "twin-engined J-10" just in case if they lost to SAC on 5th generation competition, they will then do this cheap project and hope to win some orders from Airforce as a cheaper variation of 5th generation fighter and maybe some oversea orders as well.
However, after CAC have won the 5th generation project, they quickly throw away this "twin-engined J-10" project, althrough they then self-fund another single-engine stealth J-10 project aiming at export market.
CAC is a very aggressive company and high moitived, when they get the money, they will self-funded a lot of projects and do a lot of early stage investigation in areas where there is a potential,even without any funds from the State, and like to take the hard work to go through the more challenged high-riks-high-return route.
This is in constrast to SAC, which wont do anything until the State tell them to do and always miss the deadline and end up with poor designs.
rousseau said:We barely do collection
sealordlawrence said:The J-10B is an increidbly attractive aircraft, almost Dassault attractive.
Source & pictures: http://alert5.com/2011/06/11/j-10-with-twin-rail-missile-launchers/A J-10 was spotted in Chengdu on June 10 with twin-rail missile launchers carrying PL-12 missiles. Similar to the LAU-115/LAU-127 used by the Hornet, Super Hornet.
... and also ...Мотор Китая
«Рособоронэкспорт» заключил с минобороны КНР контракт на поставку авиадвигателей на сумму свыше $500 млн. Снабжать истребители собственными моторами китайцы пока не могут
Алексей Никольский
Ведомости
04.07.2011, 120 (2886)
Контракт на поставку 123 авиадвигателей АЛ-31ФН до 2013 г. на сумму свыше $500 млн «Рособоронэкспорт» заключил с минобороны КНР в начале июня, сообщили «Ведомостям» источник, близкий к руководству «Рособоронэкспорта», и менеджер одного из предприятий авиапромышленности. По словам последнего, первые 13 двигателей будут поставлены до конца текущего года. Выполнять контракт будет московский завод «Салют», который и ранее поставлял двигатели этой модификации в Китай: 54 единицы по контракту в 2003 г., 100 — по контракту в 2007 г., 122 — в 2009 г.
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China’s Ministry of Defense signed a contract to buy Russian aircraft engines worth $500 million in early June, Vedomosti reported, citing an unidentified personsource close to Russia’s state arms-selling agency and an unidentified manager of an aviation company.
The contract is for 123 AL-31FN engines by 2013, the first 13 of which will be delivered later this year, the newspaper said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-04/china-signs-500-million-russian-jet-engine-deal-vedomosti-says.html
chuck4 said:Pakistan has no aircraft that can use AL-31, neither does Iran.
chuck4 said:Given the track record of both of those countries in designing their own aircraft, it is highly unlike either would be in a position to design an aircraft suitable for the AL-31.
chuck4 said:It seems implausible that the Chinese would sell large number of J-10 to Iran.
chuck4 said:It also seems implausible that Pakistan can afford 130 AL-31 equipped J-10.
SOC said:chuck4 said:Pakistan has no aircraft that can use AL-31, neither does Iran.
I was referring to Pakistan's J-10 desire, and the possibility of a J-10 sale to Iran.
chuck4 said:Given the track record of both of those countries in designing their own aircraft, it is highly unlike either would be in a position to design an aircraft suitable for the AL-31.
Hey come on, at least Iran TALKS a good game ;D
chuck4 said:It seems implausible that the Chinese would sell large number of J-10 to Iran.
I don't see why. They have oil, China needs oil. There's always a US problem from the political side, but oh, wait, who holds cubic buttloads of US debt? China! In fact, Iran does have some aviation know-how, and Syria, Iran, Pakistan, and potentially others in the region could use a new 4th gen fighter. Since Russia is seemingly following US instructions to not play ball, setting up a license production and overhaul facility in Tehran might be an interesting idea.
chuck4 said:It also seems implausible that Pakistan can afford 130 AL-31 equipped J-10.
123 engines does not mean 123 aircraft. Especially if it's to fill export orders, where spares are more of an immediate concern.
Eagle2009 said:Actually the AL-31 is dimensionally smaller and much lighter than the TF30, so clearly it is not a "fatter" engine. It is an inch smaller in diameter and nearly 40 inches shorter that the TF30, not to mention over 700lbs lighter.
And since the AL-31 has almost identical thrust to the F110 fitted to B/D model Tomcats, I see no need to make any major modification to the F-14A's intake system since I don't believe any major change was made with the F-14B/D.
Now whether Iran ever has any plans to change the engines of the F-14s (whether now or in the past) is pure speculation.
Eagle2009 said:Actually the AL-31 is dimensionally smaller and much lighter than the TF30, so clearly it is not a "fatter" engine. It is an inch smaller in diameter and nearly 40 inches shorter that the TF30, not to mention over 700lbs lighter.
And since the AL-31 has almost identical thrust to the F110 fitted to B/D model Tomcats, I see no need to make any major modification to the F-14A's intake system since I don't believe any major change was made with the F-14B/D.
Therefore I see no reason the F-14A's engines could not be swapped for the AL-31F, it fits in the existing airframe with little or no need for modifications and the replacement of the TF30s for F110s proves it can be done.
Now whether Iran ever has any plans to change the engines of the F-14s (whether now or in the past) is a different story.
frank said:So engine mountings & engine related systems wouldn't need changing nor be major mods?
sferrin said:If Iran can cobble together a twin-tail F-5 and get the Tomcat able to use Hawk SAMs as AAMs I don't see what the big deal is. Why should changing from a TF-30 to an AL-31 be orders of magnitude more difficult than changing from a TF-30 to an F110?
SOC said:sferrin said:If Iran can cobble together a twin-tail F-5 and get the Tomcat able to use Hawk SAMs as AAMs I don't see what the big deal is. Why should changing from a TF-30 to an AL-31 be orders of magnitude more difficult than changing from a TF-30 to an F110?
The HAWK AAM project apparently didn't work out as well as some people think. Switching to the AL-31F might be a bit of a headache for a ton of reasons: 1) the engine ramp actuators and software might need to be tweaked for different requirements of the AL-31F, 2) there might be an issue with the placement/attachment of the gearbox, 3) depending on the weight, they might have to spend some time tweaking where it will attach internally, and how long the exhaust tube will be, to met CG requirements, 4) the AL-31F might not want to attach there without major internal changes, 5) they don't have the beenfit of experience with both engine designers to get everything squared away.
That's what I can think of off the top of my head. That doesn't mean they can't do it, but making a change like that will involve a bunch of minor issues that could combine into a major headache, and a relatively complicated process. Making the twin-tail F-5 wasn't nearly as complex (and generally laughable), and the HAWK AAM was more of a modification to the missile than the airframe (getting the seeker to take cooperate with the AWG-9).
SOC said:Switching to the AL-31F might be a bit of a headache for a ton of reasons: 1) the engine ramp actuators and software might need to be tweaked for different requirements of the AL-31F,
SOC said:2) there might be an issue with the placement/attachment of the gearbox,
That did happen with the F110, yes.SOC said:3) depending on the weight, they might have to spend some time tweaking where it will attach internally, and how long the exhaust tube will be, to met CG requirements,
SOC said:4) the AL-31F might not want to attach there without major internal changes, 5) they don't have the beenfit of experience with both engine designers to get everything squared away.
Deino said:Just back from the summer-hollydays ... and now this !!
Prototype 05 with Taihang !
Deino