BAC/Sud Aviation Concorde - Development, Variants, Projects

[Perfect_Zero]

According to a couple of online sources there were at least four planned production Concorde models, and three were produced. I believe that the differences were just superficial changes to the interiors similar to how Boeing once identified dozens of models of airliners customized to their customers' preferences.

Concorde 100 - basic model
Concorde 101 - variant customized for Air France
Concorde 102 - variant customized for British Airways
Concorde 103 - variant customized for Pan-Am (not built)

Does anyone have any sources to confirm this? I would like to know if Aerospatiale/BAC had planned other variants for those other airlines that eventually cancelled their orders like Pan-Am did.

Cheers!

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

I remember reading somewhere that a Super Caravelle/Concorde variant was proposed to the French Airforce as a missile carrier, however, I forgot where I got it from. I shall let you know when I find out.

 

[Deltafan]

Hi,

found this photo today. As some of the links of the topic are dead, it's maybe already known.

It's an ONERA photo from the end of this website, about an ONERA research Center in Algeria : http://alger-roi.fr/Alger/aviation/pdf/5_soufflerie_aia_alger.pdf

It shows a Wind-model (1961) of the Avion de Transport Supersonique ATS 60, pre-project of what became Concorde. It was the last model studied by this Center.

I didn't know that there was an ONERA Center in Algeria.

 

[hesham]

From , 50th Anniversary Edition,Concorde

 

[Archibald]

A friend of mine has this beautiful print of a Concorde in Continental livery by Paul Lengellé :
View attachment 629935
Apparently Lengellé did a bunch of Continental Concorde images.

Paul Lengellé was a terrific artist, plus his life encompassed most of the 20th Century (1908 - 1993). A talented person living at the right moment.

 

[nuuumannn]

SABENA Concorde model on display in Brussels.

 

[nuuumannn]

The Noses have it. F-WTSS, G-BSST, G-ADXN and G-BOAA.

 

[hesham]

From Icare 1964.

 

[famvburg]

A user called Vega ECM made the following interesting statement at the bottom of a related thread at https://forum.keypublishing.com/sho...e-for-the-RAF-(Zombie-Thread-from-2006)/page2:

"A good few years ago I was in the Concorde archive legitimately looking for something but couldn't resist from typing 'Military Concorde' into the search. Only two documents came up;- the first dated 1970, was a study on how much of military value could be learnt by the Chinese if they bought a few, but the second dated 1974, was a proposal to the RAF for military versions. This report was about 40 pages and detailed 3 potential versions;- The first was a transport version , a drawing shows a swing nose and landrovers driving down a long ramp. This proposal was covered by just 2 of the 40 pages and really had very little detail. The next is a supersonic strike aircraft. A drawing shows 3 nuclear strike missiles (looking a bit like AGM-69 SRAM's) within the fuselage launched on angled tubes exiting the fuselage underside. This proposal runs to about 10 pages. There's quite a bit of info on mission profile, tactical equipment fit etc. The third proposal is for a tactical recon version. This occupies the majority of the report. Lots of info on camera / radar / eves dropping kit / decoys / ECM mission profiles etc. I would suggest the number of pages in the report probably represents the relative interest from the customer.

Good stuff, all history now."

In the late 1970s I believe Concorde was seriously looked at again as a RAF VIP transport (in particular as an alert evacuation aircraft for members of the Royal Family in the event of a nuclear exchange). The last Military Concorde project confirmed to date was a proposal to procure Concordes for the RAF as Backfire (and later in addition Blackjack) simulators. First proposed in the early 1980s. There have been reports of a EW/ELINT proposal from around the mid-1980s though.

That is interesting! Were they to have been given “aggressor” - type paint schemes and be operated by the RAF?

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

I remember reading somewhere that a Super Caravelle/Concorde variant was proposed to the French Airforce as a missile carrier, however, I forgot where I got it from. I shall let you know when I find out.

The Super Caravelle is mentioned in Jean-Christophe Carbonel's French Secret Projects 2, in the chapter about the Minerve program.

 

[Grey Havoc]

That is interesting! Were they to have been given “aggressor” - type paint schemes and be operated by the RAF?

Yes on the latter. Don't know for certain on the former though it seems likely.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
Concorde would, of course, eventually acquire a ‘drooping’ nose, but less well-known is that ONERA suggested fitting a moving tail and end fuselage to the Super Caravelle, as shown by this patent drawing.
https://www.key.aero/article/concorde-french-projects

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

 

[Archibald]

A user called Vega ECM made the following interesting statement at the bottom of a related thread at https://forum.keypublishing.com/sho...e-for-the-RAF-(Zombie-Thread-from-2006)/page2:

"A good few years ago I was in the Concorde archive legitimately looking for something but couldn't resist from typing 'Military Concorde' into the search. Only two documents came up;- the first dated 1970, was a study on how much of military value could be learnt by the Chinese if they bought a few, but the second dated 1974, was a proposal to the RAF for military versions. This report was about 40 pages and detailed 3 potential versions;- The first was a transport version , a drawing shows a swing nose and landrovers driving down a long ramp. This proposal was covered by just 2 of the 40 pages and really had very little detail. The next is a supersonic strike aircraft. A drawing shows 3 nuclear strike missiles (looking a bit like AGM-69 SRAM's) within the fuselage launched on angled tubes exiting the fuselage underside. This proposal runs to about 10 pages. There's quite a bit of info on mission profile, tactical equipment fit etc. The third proposal is for a tactical recon version. This occupies the majority of the report. Lots of info on camera / radar / eves dropping kit / decoys / ECM mission profiles etc. I would suggest the number of pages in the report probably represents the relative interest from the customer.

Good stuff, all history now."

In the late 1970s I believe Concorde was seriously looked at again as a RAF VIP transport (in particular as an alert evacuation aircraft for members of the Royal Family in the event of a nuclear exchange). The last Military Concorde project confirmed to date was a proposal to procure Concordes for the RAF as Backfire (and later in addition Blackjack) simulators. First proposed in the early 1980s. There have been reports of a EW/ELINT proposal from around the mid-1980s though.

That is interesting! Were they to have been given “aggressor” - type paint schemes and be operated by the RAF?

Smells like Tupolev many Tu-144 variants detailed elsewhere on this forum. Except the Soviet Air Force and Navy politely told Tupolev "we don't want your shitty aircraft, so thank you !"

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Super Caravelle.
https://testpilot.ru/france/aerospatiale/sc/

 

[hesham]

Hi,

also from Flightglobal;

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1964/1964%20-%201705.html

From, Revista de Aeronautica y Astronautica 1964.

 

[sgeorges4]

the british prototype GBTSS as a serial production cutaway model and a iran air concorde

from http://www.dlcutawaymodels.com/2018/04/16/concorde-prototype-1-25th-scale-cutaway-model/

from http://cockpit.francois.pagesperso-orange.fr/art111.html

 

[sgeorges4]

odd air france agency model displaying 4 doors when the real aircraft have 3 on both sides(and other air france agency model got 3 doors as well so I don't know why this one has 4)

CONCORDE AIR FRANCE. Grande maquette d’agence,... - Lot 247 - Boisgirard - Antonini

Toutes les informations sur le lot CONCORDE AIR FRANCE. Grande maquette d’agence,... - Lot 247 - Boisgirard - Antonini

www.boisgirard-antonini.com

 

[sgeorges4]

pan am livery I haven't sen before

Aeronautics | Sale n°2466 | Lot n°459 | Artcurial

CONCORDE Maquette d'agence Pan Am au 1/36e, en résine, sur piètement Long. : 170 cm. (67 in.), Env. : 74 cm. (29 in.) Estimation 3 000 - 4 000 €

www.artcurial.com

 

[sgeorges4]

Advertising showing the 1962/1963 project:

source: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/392061688833?hash=item5b48b29c01:g:nV8AAOSw5P9bHMFU

 

[sgeorges4]

Verry interesting french report on concorde development and its successor (guess I know why I'm going to get more than one airfix vintage concorde now) https://www.researchgate.net/public..._de_transport_supersonique_futur_JPM_4-ISP_31

 

[jrlucariny]

View: https://youtu.be/rETNFml3m7c

 

[masimaes]

do you know that the concorde could supercruise? it only needed afterburners to get through the transonic stage then it would supercruise at mach 2.2. also, with it being a commerical airliner the concorde has the most time flying supersonic then all of the other jets combined

 

[Yellow Palace]

nly needed afterburners to get through the transonic stage

It didn't actually need them, there was enough dry thrust to get up to cruising speed, but reheat worked out more fuel efficient.

 

[Archibald]

Even at 185 mt MTOW Concorde had a pretty good T/W ratio. Those four Olympus in the back were quite amazing turbomachinery.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Aérospatiale-BAC Concorde: Men and their toys (XLI).

The various wing shapes tested during the definition of the Concorde design at the Royal Aircraft Establishment (Bedford), 1964. The one chosen with “Mr. Hanson”, then Director of RAE.

elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1598577397615427584

View: https://twitter.com/clark_aviation/status/1598577397615427584?s=20&t=nsK-Z3mA_Tlcl_wueYljQw

 

[TomcatViP]

This is the only picture of Concorde flying in close formation. The image was taken by Adrian Meredith on Christmas Eve December 24th 1985

British Airways Flew 4 Concorde's, G-BOAA, G-BOAC, G-BOAB & G-BOAG

"This was one of the most important and exciting photographic assignments I have ever undertaken, and very prestigious for Concorde. The date was Christmas Eve December 24th 1985; this was the only day possible that we could photograph four of the Concordes together, as they were not flying commercially that day. The Photography was to promote and commemorate the 10-year anniversary of Concordes commercial service. After 10 years of service the BA Concorde's had 71,000 supersonic flying hours.

Many hours were spent at the briefing sessions, to ensure the formations were tidy to military precision. Different formations were discussed, and decided upon.

The swan, the diamond and the echelon, to ensure all went to plan. Nothing like this had ever been done before commercially. Concorde Senior Captains Brian Walpole and John Cook were experienced pilots and had a wealth of experience of flying in formation, from their days in the RAF.

My task was to capture in essence the group formations. The flight plan was to take-off from Heathrow, fly to Filton in Bristol, the home of Concorde, down the Bristol Channel, and return to London, flying at a height of around 18,000 feet.

The Lear Jet had to be fitted with optically corrective glass in the windows, which wouldn’t distort the camera’s image. We were first to take off in the Lear Jet, from London Heathrow, and special permission had to be granted for each Concorde to take-off every 30 seconds, in succession. This had never been done before!

The weather was very dark and gloomy as it was December time the sun was low and watery. We rose above, and circled over the clouds, to brighter skies, and as we looked down, we saw each Concorde pop through the clouds like a firing bullet. After the 4th aircraft had emerged we quickly descended and took chase at full throttle to try and catch them up. They started to manoeuvre and steadily flew into position for the first formation, lying in diamond, then echelon and swan formation. " Adrian Meredith

Sourced from LinkedIn

 

[hesham]

Hi,

also from Flightglobal;

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1964/1964%20-%201705.html

From Aeroplane 1962,

the plane of development.

 

[sgeorges4]

From Icare 1964.

Hello, it's been a while but I got 2 question:
Was the TCS suppose to have a bigger diameter fuselage than the normal concorde?
In the airliner world from 2019 on the concorde, there's an interesting pic page 34 showing the prototype with alternative liveries, do we know when and where it was taken and if pics of the models exist?
Thanks for your answers!

 

[hesham]

From Icare 1964.

Hello, it's been a while but I got 2 question:
Was the TCS suppose to have a bigger diameter fuselage than the normal concorde?
In the airliner world from 2019 on the concorde, there's an interesting pic page 34 showing the prototype with alternative liveries, do we know when and where it was taken and if pics of the models exist?
Thanks for your answers!

Sorry my dear Sgeorges,

I have no idea,but I will send the whole article when I go back to my home.

 

[sgeorges4]

ok on the airliner world pic, it's interesting to see the prototype is painted in metal as a whole while the airline models are in white/metal.

 

[sgeorges4]

In the book "building concorde", there's a mention of multiple variants of"classic formula" TCS with different fuselage length ranging from 33m to 40m. I wonder if drawings of other variants beside the 40m exist and if we know the wings length for the shortest one.
Thanks for your answers, I intend to convert a heller caravelle in that

 

[sgeorges4]

A bunch of wind turbine models of concorde wings and M-wings projects

The source: https://blog.firedrake.org/archive/2017/03/Farnborough_Air_Sciences_Trust.html

 

[hesham]

From Air Pictorial 1964,

the Improved Concorde as we talked about it before.

 

[Archibald]

Sorry no idea if that has been posted before. Four technical documents related to advanced Olympus development, 1975 and beyond (so - evidently related to Concorde B)

Plus some Flight International stuff.

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1-12-1985.