The one leased to GE had one TF39 or one CF6 mounted on an inboard pylon for flight test purposes. The remaining 6 engines were the J57 engines, so they didn’t have the outboard engine out controllability concern, and they could be throttled asymmetrically to offset the higher thrust from the test engine on the inboard pylon as necessary.
 
The point is still that the B-52Hs still in service were built as -H models.

Planes built as B-52Gs were not converted from Ds or whatever, they were all built as Gs. (XB wasn't operational, that was strictly an R&D prototype).

This is the first time in history that planes built as one model of B-52 are being converted en masse to another type.
 
That consideration is why it took so long to actually re-engine them, especially considering the number of available engines.

I thought the convoluted process for finally gettng a new engine was more funding/resolve driven than anything else. Yes, some of the earlier proposals were dropped as the engine oput situation could not be met with repalcing 8 with 4 and ground clearance considerations as well. I probably missed something over the years....

Enjoy the Day! Mark
They could have been re-engined one-for-one in the early 1980s with the 18,900 lbf JT8D-209 (certified 1979 for MD-80 airliners and for B727 re-engining (replacing the side-mounted engines) which were more fuel-efficient than the TF33s (JT3D) - and 4" smaller in diameter. The engine was retired from mainline airline use in 2020.

The late 1980s/early 1990s saw an opportunity for a one-for-one replacement program with the B-2's engine, the F118. This engine was flight-certified (for the B-2) in 1985 (and was also installed in the U2S fleet in 1998+), and is even 2.5" smaller in diameter than the JT8D-209 while using much less fuel than the TF33 (.375 lb/lbf/hr vs .510 for the JT8D-209 and .52 for the TF33-P-3).

A second chance for the JT8D-209 engine came in 2001 when the 200-series JT8Ds were certified as a TF-33 replacement engine for military and civilian use, and new 200 series JT-8Ds were produced as late as 2011 for some military aircraft.
 
They could have been re-engined one-for-one in the early 1980s with the 18,900 lbf JT8D-209 (certified 1979 for MD-80 airliners and for B727 re-engining (replacing the side-mounted engines) which were more fuel-efficient than the TF33s (JT3D) - and 4" smaller in diameter. The engine was retired from mainline airline use in 2020.

The late 1980s/early 1990s saw an opportunity for a one-for-one replacement program with the B-2's engine, the F118. This engine was flight-certified (for the B-2) in 1985 (and was also installed in the U2S fleet in 1998+), and is even 2.5" smaller in diameter than the JT8D-209 while using much less fuel than the TF33 (.375 lb/lbf/hr vs .510 for the JT8D-209 and .52 for the TF33-P-3).

A second chance for the JT8D-209 engine came in 2001 when the 200-series JT8Ds were certified as a TF-33 replacement engine for military and civilian use, and new 200 series JT-8Ds were produced as late as 2011 for some military aircraft.
The TF33s soldiered on because the USAF retired all the C-141s and suddenly had hundreds if not thousands of spare engines available.

Now, though, the TF33s are all used up and long out of production.
 
1 B-52A was converted to a NB-52A with an additional pylon and wing flap cutout section
7 B-52B's were converted to C's under project Sunflower
1 B-52B was converted to a NB-52B for NASA with an additional pylon and wing flap cutout section
1 B-52E was converted to a NB-52E with added canards and modifications to reduce vibrations and vulnerability to wing gusts for low level flying
1 B-52E was leased to General Electric as the JB-52E and had both TF39 and CF6 engines fitted


The first two prototypes were fitted with YJ57-P-3 engines
The A's were witted with J57-P-1W, The B's and D's had the J57-P-29W, J57-P-29WA or a J57-P-19W all with the same non-water injected output of 10,500 lbf
The F and G's had the J57-P-43WB
The H had the TF33-P-3
And now the H's will be re-designated J's and be refitted with a Rolls-Royce F130

So thats 10 different engines the B-52 has had in its lifetime.
And one B-52E was loaned to P&W as a NB-52E and tested the JT9D engine.

JB-52E (B-52E-55-BW 57-0119 [MSN 464108] bailed to GE Flight Test January 1966 and converted to JB-52E as engine testbed for TF39 for the C-5A, and for CF6. Put in long-term storage in 1972. Decommissioned by GE in 1980 and towed to the south end of the lakebed at Rogers Dry Lake (Edwards AFB). Years later in 1991 it was broken up by explosive charges according to the SALT treaty. It seems that a Russian photo interpreter noticed that the plane seemed to be intact, and insisted that it be rendered inoperative. Seen at Rogers Dry Lake in three pieces). :

JB-52E SN 57-0119 in 1965 flight test of TF39-GE-1C turbofan for C-5A Galaxy.jpg


NB-52E (B-52-85-BO 56-0636 [MSN 17319] used as a test airframe by Pratt & Whitney until 7/30/81. Used to trial some of its engines, including the JT9D turbofan used on the Boeing 747. To MASDC as BC275 July 30 1981. Scrapped February 1994). :

NB-52E testing JT9D for P&W.jpg
 
It seems that a Russian photo interpreter noticed that the plane seemed to be intact, and insisted that it be rendered inoperative.

That Russian photo interpreter should've been given a boot up his arse, that aircraft was derelict and blowing it up just an unnecessary bit of vandalism.
 
Why haven't they? They've had literally decades to digitise the drawings.
Who was going to pay for doing the digitizing? Boeing isn't going to incur the cost, and you're also assuming that all of the drawings still exist and are easily to hand. It would be
a large and expensive project to track down all of that old data and convert it to digital
formats. It ain't a matter of just feeding a drawing into a scanner.
 
The TF33s soldiered on because the USAF retired all the C-141s and suddenly had hundreds if not thousands of spare engines available.

Now, though, the TF33s are all used up and long out of production.
The C-141 engines were TF33-P-7, which had 21K thrust and were heavier, vs the TF33-P-3 engines on the B-52H with 18K thrust. They are not interchangeable, but may have provided some spare part to the B-52H fleet. The P-7 engine is almost the same as the TF33-P-100 on the E-3 AWACS without the enlarged gearbox needed for the larger electrical generators needed for the AWACS application.
 
Who was going to pay for doing the digitizing? Boeing isn't going to incur the cost

The DOD would pay for it but Boeing could've done done this itself, remember Boeing is a large multi-billion dollar company, it has the financial means to do such a project.

you're also assuming that all of the drawings still exist and are easily to hand.

I suspect that they are all still on hand as the B-52H is very much still in service and if any drawings have been lost or destroyed without DOD authorisation someone in Boeing's engineering department going to be torn a new arsehole.
 
The DOD would pay for it but Boeing could've done done this itself, remember Boeing is a large multi-billion dollar company, it has the financial means to do such a project.

For what return though? Boeing isn't going to invest its own money without some prospect of a payback, and I just don't see it. (Not to mention, they are hemorrhaging money right now.)

DoD is making a digital twin of the B-1B. It's a 6+ year effort that is going to cost north of $100 million.



DoD is also tinkering with one for the B-52 as an SBIR. I don't think this one aims for the level of fidelity in the B-1 effort, given the relatively little money being spent.

 
The B-52 would sadly break apart, and it is something that no BUFF pilot has ever attempted or ever will.
That of course presupposes there's enough thrust to overcome the drag rise. The old bird will quite happily do .92 M at 20,000 ft, been there done that and even dropped a MALD while we had both HSAB's on the jet. VNE is 90% of VD (been there done that also, but not on the BUFF) which comes out to 1.02 M. Usually, flutter is the main concern. If you Google B-52 Flutter Test this NASA report is the top result.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19760003021/downloads/19760003021.pdf

After a quick scan of that paper my thought is that the BUFF will only get close to Mach if you dive it. The other thing to remember is that the BUFF is a 2 G airframe, so it doesn't take much G to rip the wings off or permanently deform the structure. You might well break Mach, if you dive high enough, but then you'd probably rip the wings off in the pull up. As @FighterJock said, no sane pilot will do that.
 
Just to pick a nit, the DC-8 is 2.5 G flaps up Old time bombers only had 2 G.

ISTR there also being a 727 that had an upset and went supersonic and managed to regain control by lowering the gear. Rod Machado talked about it on one of his safety tapes back in the day whennwe listened to cassette tapes, LOL. It did rip the gear doors off but otherwise the plane landed without further incident.
 
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I'd thought bombers and transports were +3.5-1.5 in general?
The Bone can be anywhere from 2.0 to a little over 3 depending on load and wing sweep (I don’t have the dash one handy). It’s also been a while since I looked at the old Mil Std’s and I’m geographically separated from all my design books, so memory’s a bit fuzzy. The kicker now is that all of Mil Std’s are no longer binding unless specifically called out as a contract requirement so it’s entirely possible to have it vary by aircraft. I did have a DC-8 manual in the virtual library that I could reference quickly.
 
I’m confident no one would pitch a B-52 into a dive like that unless they knew they were gto die anyway.
 
Hrm. That looks like +2.5-1. Odd. I swear my ancient paper copy of FAR43 said +3.5-1.5... Too many dead brain cells!
Yes, almost made that mistake myself. Part 23 aircraft, general aviation, come in two flavors (3 actually but aerobatic are supposed to pull G’s) Normal and Utility. Normal are your +3.8/-1.5 G and utility are +4.4/-1.76 G.
 
Both the DC-8-43 and Global 8000 have been dived through Mach 1 and recovered without shedding their wings... and they're 2g rated.

Not something routine but not impossible either.
IIRC, a 727 also went through Mach 1 (the autopilot decided to do a very quick descent). The aircraft was landed safely, but the airframe was damaged beyond repair and the engines were rendered no longer flightworthy.

A friend told me -- possibly accurately (I have no way of verifying his information, although I know him to be personally quite honest) -- that B-52s flying in the 1960s and 1970s had strain gauges along the wing spar to monitor stress levels, and they had warning lights in the cockpit for when the stress levels exceeded the values that didn't make the structures guys too nervous.
 
A friend told me -- possibly accurately (I have no way of verifying his information, although I know him to be personally quite honest) -- that B-52s flying in the 1960s and 1970s had strain gauges along the wing spar to monitor stress levels, and they had warning lights in the cockpit for when the stress levels exceeded the values that didn't make the structures guys too nervous.
That'd be around the time the B52s were doing low level flight, so I'd believe it.
 
Will the new engines make the weight capacity for the B52 increase or will it be the same
Will probably be about the same. Might go up some, because they're replacing a bunch of old hardware, but I don't expect the max takeoff weight to go up. Just Empty Weight going down.
 
Will the new engines make the weight capacity for the B52 increase or will it be the same

The same, more or less. The engine was chosen to have as close as possible to the same thrust characteristics as TF-33 to reduce risk. This is not an upgrade so much as a maintenance issue, since 33s are no longer available.
 
how would a B52 get past air defense like missile systems or C-rams and can the B52 evade missiles shot from a jet how would they get past jets?
 
how would a B52 get past air defense like missile systems or C-rams and can the B52 evade missiles shot from a jet how would they get past jets?
It doesn't change how the B-52 is used. It still is a standoff and not a penetrater bomber
 
how would a B52 get past air defense like missile systems or C-rams and can the B52 evade missiles shot from a jet how would they get past jets?

The B-52 is essentially a cruise missile carrier at this point, as is the B-1. AGM-158 is their primary armament (in a peer conflict).
 
IIRC, a 727 also went through Mach 1 (the autopilot decided to do a very quick descent). The aircraft was landed safely, but the airframe was damaged beyond repair and the engines were rendered no longer flightworthy.

A friend told me -- possibly accurately (I have no way of verifying his information, although I know him to be personally quite honest) -- that B-52s flying in the 1960s and 1970s had strain gauges along the wing spar to monitor stress levels, and they had warning lights in the cockpit for when the stress levels exceeded the values that didn't make the structures guys too nervous.
That's about the time the BUFF took on the low-level role and they did the flutter tests so it wouldn't surprise me that the strain gages were some type of test mod with orange wire. Never saw anything like that on the H models I flew.
 

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