Boeing F-15EX/QA and related variants

Archibald said:
Just asking in passing, were there some studies made - whether extremely large numbers of F-35 could aliviate the issue of only 180 F-22 Raptors ? Is the ratio too unbalanced ?
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Not sure.
Currently F-22/F-15c are supposed to be succeeded by only PCA.
Screenshot_20200809-174437~2.png
 
Screenshot_20200809-175148~2.png

Looking at this table helps understand why F-15ex was rushed into a somewhat monopolistic F35-A procurement schedule.

The newest F-15C is 30 years old today, the oldest over 40, and the choice probably was to
-) either shut down the squadron until F35A replacements came and were assimilated, trained or
-) procure the same aircraft to not have to go over the training bump again, and stand down the squadron meanwhile.

Its just probably me who didnt know this, but those Ex are not going to stand up any new squadrons, although it will change their operational use from OCA to multirole, which might end up cutting F35 numbers.
 
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The F-15EX purchase just comes down to too many F-15Cs timing out. The new Eagles will probably be replacing Charlies one for one initially, but as F-35 production catches up, I think we will ultimately see the Echos retired and the EXs taking on a long range strike role instead. They also will be capable of carrying very large outsided ordnance that F-35s can't easily carry, or at least for not as far. Hypersonic weapons come to mind. It has been implied that AGM-183 would be within the ability of the F-15EX to carry on a centerline station.
 
Josh_TN said:
The F-15EX purchase just comes down to too many F-15Cs timing out. The new Eagles will probably be replacing Charlies one for one initially, but as F-35 production catches up, I think we will ultimately see the Echos retired and the EXs taking on a long range strike role instead. They also will be capable of carrying very large outsided ordnance that F-35s can't easily carry, or at least for not as far. Hypersonic weapons come to mind. It has been implied that AGM-183 would be within the ability of the F-15EX to carry on a centerline station.
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Agree, these are simply replacements for fatigued airframes. Probably not possible to ramp up F35 by another x per year, within a reasonable timeframe, and it does give options - just as wheels are more peaceful than tracks, maybe an F15 is less threatening than an F35 in some situations. So these can be used for CONUS air policing, they would also allow US to reinforce allies, perhaps if those allies had got into a shooting war of some sort, and didnt operate F35....
 
Josh_TN said:
The F-15EX purchase just comes down to too many F-15Cs timing out. The new Eagles will probably be replacing Charlies one for one initially, but as F-35 production catches up, I think we will ultimately see the Echos retired and the EXs taking on a long range strike role instead. They also will be capable of carrying very large outsided ordnance that F-35s can't easily carry, or at least for not as far. Hypersonic weapons come to mind. It has been implied that AGM-183 would be within the ability of the F-15EX to carry on a centerline station.
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Yep. Depending on conditions, possibly even wing stations. Israel fires the 6,900lb Silver Sparrow missile target from the inboard wing station.

Sparrow.PNG
 
Fluff said:
Josh_TN said:
The F-15EX purchase just comes down to too many F-15Cs timing out. The new Eagles will probably be replacing Charlies one for one initially, but as F-35 production catches up, I think we will ultimately see the Echos retired and the EXs taking on a long range strike role instead. They also will be capable of carrying very large outsided ordnance that F-35s can't easily carry, or at least for not as far. Hypersonic weapons come to mind. It has been implied that AGM-183 would be within the ability of the F-15EX to carry on a centerline station.
Click to expand...
Agree, these are simply replacements for fatigued airframes. Probably not possible to ramp up F35 by another x per year, within a reasonable timeframe, and it does give options - just as wheels are more peaceful than tracks, maybe an F15 is less threatening than an F35 in some situations. So these can be used for CONUS air policing, they would also allow US to reinforce allies, perhaps if those allies had got into a shooting war of some sort, and didnt operate F35....
Click to expand...

I should add, the specific model, F-15, means that the cost of ownership is greatly reduced for the USAF, since training and parts and infrastructure requirements will be very similar to the existing fleet. There also is no R&D associated with the type as well. So while the per airframe cost isn't competitive, the total cost of ownership in rounding out the USAF's numbers with this type is actually probably very pronounced.
 
Josh_TN said:
The F-15EX purchase just comes down to too many F-15Cs timing out.
Click to expand...

The AF approach pre-FY20 to that was simple: SLEP. New wing (-E wing to which the USG, surprisingly, owns the data rights) + new longerons.
It would competed and by virtue of license production of large chunks of the F-15, there could be good cost savings through competition.

It could cost around $10 million per F-15C according to testimony by General Holmes and would get you out to the 2040's.

The F-15Cs would still get EPAWSS at $10 mil/pop and ADCP II.

The only counter-argument to it was that the Mattis-era readiness diktat (who cares if 80% MC costs hugely more than 75% MC).
couldn't be readily accommodated. And to a lesser extent, there were more unknown unknowns in the timeline.

Of course, the claim that the timelines are somehow shorter or that there's no R&D associated with the F-15EX is rather belied by:

The goal of the integrated DT and OT is to ensure the EX meets the needs of the warfighter in its intended
operational environment. This enables Eglin AFB’s testers to highlight any system issues early,
so they can be fixed before the F-15EX’s increased production and ultimate delivery to the squadrons.
The initial phase of tests will take approximately a year and a half.
Click to expand...
 
marauder2048 said:
Josh_TN said:
The F-15EX purchase just comes down to too many F-15Cs timing out.
Click to expand...

The AF approach pre-FY20 to that was simple: SLEP. New wing (-E wing to which the USG, surprisingly, owns the data rights) + new longerons.
It would competed and by virtue of license production of large chunks of the F-15, there could be good cost savings through competition.

It could cost around $10 million per F-15C according to testimony by General Holmes and would get you out to the 2040's.

The F-15Cs would still get EPAWSS at $10 mil/pop and ADCP II.

The only counter-argument to it was that the Mattis-era readiness diktat (who cares if 80% MC costs hugely more than 75% MC).
couldn't be readily accommodated. And to a lesser extent, there were more unknown unknowns in the timeline.

Of course, the claim that the timelines are somehow shorter or that there's no R&D associated with the F-15EX is rather belied by:

The goal of the integrated DT and OT is to ensure the EX meets the needs of the warfighter in its intended
operational environment. This enables Eglin AFB’s testers to highlight any system issues early,
so they can be fixed before the F-15EX’s increased production and ultimate delivery to the squadrons.
The initial phase of tests will take approximately a year and a half.
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30-40 million a bird.

www.defensenews.com

Boeing hits back on F-15C retirement proposal

F-15 manufacturer Boeing says the service has already put the jets on a path that will keep them in service and relevant into the 2030s.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
 
trose213 said:
30-40 million a bird.
Click to expand...

Holmes:

View: https://youtu.be/7du-vfIWl2A?t=2814


auto-transcript (slightly cleaned up):

The f-15c is a prime example of that the airplane has structural problems that will require replacement
of major structural members the launcher on that run lengthwise in the airplane followed by the wings being replaced and
then followed by bulkheads on the center fuselage which means it'd be better to buy a new airplane than to try to work
through those repairs that's important walk through we originally budgeted approximately a million per plane after
the knowledge that came through long structural what does that take the number up to well so the the the exact
number will depend on the time that you. go after but that million per plane was based on fuselage longerons and as
you add the wings and the fuselage into it the initial estimates we dealt with we're in the tens of millions per
airplane I think as we work with the prime contractor now you can get that number probably down around 10 million
or so per airplane but that's in a estimation you don't really know until you open the airplanes up
Click to expand...


F-22 Restart Study:

f-15-SLEP.png
 
marauder2048 said:
trose213 said:
30-40 million a bird.
Click to expand...

Holmes:

View: https://youtu.be/7du-vfIWl2A?t=2814


auto-transcript (slightly cleaned up):

The f-15c is a prime example of that the airplane has structural problems that will require replacement
of major structural members the launcher on that run lengthwise in the airplane followed by the wings being replaced and
then followed by bulkheads on the center fuselage which means it'd be better to buy a new airplane than to try to work
through those repairs that's important walk through we originally budgeted approximately a million per plane after
the knowledge that came through long structural what does that take the number up to well so the the the exact
number will depend on the time that you. go after but that million per plane was based on fuselage longerons and as
you add the wings and the fuselage into it the initial estimates we dealt with we're in the tens of millions per
airplane I think as we work with the prime contractor now you can get that number probably down around 10 million
or so per airplane but that's in a estimation you don't really know until you open the airplanes up
Click to expand...


F-22 Restart Study:

View attachment 639315
Click to expand...

That's just for the fuselage.
 
trose213 said:
marauder2048 said:
trose213 said:
30-40 million a bird.
Click to expand...

Holmes:

View: https://youtu.be/7du-vfIWl2A?t=2814


auto-transcript (slightly cleaned up):

The f-15c is a prime example of that the airplane has structural problems that will require replacement
of major structural members the launcher on that run lengthwise in the airplane followed by the wings being replaced and
then followed by bulkheads on the center fuselage which means it'd be better to buy a new airplane than to try to work
through those repairs that's important walk through we originally budgeted approximately a million per plane after
the knowledge that came through long structural what does that take the number up to well so the the the exact
number will depend on the time that you. go after but that million per plane was based on fuselage longerons and as
you add the wings and the fuselage into it the initial estimates we dealt with we're in the tens of millions per
airplane I think as we work with the prime contractor now you can get that number probably down around 10 million
or so per airplane but that's in a estimation you don't really know until you open the airplanes up
Click to expand...


F-22 Restart Study:

View attachment 639315
Click to expand...

That's just for the fuselage.
Click to expand...

He says wings and fuselage. And per the FY19 budget, that R&D included the new wing.
 
A must read. Complete much of the debates we had here and elsewhere around having EX or not.

1120_Tirpak_002_F15EX.jpg

www.airforcemag.com

Joining Up on the F-15EX | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Air Force prepares to welcome the first new F-15s since 2004.
www.airforcemag.com www.airforcemag.com
 
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Four bombs on the CFT’s, one centerline, and one on each wing. No way it’s practical. Maybe with a cold day, 10,000ft strip and a tanker overhead.
 
According to Boeing's website on the F-15, maximum 'weapons' payload is 29,500 lb. Seven 2000lbers is only 14,000 lb
 
Not practical but definitely within the MTOW by a wide margin. Echos in the sand box have been filmed dripping with a Swiss Army knife of ordnance.
 
F-15SA wings for USAF F--15E:
“In June 2018, the 409th SCMS partnered with the F-15 System Program Office, the F-15 Foreign Military Saudi case manager, and Worldwide Redistribution Service representatives to determine the feasibility of purchasing Royal Saudi Air Force F-15SA wings that were removed during a fleet retrofit and scheduled for destruction,” he said.

After completing a business case analysis of several wing procurement initiatives, Hudson said the decision was made to buy the F-15SA wings.
Click to expand...

www.robins.af.mil

409th SCMS works with F-15 SPO, AFLCMC to secure RSAF wings for F-15, saving millions

The 409th Supply Chain Management Squadron, along with the Air Force Life Cycle Management Center’s F-15 Program Office and F-15SA Conversion, Fighters and Advanced Aircraft Program Office at Robins
www.robins.af.mil
 
helmutkohl said:
Can the EX win in India?
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Its just a formality, in the process of declaring EX and its modules exportable without specific country based adjustments.
Similar things happen whenever a new fighter type is to be declared FMS compliant, like the viper 60 etc.
 
I wish they would post the flight testing videos with the new flight by wire system, They should have called f-25 or something like that. It might not be stealth but it is going to be a beast
 
The media people are confused enough as it is, changing the name would make them suggest it as an all new aircraft and "Why is it not a stealthy aircraft"?
 
Good Day All -

I was there yesterday - first day out of quarantine and Boeing flew a bunch of aircraft for me :) F-15QA 006 and 008 flew, 008 for the first time and without CFTs and later a Kuwaiti F/A-18E went up as well. Catbird flew off to Palmdale and EX flew early afternoon. Felt great to be out of the house, in the sun and listening, and feeling!, jet engines!

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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Question: why does 15EX use GE-129 engines with thrust of 13.1 tons instead of more powerful GE-132 egines that have 14.5 tons?
F-15EX has CFTs by default and new quadruple racks are also more draggy compared to dual missile pylons?
 
Anduriel said:
Question: why does 15EX use GE-129 engines with thrust of 13.1 tons instead of more powerful GE-132 egines that have 14.5 tons?
F-15EX has CFTs by default and new quadruple racks are also more draggy compared to dual missile pylons?
Click to expand...

It's most likely due to the mass flow requirement of the GE-132 to generate that amount of thrust. They would have to redesign the inlets for the higher mass flow rate, which would require a massive redesign of the airframe.
 
Mark Nankivil said:
Good Day All -

I was there yesterday - first day out of quarantine and Boeing flew a bunch of aircraft for me :) F-15QA 006 and 008 flew, 008 for the first time and without CFTs and later a Kuwaiti F/A-18E went up as well. Catbird flew off to Palmdale and EX flew early afternoon. Felt great to be out of the house, in the sun and listening, and feeling!, jet engines!

Enjoy the Day! Mark
Click to expand...

Hi Mark, do you have any idea what program the Catbird is flying in support of right now?
Ken
 

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