Beeper as a Weapon

Yes, as already written, "Everybody can choose their side".
You have already displayed yours.
 
yahya said:
Considering the fake YouTube ads for pagers to get the Lebanese Hezbollah to buy them one may wonder who exactly paid for them? And if there is any real investigation into the September pager attacks anywhere, have the investigators requested such data?
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I'd assume the funder(s) will prove to be shell companies for the Mossad.
 

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yahya said:
Considering the fake YouTube ads for pagers to get the Lebanese Hezbollah to buy them one may wonder who exactly paid for them? And if there is any real investigation into the September pager attacks anywhere, have the investigators requested such data?
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What are you expecting to find in such investigation?
From my experience, the beeper operation was only unique in its visibility and the decision to deploy it.
Otherwise, it's pretty much your everyday, run-of-the-mill intelligence operation.
I've worked on some like these. The methods are pretty basic and well known by intelligence agencies worldwide.
 
NMaude said:
The sort of NDAs if you violate accidentally or intentionally earn you a government paid "Vacation" in Club "Fed"?
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Accidently usually just buys you an extra round of training and a note in your file. On purpose, well, either Club Fed or an apartment in Moscow.
 
yahya said:
Be more specific and share your experiences instead of vague speak.
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I can only explain to you the general process of a sabotage operation. Specifics about operations? No.

Intelligence agencies, at their core, collect intelligence. But they may often evolve to conduct other operations that are tied to said collection, much like a company expanding to apply expertise in more markets.
For example if you already developed the capability to put a microphone in someone's table, it won't take much to plant some explosives as well.

Using your intel collection capabilities, you identify a target's acquisition projects.
Then, your acquisition guys do work on learning supply times and options, and try to see if it's possible to tap into it. There are a lot of factors like whether delivery times are long enough for you to sabotage it.

Then you have experts in multiple fields trying to devise ways to sabotage said product for desired effects, which can be anywhere from data collection to a nice explosion. Their input is also critical to learning the feasibility of such project.

Once you decide the approach, you develop it and produce. This isn't a lightning fast process. Such things may usually take years.

Then it's back to your acquisition guys to gently put it back where it belongs, so the baddies can take it unsuspecting.

Due to the inherent sensitivity and complexity of such missions, a lot of times they'll be deemed non-feasible at the early stages, or fail in the later stages. It's not uncommon for a project to fail on the day of deployment.

Also due to the large number of ways to sabotage a product, there are a lot of people with different experiences in the field. For example offensive cyber devs will receive projects at a massive rate and will fail in a lot of them because the opportunities present for too short.
Those on the more analog side of things would often do work on projects that can last years.
 
Big_Zukini said:
I can only explain to you the general process of a sabotage operation. Specifics about operations? No.

Intelligence agencies, at their core, collect intelligence. But they may often evolve to conduct other operations that are tied to said collection, much like a company expanding to apply expertise in more markets.
For example if you already developed the capability to put a microphone in someone's table, it won't take much to plant some explosives as well.

Using your intel collection capabilities, you identify a target's acquisition projects.
Then, your acquisition guys do work on learning supply times and options, and try to see if it's possible to tap into it. There are a lot of factors like whether delivery times are long enough for you to sabotage it.

Then you have experts in multiple fields trying to devise ways to sabotage said product for desired effects, which can be anywhere from data collection to a nice explosion. Their input is also critical to learning the feasibility of such project.

Once you decide the approach, you develop it and produce. This isn't a lightning fast process. Such things may usually take years.

Then it's back to your acquisition guys to gently put it back where it belongs, so the baddies can take it unsuspecting.

Due to the inherent sensitivity and complexity of such missions, a lot of times they'll be deemed non-feasible at the early stages, or fail in the later stages. It's not uncommon for a project to fail on the day of deployment.

Also due to the large number of ways to sabotage a product, there are a lot of people with different experiences in the field. For example offensive cyber devs will receive projects at a massive rate and will fail in a lot of them because the opportunities present for too short.
Those on the more analog side of things would often do work on projects that can last years.
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From what you wrote it seems that you merely quoted the theory of intelligence work, but not how it really looks like as we could learn from numerous open sources. What about stealing taxpayers money en masse through elaborative schemes, overthrowing and establishing regimes, staging plots and cover-ups, operating a shadow government, controlling the narratives, serving powerful special interests and their agendas, engaging into a wide array of criminal syndicate activities, and, after all, harming large numbers of innocent people in their respective countries and worldwide?

The positive side of this forum is that a number of intel guys or wannabe intel operatives clearly disclosed their backgrounds and affiliation, and the way of thinking and internal culture of their organizations. That's a really valuable study.

Back to the pager affair, what is disgusting here, is that there seems to be an almost universal approval of black ops, which constitute flagrant violations of domestic and international laws. There is no indication of any real investigation on the matter eg. in Europe, where most of the deception took place. Does it mean that these European countries lost their sovereignty and are non-entities controlled by the spooks? It looks that there is a sharp decline from 2010, when there were at least some investigation into the Mahmoud al-Mabhouh death, and suspected individuals were apprehended. (Read eg. here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_al-Mabhouh). Has the world declined into lawlessness since then? This is really deplorable that the world is loosing humanity.
 
yahya said:
It's interesting to see how the world is being dismantled due to the lack of respect of the rule of law, and international and domestic law, and that there are therefore calls to lower below the level of the terrorists. Not to mention that there are instances, when renowned terrorists, who had pricey bounty on their head, are being backed by those who claim they are fighting terrorists.
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William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”

Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”

William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”

Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”

― Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons: A Play in Two Acts

Google 'Foucault's Boomerang' - essentially, it means what's used against them will eventually be used against you.
 
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yahya said:
From what you wrote it seems that you merely quoted the theory of intelligence work, but not how it really looks like as we could learn from numerous open sources. What about stealing taxpayers money en masse through elaborative schemes, overthrowing and establishing regimes, staging plots and cover-ups, operating a shadow government, controlling the narratives, serving powerful special interests and their agendas, engaging into a wide array of criminal syndicate activities, and, after all, harming large numbers of innocent people in their respective countries and worldwide?
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Yeah, real intelligence work is a lot more boring than that, sorry.
yahya said:
Back to the pager affair, what is disgusting here, is that there seems to be an almost universal approval of black ops, which constitute flagrant violations of domestic and international laws. There is no indication of any real investigation on the matter eg. in Europe, where most of the deception took place. Does it mean that these European countries lost their sovereignty and are non-entities controlled by the spooks? It looks that there is a sharp decline from 2010, when there were at least some investigation into the Mahmoud al-Mabhouh death, and suspected individuals were apprehended. (Read eg. here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_al-Mabhouh). Has the world declined into lawlessness since then? This is really deplorable that the world is loosing humanity.
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Just a few shenanigans here and there don't hurt anyone. Lighten up. Don't lose your nuts over this. Buncha people already did.
 
Rhinocrates said:
William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”

Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”

William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”

Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”

― Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons: A Play in Two Acts

Google 'Foucault's Boomerang' - essentially, it means what's used against them will eventually be used against you.
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There is another bottom in the story, which was best articulated by Hannah Arendt.
 

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Absolutely. Thanks to the fact that the archives are open now in numerous countries, some light was shed on them in the recent years.

If there is too much publicity, it means that the op was rather botched, and propaganda was employed to save the image, also of the perpetrators.
 
www.twz.com

Explosive-Laden Goggles Sent To Russian FPV Drone Operators

Russia is searching for the perpetrators of a scheme designed to blow up the heads of FPV drones operators, or at least induce fear of their kit.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

Russian officials are investigating a plot that allegedly sent explosive-laden first-person view (FPV) goggles to drone units in the hope they would detonate, killing or injuring the operator. It mirrors the mass attack Israel carried out against Hezbollah last September using thousands of explosive-packed pagers and walkie-talkies.
 
yahya said:
If there is too much publicity, it means that the op was rather botched, and propaganda was employed to save the image, also of the perpetrators.
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Some sabotage is visible. Some less so. Doesn't have any bearing on the operation's effectiveness.
In peace time or long wars, you'd want to thoroughly sabotage an enemy in ways less detectable but which yield lower general effect individually.
In wartime, against time sensitive targets like missile launchers or HQs, blowing stuff up is usually the way to go.

The pagers and walkie-talkies are probably not the only things set up to explode, but they're probably the only ones needed to be activated to deliver such monumental whoop-ass.
 
Rhinocrates said:
www.twz.com

Explosive-Laden Goggles Sent To Russian FPV Drone Operators

Russia is searching for the perpetrators of a scheme designed to blow up the heads of FPV drones operators, or at least induce fear of their kit.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

Russian officials are investigating a plot that allegedly sent explosive-laden first-person view (FPV) goggles to drone units in the hope they would detonate, killing or injuring the operator. It mirrors the mass attack Israel carried out against Hezbollah last September using thousands of explosive-packed pagers and walkie-talkies.
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It's an easy mistake to make, put the explosives in the goggles instead of the drone. If anchors can be put in the wrong place then so can explosives.:cool:
 
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Grey Havoc said:
www.telegraph.co.uk

Israel-Gaza latest: Hamas prepares for return to war as ceasefire concerns grow

Hamas have ordered its senior leaders in Gaza to stop using mobile phones to hide their locations and Israeli military called up reservists as both sides prepare for a restart of fighting in Gaza.
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
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I understand why it may remind of the beeper attack but the IDF also thoroughly infiltrated its adversaries with intelligence gathering devices.
If you're some random terrorist organization fighting against a western country, in 9/10 cases it'd be better to avoid using a phone. A lot of them are using slaves and such, so couriers are a viable solution.
 

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