Boeing X-20 Dyna-Soar and alternate projects

[hesham]

The Martin/Bell proposal was Project 7990.

http://www.space.com/media/pdf/dyna-soar.pdf

I try to find any confirm about this Info from google books
site,but no way.

 

[hesham]

From Buran site;


http://www.buran.ru/htm/dynasoar.htm

 

[Spark]

The Martin/Bell proposal was Project 7990.

http://www.space.com/media/pdf/dyna-soar.pdf


I try to find any confirm about this Info from google books
site,but no way.

Hi,
RAE Farnborough were there first. Reported on the Home Service a year or two early and disputing Erihkes claims for Blunt re-entry. bodies.
Note RAE scientist was working on a bluff re-entry body in the late forties.

 

[OM]

...Anyone else see a remarkable resemblance here:

...Quite possibly the closest prototype design I've seen to the Icarus. Anyone know if this design was declassified and/or any concept in situ promo artwork was distributed prior to early 1967 when Abbott and Cruikshank started work on Planet of the Apes? Perhaps in AvLeak?

 

[Dynoman]

After straining my eyes on various photos and video footage of the Dyna Soar simulator, I've recreated one of the mid-program cockpit configurations in 3-D. I'm still looking for the lettering in the top three 'red' annunciators on the right.

 

[Orionblamblam]

The 1959 Martin-Bell concept. Higher-rez versions at the links.
Art (84901.jpg): http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=9844
Art (84851.jpg): http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=9880
3-view: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=9925
Inboard profile: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=9974

 

[Orionblamblam]

Anyone know if this design was declassified and/or any concept in situ promo artwork was distributed prior to early 1967 ...

A basic drawing of the design was published prior to 1963 or so in a declassified paper on the evolution of the Dyna Soar glider. The design never got much press; it was classified when it was first designed, but was very quickly replaced with a less insane configuration.

 

[Orionblamblam]

After straining my eyes on various photos and video footage of the Dyna Soar simulator, I've recreated one of the mid-program cockpit configurations in 3-D. I'm still looking for the lettering in the top three 'red' annunciators on the right.

A photo I have of a different cockpit layout showing that in the similar annuciators, the red ones had *no* lettering.

 

[pathology_doc]

Now that's funny! See I was gonna suggest the pilot stick a handgun out the open entry hatch and take care of the enemy sat that way.

Nothing terribly funny about it. A 5.56mm rifle round will almost certainly cause massive damage to something like a standard 1960's/70's spysat or comsat. A the very least it would make a mess of the solar panels.

My choice would be a 57mm or 75mm recoilless rifle, mounted internally and flipped out on the long axis with a gunsight for the pilot. Rear crew could reload. Guaranteed one-shot kill, I should think, on all but the largest of satellites.

 

[Dynoman]

Thanks for saving my eyes Orionblamblam. I can only assume that the three indicators are associated with failures or 'alarms' for the augmentation system, since there is one under each axis aug malf annunciator. Is that picture you have available as a high resolution picture?
I'd like to try and recreate that one as well. It looks like one of the latest configurations with switches located along the windows below the hatch.

 

[Catch-22]

New docs available at NTRS.
Three of the best.

Martin drawing
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740077062_1974077062.pdf

Martin Display Mockup
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740079987_1974079987.pdf

X-20 Coms
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740076328_1974076328.pdf

 

[sferrin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYFhUO4tnSI

 

[Orionblamblam]

Huh. As it turns out, government propaganda films featuring the Dyna Soar program are endlessly fascinating to some cats.

 

[Grey Havoc]

[chuckles]

 

[bobbymike]

Fifty years ago in Air Force Magazine:

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Documents/1962/0262dyna.pdf

 

[Triton]

1962 USAF Concept DYNA SOAR Drawing Press Photo found on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-USAF-Concept-DYNA-SOUR-Drawing-Press-Photo-/270910650092?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item3f138876ec

 

[magnus_z]

Interavia: World Review of Aviation and Astronautics. - 1962. - oct. - vol. XVII. - # 10. - p. 1298.

 

[Graham1973]

Courtesy of the 1963 story, "The Trouble With Telstar"

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30679/30679-h/30679-h.htm

The LV looks like a Saturn I derivative

 

[GeorgeA]

Martin study for USAF on Titan II booster for Dyna-Soar Step I (DS-I).

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740077029_1974077029.pdf

 

[blackstar]

They did a nice job scanning that document. There are some good images near the back.

 

[Michel Van]

The Cover art and illustration was made by SF-master Artist John Schoenherr B)

 

[Graham1973]

The Cover art and illustration was made by SF-master Artist John Schoenherr B)

Isn't the the artist who created the Wookies? See "And Seven Times Never Kill Man" by George R R Martin.

 

[Michel Van]

The Cover art and illustration was made by SF-master Artist John Schoenherr B)

Isn't the the artist who created the Wookies? See "And Seven Times Never Kill Man" by George R R Martin.

Nope that is official Ralph McQuarrie
but there some interesting "analog" with this Analog issue from 1975 and design process on wookies in 1976 :

http://www.geekosystem.com/chewbacca-origin/

and now back to Dynasoar project

Martin proposed begin 1960s a large Booster build from cluster of Titan-1 tanks and F-1 engine
as payload for manned lunar mission the illustration show a Dynasoar like glider !

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

You're talking about the Arcturus booster, right?

 

[Michel Van]

You're talking about the Arcturus booster, right?

yes that the one

 

[The Artist]

Just back from a trip to Dallas / Fort Worth with Mark N. and Rich D. I saw this interesting item in a case at the Vought Retired Employees archives.

This was not a high-speed model as it appeared to have been made with blown plastic. This is only the nose section of a larger model. (No. I did not see the rest of the model.) I have no information of the model number. Additional pictures may follow later.

 

[hesham]

My dear Michel Van,

it is North American jet-back booster,it was deigned in 1959 for the Boeing
Dyna Soar,clearly shows the Navaho and X-15 based on.

As the drawings;

1) PL-3347
2) PL-3295
3) PL-3298
4) PL-3299

The later one was appeared in the book, The X-planes X-1 to X-45.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780073127_1978073127.pdf

 

[Michel Van]

Big THX for new picture, hesham

 

[hesham]

My dear Michel Van,

it is North American jet-back booster,it was deigned in 1959 for the Boeing
Dyna Soar,clearly shows the Navaho and X-15 based on.

As the drawings;

1) PL-3347
2) PL-3295
3) PL-3298
4) PL-3299

The later one was appeared in the book, The X-planes X-1 to X-45.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780073127_1978073127.pdf

Thank you my dear Michel,


and for the NAA designation,PL series,are those right ?.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


http://www.xliby.ru/istorija/bitva_za_zvezdy_2_kosmicheskoe_protivostojanie_chast_i/p3.php

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the Convair CTV (report FZP-068);

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780075344_1978075344.pdf

 

[Stargazer]

here is the Convair CTV (report FZP-068);

The Convair CTV (Dyna-Soar proposal) was also in Report FZP-067 as follows:

FZP-067 1958-03 Dyna-Soar I CTV (Conceptual Test Vehicle): General Management Proposal for Dyna-Soar Program (System 464L) - General Management Section
FZP-068 1958-03 Dyna-Soar I CTV (Conceptual Test Vehicle): General Management Proposal for Dyna-Soar Program (System 464L) - Technical Approach Section

 

[OM]

here is the Convair CTV (report FZP-068);

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780075344_1978075344.pdf

...Jeez, and as if the stress factors involved in adapting Mercury to the Atlas wasn't pushing materials sciences as it was. Did they honestly expect the aerodynamics of the orbiter to compensate for the pencilnecking - bottlenecking doesn't do that attachment justice - or is there something in the structure that I'm missing here other than "and in between A and C is B, where B is defined as 'a miracle happens'."??

 

[Retrofit]

FZP-068 1958-03 Dyna-Soar I CTV (Conceptual Test Vehicle): General Management Proposal for Dyna-Soar Program (System 464L) - Technical Approach Section

Any link to this "Technical Approach Section" document?

I don't know if the two following documents have been already posted:
Martin "Project Dynasoar General Management Proposal" (24 march 1958): http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780075329_1978075329.pdf
Boeing Proposal (24 march 1958): http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780075341_1978075341.pdf

 

[Bill Walker]

Thanks to everybody that has contributed to this thread. I love the Dynasoar.

Following up on OM's post about requiring miracles, I'm often amazed at some of the "minor" secondary projects spun off main projects back then. Can you imagine asking your design team, who are struggling with the Dynasoar, that they need to also whip off a multi-hundred ton VTO supersonic carrier. In their spare time, perhaps.

 

[OM]

Following up on OM's post about requiring miracles, I'm often amazed at some of the "minor" secondary projects spun off main projects back then.

...IIRC, the way the story goes is this: a major agricultural conglomerate hired some famous SDI R&D guy to develop a method for killing all the bugs in a crop field. The R&D guy turned down several dozen offers from this conglomerate before finally taking the exorbitant amount of cash and prizes they offered just for playing - even though pesticide research was *not* the same thing as frying Soviet missiles from orbit. He told them that repeatedly, but apparently nobody wearing a suit was listening. They just handed him the cash and told him to get to work.


...A year went by, and the suits finally started getting concerned about the expenditures, and asked for a status briefing. The R&D guy came in with a diagram showing how his process would work. The de-bugger ray would kill all the bugs in view of a picture, which he showed both before and after the crop was zapped. In between the two photos, there was a big blank box. When queried as to what happens in the big blank box, the R&D guy replied 'A miracle".


The suits knew they'd been had, and they also realized they'd known it all along. And to top it all off, they wrote the guy a bonus check and quietly let him go back to what he was doing to begin with.

 

[Jemiba]

A well-narrated story !

 

[samardza]

has anyone other than me compared the dimensions of the X-37B and the X-20, including the cross section and payload bay dimensions?

 

[Michel Van]

has anyone other than me compared the dimensions of the X-37B and the X-20, including the cross section and payload bay dimensions?

Me with surprise result !
what ever X-20, ALSV and X-37B had to carry, it has similar size:

X-20, Equipment compartment: 1.20 m x 1.89 m (assumption after technical drawing on X-20)
ALSV, Payload bay size: 1.52 m x 2.74 m
X-37B, payload bay size: 1.2 m x 2.1 m

 

[blackstar]

has anyone other than me compared the dimensions of the X-37B and the X-20, including the cross section and payload bay dimensions?

Me with surprise result !
what ever X-20, ALSV and X-37B had to carry, it has similar size:

X-20, Equipment compartment: 1.20 m x 1.89 m (assumption after technical drawing on X-20)
ALSV, Payload bay size: 1.52 m x 2.74 m
X-37B, payload bay size: 1.2 m x 2.1 m

I think you are jumping to conclusions. There is no payload that would have stayed the same size in 1960, 1980 and 2010.