Boeing P-8A Poseidon (737-800EFV) MMA (Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft)

GTX said:
helmutkohl said:
in regards to Canada, was the P-1 ever an option?
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Probably looked at but not sure if formal proposal ever offered.
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It looks like Canada is proposing to sole-source the P-8 immediately, instead of running the competition that was planned to begin next year (and not even receive bids until 2027!) If they did run a competition, obviously Bombardier wanted to participate, and I'd assume Airbus too. Kawasaki might have offered as well, but the P-1's track record so far has not been great (no wins in about a half-dozen formal or informal competitions).

ottawacitizen.com

Canada requests Boeing P-8 surveillance aircraft from U.S. government

Bombardier still intends to put in a bid if the Liberal government decides it will hold a competition to replace the CP-140 Auroras.
ottawacitizen.com ottawacitizen.com
 
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I believe (and could be wrong) that the P-8 is approaching end of production based on current orders and that Boeing has been advising prospective customers of "last call and we're not kidding" for orders.
 
aim9xray said:
I believe (and could be wrong) that the P-8 is approaching end of production based on current orders and that Boeing has been advising prospective customers of "last call and we're not kidding" for orders.
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Seems true. They have a backlog to 2025, but got no orders in 2022 and started saying that they might not be able to keep the line open. But there are a bunch of other customers out there, so I would not be surprised to see a few more roll in in the next couple of years to keep the line hot for a while longer.

www.scramble.nl

Poseidon's backlog run to 2025

Poseidon's backlog run to 2025 On 7 July 2022, the newest US Navy Boeing P-8 Poseidon Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA), BuNo 170013 (c/n 66976/9065), took to the skies at Boeing Fiel...
www.scramble.nl www.scramble.nl
 
With a current end of production at 2025, and subtracting a a long lead time item span of two years, you get a decision point of just about ... now.

Boeing of ten years ago could afford to build a few "white tails" (C-17). Today, with military contracts unbesmirched by profit, not so much.
 
Exactly what I was thinking about the future overseas sales of the P-8 GTX.
 
on another but related note..
ive read that the Kawasaki P-1 does its mission the same was as the P-3, by flying at lower altitudes, hence its longer MAD in the tail.
but that the P-8 flies higher and does not need as long a MAD.
any pros and cons to these two different approaches?
 
helmutkohl said:
on another but related note..
ive read that the Kawasaki P-1 does its mission the same was as the P-3, by flying at lower altitudes, hence its longer MAD in the tail.
but that the P-8 flies higher and does not need as long a MAD.
any pros and cons to these two different approaches?
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High altitude allows the aircraft to have a greater line of site and fuel efficiency. Hypothetically they are also safer from MANPADS and such, though that isn't a driving concern. The drawbacks would be the lack of MAD capability and the precision of torpedo and sonobuoy placement. I think the latter is compensated for by having a dropsonds that help map the wind conditions to the surface as well as delaying parachute deployment on the buoys. There was an add on fin package that could spin up an A sized buoy to help increase its drop accuracy from medium altitudes; I don't know if it was ever adopted. At least some of the newer buoys used for fine targeting (DICASS?) employ GPS so that their position is explicitly known as soon as they broadcast. Torpedoes have the same liability for drifting off target but in that case guided wing kits can bring them down with precision. This isn't used for sonobuoys for reasons of cost; also the exact placement of the buoys isn't extremely important so long as you know their location.
 
RavenOne said:
Remnants of Dale Brown anyone? Yep here is how RB-8 all Arsenal missile carry8ng version could be.

www.thedrive.com

The Case For Stripping The P-8 Poseidon Down Into An RB-8 Multi-Role Arsenal Ship

A non-maritime patrol variant of the P-8 could provide the Air Force with a highly flexible platform for augmenting the bomber force and much more.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
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Just needs a V-tail, RAM skinning, an SST Nose, and that anti-searchlight black paint... :D

isayyo2 said:
I only call it outlandish since his proposal for an "RB-8" is a step backwards from just buying more P-8s and keeping their supply chain intact.
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It's honestly not that bad an idea. 13-17,000lbs bomb load, plus whatever you can stuff into the Sonobuoy slots, and anything through a pair of Derringer Doors (the P-8 does still have the two aft doors, right?). The real question is how much weight and volume the ASW gear takes up in the tube, and if a JSTARS type radar in the forward belly integrates through the existing consoles (at the cost of 4000lbs bombload).

I think it'd work as a permissive CAS and edge-of-SAM-range swarmlord. Paint the entire plane pure white with minimal US markings on it, and you could probably use it to fly in a SOCOM team doing some sneaky BS, and provide high cover while the team is doing so. (Note that I'd prefer to sneak a team in a different way, so that they have some kind of ground transport and VTOL extraction available.)

Oh, and because we're kicking on the Dale Brown MegaFortress theme, loadout:
EW pod on each side; some MER rigged up to carry 6x AMRAAMs on one side; Sniper targeting pod on the other since the factory FLIR can't do that (yes, it would be better to replace the P8 FLIR with an internal Sniper pod); 20x StormBreakers in the bomb bay; at least 24x Griffin glide bombs out the Derringer Doors; and 90x total of every imaginable BS drone, bomb, jammer, swarming drop, chaff, flare, smoke, etc ad nauseam.

Mission is to cover a team going in to mess with Best Korea. ;)
 
That is the first time that I have heard that the LRASM has 1000 km range Forest Green, I previously heard that they had ranges of upto 1000 km but they were only rumours.
 
FighterJock said:
That is the first time that I have heard that the LRASM has 1000 km range Forest Green, I previously heard that they had ranges of upto 1000 km but they were only rumours.
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I think the only official number ever given out is "greater than 200nm". I don't think the initial version does have a 1000km range; that is basically AGM-158B. However, there is a new type - AGM-158C-2 - which apparently is closer to a navalized JASSM with no RF capability. Presumably it would keep the sea skimming radar altimeter and the weapon datalink to retain an anti ship role, though no details have been given. I suspect that range reduction of the original LRASM from the JASSM ER platform it was based on had a lot to do with the passive RF guidance installation, so the C2 version might get back to AGM-158B type ranges. There is also an even newer version in budget documents that is supposed to enter production in a few years called "LRASM ER" / "AGM-158C-3", which at a random guess adds the RF guidance back in while keeping the range of standard JASSM (either using new electronics or perhaps with a warhead size reduction). Since the Australians signed their LRASM buy deal recently, it is possible they are buying a later version.

Of course, it is far more likely whoever wrote the article just screwed up the range difference between AGM-158B and C.
 
I did not know that there were going to be different variants of the LRASM Josh_TN. Plus the LRASM ER sounds interesting, that would give potential enemys food for thought.
 
FighterJock said:
I did not know that there were going to be different variants of the LRASM Josh_TN. Plus the LRASM ER sounds interesting, that would give potential enemys food for thought.
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Here's an article on C2. The C3 I've only seen mentioned in the 2024 budget request.

U.S. Navy Comes Full Circle On JASSM Program | Aviation Week Network

After several cancellations over decades, the Navy’s revived interest in the Joint Air-to-Surface Missile family also reveals pursuit of more capabilities for it.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
 
There's a P-3 that ran off the west end of the runway at NAS Cubi Pt. Philippines and went in the drink... a few A-6s and EA-6Bs that did the same at NAS Whidbey Island, Wa... probably P-2s & P-3s at NAS Atsugi, etc.
 
Another heritage flight?

hwgc3jwhrjf21.jpg
 
Pilot just had a senior moment…all that glass made him think he was in the Johnson Sea Link…

Beats thinking a B-52 was a Flip Ship…let Elon do that.
 
TomS said:
Unless they adapt it to a wing-kit, the RAF P-8s are still going to be hamstrung. I wonder if C-HAAWC will also take Stingray?
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Size wise it should do. But a UK/Stingray specific wingkit wouldn't be too onerous. Would have thought MBDA could use the Diamondback or someone could go to Leigh Aerosystems and buy the SWAK that followed on from Longshot.
 
Oh, the pampered rich of Gleneagles would be seething at that low-level flypast ...:p
 
aonestudio said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1727283352569610522
View: https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1727283352569610522

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They finally have her back on dry land, and it sounds like they think she's salvable.


I suspected they might be able to at least recover the electronics, since it looks like she floated with the crew deck above the waterline. Return to flight seems really optimistic, however. Corrosion-proofed or not, the airframe was probably never intended to be immersed in water for two weeks straight.
 
GTX said:
boeing.mediaroom.com

Canada Selects Boeing's P-8A Poseidon as its Multi-Mission Aircraft

The Government of Canada has signed a Foreign Military Sales Letter of Offer and Acceptance for up to 16 Boeing [NYSE: BA] P-8A Poseidon aircraft, as part of the Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft...
boeing.mediaroom.com boeing.mediaroom.com

1701369787560
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Bombardier/Canadair promptly suggested re-opening the contract to allow them to offer a version of their Challenger/Global Express despite never having equipped any with half of the avionics required for sub-hunting.

This is standard Canadian politics where buying votes in Quebec is more important than patrolling our coast-lines.
I may have grown up in Quebec - only a couple of hours from the Canadair factory - but concluded that Quebec politics had turned foolish many decades ago.
 
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riggerrob said:
Bombardier/Canadair promptly suggested re-opening the food tract to allow them to offer a version of their Challenger/Global Express despite never having equipped any with half of the avionics required for sub-hunting.
This is standard Canadian politics where buying votes in Quebec is more important than patrolling our coast-lines.
I may have grown up in Quebec - only a couple of hours from the Canadair factory - but concluded that Quebec politics had turned foolish many decades ago.
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don't be too hard on yourself - this is how it works everywhere :/
 
Well, things are getting interesting for the P-8 Poseidon TomcatVIP now we have two special mission variants. I wonder what the new variant might be used for? SIGINT/ELINT or some other role that requires such modifications.
 
FighterJock said:
Well, things are getting interesting for the P-8 Poseidon TomcatVIP now we have two special mission variants. I wonder what the new variant might be used for? SIGINT/ELINT or some other role that requires such modifications.
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Well, something had to replace the EP-3Es, and maybe RC-135s.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Well, something had to replace the EP-3Es, and maybe RC-135s.
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Once upon a time there was a formal requirement for an EP-3 replacement, called EP-X. Boeing was clearly the front-runner with a 737 derivative similar to the P-8, but Airbus and Embraer both had proposals. EP-X got "cancelled" back in 2011, but it looks like it essentially got done via the backdoor with aircraft modifications rather than new builds.
 

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