BAe Tempest and other pre-GCAP studies

[Grey Havoc]

Dassault’s Trappier blames politics for demise of Anglo-French fighter project

Dassault chief executive Eric Trappier regrets the breakdown of the UK-France defence partnership that would have seen his company team with BAE Systems on a next-generation fighter.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Deltafan]

From French weekly magazine Air & Cosmos n°2691 from 05.06.2020, page 3, rubric "Confidential" :

The British Tempest fighter program does not leave Washington indifferent, who sees it as a way to weaken the Scaf program carried by France, Germany and Spain in other countries of the European Union. Suddenly, Tempest could well benefit from financial support from the United States. Funding that will go hand in hand with the integration of American equipment in the future "bubble" of which Tempest will be one of the tools. A "bubble" in which Eastern European countries will be offered to participate. Union is a fight.

No original source mentioned.

 

[TomcatViP]

Source: Trappiér paranoid mind?

Sharing sub-systems among fleet is an openly voiced priority for the next Gen of allied fleet to build a resilient and affordable ecosystem similar to airliners.

From Australia to Japan and westward to the US across Europe (as a geographical reference). EoA.

 

[Deltafan]

Source: Trappiér paranoid mind.

Your source ?

 

[TomcatViP]

Corrected.

 

[shedofdread]

UK keeps Tempest programme on target, despite downturn

As the last decade was nearing an end, the UK unveiled and then expanded an ambitious programme to develop a new class of future combat air systems with the potential to bolster not only its military capability, but also the fortunes of its defence industry.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Mike Pryce]

The last decade! Makes me feel even older...

 

[Grey Havoc]

I know what you mean.

 

[fightingirish]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1282619653580357633

View: https://twitter.com/UKDefJournal/status/1282619653580357633?s=20

 

[Sundog]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1282619653580357633

View: https://twitter.com/UKDefJournal/status/1282619653580357633?s=20

Hey, isn't that the same factory in those Syd Mead paintings for the Lockheed "ATF" from the 80's?

 

[helmutkohl]

^ has the tempest shape been finalized?

 

[Flyaway]

There's an interactive 3D model on the RAF website of Tempest and LANCA.

Tempest | Royal Air Force

Tempest is the RAF's next generation combat aircraft, coming into service from 2035 to replace the Typhoon. Discover Tempest's game-changing technologies and capabilities for yourself.

www.raf.mod.uk

 

[helmutkohl]

nice awesome link

but the 3d Model does have significant differences. its a lot less fatty and more sleek compared to the mock up

here's some pics so everyone can see. also note the bay doors. they look a bit tiny

over all I like the look a lot more here. maybe more than that FCAS mock up by dassault, although i like the airbus one more

 

[TomcatViP]

Yes, huge wings. If those verticals are not collapsible, why that for a fighter?

 

[FighterJock]

nice awesome link

but the 3d Model does have significant differences. its a lot less fatty and more sleek compared to the mock up

here's some pics so everyone can see. also note the bay doors. they look a bit tiny

over all I like the look a lot more here. maybe more than that FCAS mock up by dassault, although i like the airbus one more

The Tempest design has certainly improved over the first design that was released at the Farnborough airshows couple of years ago though it still has a way to go before the Tempest design is finally frozen. My judgement on this latest design, out of ten stars, I would currently give it five out of ten.

 

[Hood]

I've seen more well polished fan art to be honest.
I'm not going to get excited about a 3D model for a public relations page. Anyone in the PR department could have been asked to knock that together.

 

[red admiral]

I've seen more well polished fan art to be honest.

As a 3D interactive graphic embedded in a web page (similar to other aircraft on the RAF) website, it's obviously not going to be very high resolution.

 

[Sundog]

I've seen much better interactive models. The Tempest model at that site looks like it was modeled by Fisher-Price. I wouldn't trust anything there, other than the what's written. Having said that, the large wing makes sense. Low wing loading, low structural weight, large internal volume. Everything you would want in a fighter wing.

 

[TomcatViP]

And lots of drag even at moderate alpha!

 

[DrRansom]

I think that future fighters will trade maneuverability for range and payload and leave dog-fighting to missiles and UCAVs.

 

[helmutkohl]

wow I keep posting pictures of the FB-22 to compare it with
but this site keeps deleting it.
is posting pics of the FB-22 against site policies or something

 

[Grey Havoc]

Could be a glitch with the image upload/pasting limits.

 

[flateric]

is posting pics of the FB-22 against site policies or something

a). Because they have nothing to do with Tempest.
b). Because amateur renderings you are trying to post has nothing to do with the real FB-22 configuration.

 

[Sundog]

And lots of drag even at moderate alpha!

Actually, the opposite is true for a given weight, but thanks for playing!

 

[helmutkohl]

Future of Tempest fighter jet remains up in the air

Two years ago at the biennial Farnborough defence and aerospace jamboree, Britain’s military industrial political complex revealed the future.The UK would be committing an initial £2 billion to the design and development of an independent, fighter-bomber aircraft to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[Grey Havoc]

UK’s Tempest air defence project set for £50m Saab investment (ft.com)

Sweden’s leading defence contractor will this week announce plans to invest an initial £50m in the UK to develop technology for future combat air systems. The move by Saab provides a timely boost to the UK-led Tempest future fighter project as the Ministry of Defence weighs its spending priorities for a strategic defence review that is expected later this year. Industry is hoping for a government commitment to the future combat air requirement in the review, people close to the subject said. Saab’s decision marks an intensification of its partnership with Britain’s BAE Systems on the Tempest programme, which also includes Leonardo of Italy. Tempest was launched in 2018 after France and Germany opted for their own new-generation combat air programme without the UK. The project is looking at a suite of technologies to be used in a combat air system, which could involve manned and unmanned aircraft, drones and laser weapons. Saab’s investment comes as Ben Wallace, defence secretary, is expected on Monday to announce commitments from UK-based companies to be suppliers to Tempest. These include GKN, Thales UK, Qinetiq, Martin-Baker and others.

Micael Johansson, Saab’s chief executive, said his company intended to set up a research centre in the UK to be close to BAE Systems’ Tempest teams, which are based in Lancashire. The investment was proof of his company’s commitment to the UK and the programme, he stressed. “Combat air capability is extremely important for us and a security interest for Sweden,” he said. “This is absolutely a sign that it is critically important to us to be part of this combat air development. It is a sign of how important the UK is to us.” Saab, maker of the Gripen combat jet, employs more than 300 people in the UK and has long been a supplier to all three armed services. The number of jobs to be created by the £50m investment, which will focus on developing sensor and aeronautics technology, had not yet been decided, the company said.

People working on the Tempest programme said the industrial collaboration was working well, despite the constraints of the coronavirus pandemic. “We are focusing on how we are going to operate rather than what we are going to be doing. Where you get delays is if you don’t sort out that construct early on,” said one senior Tempest executive. The project is expected to submit a business case for the programme by the end of this year, when the Ministry of Defence would be expected to make a decision on further funding.

 

[kaiserd]

Sweden firms up FCAS partnership with UK, but no commitment to Tempest

Sweden has firmed up its memorandum of understanding (MOU) with the UK on the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) programme, although there remains no commitment to join the...

www.janes.com

To clarify the (not entirely visible) headline Saab firms up technological partnership but no commitment to Tempest.

 

[TomcatViP]

(Cross-posting FCAS/Tempest)

Good analysis of the state of affair (but I fear for Richard audience in France).

Europe On Course for Two Future Combat Programs | AIN

While many see a single European FCAS program being the best way forward, national ambitions are suggesting that this will not happen any time soon.

www.ainonline.com

 

[Flyaway]

More industrial partnerships announced.

https://aviationweek.com/ad-week/trilateral-tempest-expands-industrial-base

 

[vonstroem]

Just stumbled upon this.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi8YVn2gtBE

 

[GARGEAN]

That sure looked pretty.

 

[Flyaway]

Seeing that reminds me Is the Tempest meant to use Fluidic Thrust Vectoring as the Taranis was developing?

 

[Grey Havoc]

Seeing that reminds me Is the Tempest meant to use Fluidic Thrust Vectoring as the Taranis was developing?

You would wonder.

 

[Ejajjs]

BAE Systems has revealed images of the UK’s Tempest future combat aircraft undergoing windtunnel testing at its Warton site in Lancashire earlier this year.


BAE identifies the Tempest platform’s battery, power and energy management characteristics as key to supporting the use of future technologies such as laser directed-energy weapons. “There’s a huge requirement to dissipate heat”, the company notes, describing onboard power requirements as “comparable to a Boeing 787”.

Source:flightglobal

 

[stealthflanker]

I'm curious on what they had in mind for Laser.

250 KW of power with 20 cm of "laser head" would allow engagement of aircraft target ("hardness" of about :25 KJ/sqcm) at 5 km for 10 seconds of engagement time. It would require about 625 KW or about 937.5 Hp shaft power from the engine, and generator capacity of 781.25 KVA. If 90% of the heat have to be dissipated one could easily look on requirement of at least 560 KW of cooling capacity.

 

[Trident]

Bigger...

 

[Flyaway]

Because of how much this project will likely cost how many more international partners at a minimum does the U.K. need to sign up to make it more likely to progress to reality?

 

[flateric]

and even bigger

 

[Ejajjs]

Reaction Engines Ltd and Rolls-Royce plc today announced a new strategic partnership agreement to develop high-speed aircraft propulsion systems and explore applications for Reaction Engines’ thermal management technology within civil and defence aerospace gas turbine engines and hybrid-electric systems.

“This strategic partnership is about developing market ready applications for Reaction Engines’ technology in next generation engines and is a significant step forward for our technology commercialisation plans,” said Mark Thomas, Chief Executive of Reaction Engines. Our proprietary heat exchanger technology delivers incredible heat transfer capabilities at extremely low weight and a compact size. We look forward to expanding our international collaboration with Rolls-Royce, a global leader in power systems, to bring to market a range of applications that will transform the performance and efficiency of aircraft engines, enable high speed – supersonic and hypersonic – flight and support the drive towards more sustainable aviation through innovative new technologies.”

 

[red admiral]

Because of how much this project will likely cost how many more international partners at a minimum does the U.K. need to sign up to make it more likely to progress to reality?

Why does adding more partners necessarily make it cost less?