Argentinian Unbuilt Projects

[NoBarrelRolls]

View attachment 635407

I wasn’t aware of the T-34 with the Aztazou engine, that would have been an interesting project.

 

[Arjen]

Huanquero, Bombi, Mamboreta, IA-68 ATL and Lancaster with PAT-1 ASM

Lancaster with PAT-1 missile - the missile looks very much like a Henschel Hs 293, a surprising combination.
Do you have more information about PAT-1?

 

[Erdosain]

The IA-X-59 was an early attempt by the FMA to develop a RPV, or drone, at the request of the FAA. Only one propeller-powered prototype was built, but there were studies of turbojet and turbofan powered variants, which did not pass the preliminary study stage.

Extract from the book "Military Factory of Airplanes, Chronicles and Testimonies" by Angel Cesar Arreguez

FMA I.A. X 59 Dronner

Radio-controlled target plane, also called TABANO. It made its presentation flight on December 9, 1972 in Serrezuela (Córdoba). Could be used with remote sensors, cameras, camcorders and as target. A prototype was made.

Features: 45 hp MC CULLOCH engine and fixed pitch propeller; fuel capacity 45 l; maximum speed 340 km/h; service ceiling 5900 m; flight time 1 h; length 4,070 m; wingspan 3.6 m; wing area 2.25 m; maximum weight 160 Kg.

 

[NoBarrelRolls]

Huanquero, Bombi, Mamboreta, IA-68 ATL and Lancaster with PAT-1 ASM

Lancaster with PAT-1 missile - the missile looks very much like a Henschel Hs 293, a surprising combination.
Do you have more information about PAT-1?

Arjen, the PAT-1 was developed by a group of former Henschel engineers who worked on the Hs 293. These engineers, were hired by Fabricaciones Militares (FM) after the war.

The PAT-1 was an air to surface missile with two bodies, very similar to the Hs 293. The main body was 3.45 mts long, and had the same shape as a small airplane and it contain the explosive warhead, together with the guidance system, and engine. The second body, shaped as a cylinder contained the propellants for the rocket engine (oxygen and methanol).

During the testing of one PAT-1, on October 20, 1953, Avro Lancaster B-036 suffered an engine failure crashing in the River Plate (Río de la Plata), perishing Werner Baumbach (former Luftwaffe commander of the Kampfgeschwader 200) who was at the bomb controlling station, the co-pilot Henrici (former Messersmith test pilot) and an argentinian Air Force flight mechanic named Viola. The only survivors were pilot Muhllenberg and radio operator Lieberwith who where rescued by the Argentinian Coast Guard.

Development continued until 1956, when cost become to high.

 

[Erdosain]

Huanquero, Bombi, Mamboreta, IA-68 ATL and Lancaster with PAT-1 ASM

Lancaster with PAT-1 missile - the missile looks very much like a Henschel Hs 293, a surprising combination.
Do you have more information about PAT-1?

 

[Erdosain]

Second Part, with another missile:

FMA I.Ae.24 Calquin launching an Air to Air Missile Tabano

 

[NoBarrelRolls]

In my opinion, “Las Alas de Perón” has to be the most comprehensive book about the Golden age of Argentinian aviation industry.

 

[dan_inbox]

FMA I.Ae.24 Calquin launching an Air to Air Missile Tabano

In 1989, there was an Argentinian missile called FAS-320 Tabano, which was an air-to-ground rocket with a length 6.3m, a 500kg warhead, and a range of 100km.
Is it this one, or were there two different Tabano missiles?

 

[Erdosain]

Vought Pampa 2000 - America's Trainer

Vought Pampa 2000 - America's Trainer

Vought se asoció con la Fábrica Militar de Aviones Argentina para comercializar el IA-63 Pampa como Pampa 2000 en la competencia JPATS

nobarrelrolls.blogspot.com

 

[Erdosain]

Revista Nacional de Aeronáutica, June, 1962.

PART 1

 

[Erdosain]

Revista Nacional de Aeronáutica, June, 1962.

PART 2

 

[Erdosain]

Revista Nacional de Aeronáutica, June, 1962.

PART 3

 

[nuuumannn]

Huanquero, I.Ae-22 DL and Guarani at the MNA.

 

[Erdosain]

Hello.
Are there any projects to make aircraft for the Navy or for use on Aircraft Carriers?
The ARA Independencia was purchased in 1958-9 and the ARA Veinticinco de Mayo in 1968-9.
Regards

Hello,

No, there was an attempt to sell Guarani to the Navy but it did not prosper.

It must be borne in mind that from 1930 to 1983, Argentina was governed most of the time by military boards that overthrew democratic governments.

The FMA was created expressly to equip the FAA (Argentine Air Force) with its own aircraft, and to maintain its native and foreign aircraft.

Unfortunately, the FMA was like another air base within the FAA, with a Brigadier in charge, who changed every so many years according to promotions, and each Brigadier that arrived managed it as an air base, without long-term planning.

The Navy had its own maintenance centers.

Just now from 2014/15 they sent a P-3C Orion plane from the Argentine Navy for the first time in history.

To summarize, the FMA only designed planes for the FAA and the Navy would never buy or commission the design of an aircraft.

Best regards.

What a pity. That cuts off quite a few lines of research that I had been developing.
I was hoping to find designs or prototypes, like this DL variant offered to the Navy:

Anyway, thanks for the answer and your posts!
Regards

the Argentine Navy preferred to buy the North American SNJ/AT-6 Texan.

In record time they entered service, so much so that the first flight took place at the Comandante Espora Naval Base in mid-September 1946.
Thus began a stage of Naval Aviation that lasted until the late 1970s.

With a total of 125 copies, the AT-6 / SNJ Texan was not only the most numerous aircraft, but also one of the most emblematic of Naval Aviation.

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Nueva Publicación

Espacio creado para difundir aquellas historias no tan conocidas de la aviación Argentina y regional.

linea-ala.blogspot.com

 

[Erdosain]

FMA IA-43 Pulqui III. Digital art by Alejandro Klichowski

 

[Erdosain]

FMA I.Ae.27 Pulqui - Part 1

 

[Erdosain]

FMA I.Ae.27 Pulqui - Part 2

 

[GTX]

FMA IA-43 Pulqui III. Digital art by Alejandro Klichowski

Was this before or after the HAL HF-24 Marut?

 

[Erdosain]

FMA IA-43 Pulqui III. Digital art by Alejandro Klichowski

Was this before or after the HAL HF-24 Marut?

Before, it was a Kurt Tank's project. He started to design the Marut in Argentina like Pulqui III

 

[Antonio]

Was this before or after the HAL HF-24 Marut?

Justo Miranda included the story of Kurt Tank's post WWII activities on his book "Focke Wulf Jet Fighters"

 

[NoBarrelRolls]

A great insight about the IA-37 designed by Reimar Horten.

https://www.zona-militar.com/2020/0...-busqueda-por-atravesar-la-barrera-del-sonido

 

[Erdosain]

The prototype of the I.Ae. 30 Ñamcú (small eagle in the Mapuche language) made its first flight on July 17, 1947, piloted by first lieutenant Edmundo O. Weiss. This project was born in June 1947 when the technical team of the Special Projects Division 2 of the Aerotechnical Institute headed by the Italian Engineer Pallaveccino began work on a new twin-engine interceptor named Ñamcu being designated I.Ae.30.

It was intended to be a escort fighter of the recently incorporated Avro Lincoln and Avro Lancaster bombers. It was equipped with two 203 5hp Rolls Royce Merlin 134-135 engines with which it could reach a height of 6400 meters and a speed of 740 km/h. These characteristics allowed it to unite the Córdoba (FMA) and Buenos Aires (Airport) in just 55 minutes in flight on August 7, 1948 at an average speed of 648 km/h being piloted by First Lieutenant Edmundo O. Weiss.

The FAA had planned to produce some 210 units but the project was never completed due to two reasons
1) An agreement with the Rolls Royce company in England for the delivery of 430 Engines and their parts was not reached
2) The Aeronautical Secretariat decides cancel the project because it decides to give priority to the impulse of the Reactor Factory after obtaining the manufacturing license of the Rolls Royce Nene Turbojet for the series of I.Ae.33 that had already begun to materialize with the group of German engineers headed by Kurt Tank.

A single prototype was built and it had been assigned a provisional registration I-101. in the year 1952 was destroyed in an accident According to the FMA Historical Book locates the first flight on July 17, 1948, other authors on July 18 of the same year we opted for the first version.

Sources Military Aircraft Factory Chronicles and Testimonies Ángel César Arreguez, Aircraft Guide 1912-2015 Eduardo J. Amores Oliver, DEH

Aviones en Argentina

 

[Erdosain]

A large number of unpublished drawings of different FMA projects

Todo sobre la FMA

Se parece al Short Skyvan.... Según cuenta ING. Olmedo, a cargo de este proyecto, en una entrevista a la revista Alas, el Shorts Skyvan se parece al IA-52, porque el Skyvan es posterior y porque las autoridades de ese entonces en la FMA le permitieron a gente de Shorts que estaba de visita en...

www.zona-militar.com

 

[Erdosain]

FMA IA-52

 

[Erdosain]

FMA IA-47, turboprop and turbojet variants

 

[Erdosain]

Different transport planes projected at the FMA, which did not have an assigned project number

 

[Erdosain]

Two pre-Pucara designs made by two different design teams competing with each other

 

[Erdosain]

Drawings of FMA I.Ae.33 Pulqui II

 

[Erdosain]

 

[Erdosain]

Pensando en el Pampa Navalizado

Por Carlos Borda Bettolli en base a entrevistas y recopilación de documentación de la DIMA / Área Material Córdoba / FMA. Agradecimientos: Al Comodoro de

www.zona-militar.com

 

[VictorXL188]

I remember coming across a mention somewhere (unfortunately I don't recall the source) that there was allegedly a Pucara design study with jet engines. Does anybody have more information?

Martin

Just to confirm this, as Apophenia said in his post, the twin Astafan variant was indeed planned as a trainer. Source is from Janes All The World 74-75. Once I get my scanner up and running I'll post the GA drawing along with the small piece of text on the project.

 

[Justo Miranda]

In my opinion, “Las Alas de Perón” has to be the most comprehensive book about the Golden age of Argentinian aviation industry.

Llevo esperando trece años a que aparezca un editor con el suficiente... "right stuff" para hacer justicia al extraordinario trabajo de Burzaco, publicando sus libros en ingles.
Tan dificil y arriesgado seria hacer una edicion en Amazon-Kindle?
Es una cuestion de ideologia?.
Que problema puede haber en publicar un trabajo tan tecnico con background historico de todos conocido? yo no he encontrado ningun obstaculo a mis publicaciones en el mundo anglosajon.
Un saludo a todos y mis respetos por los demas autores.

 

[NoBarrelRolls]

In my opinion, “Las Alas de Perón” has to be the most comprehensive book about the Golden age of Argentinian aviation industry.

Llevo esperando trece años a que aparezca un editor con el suficiente... "right stuff" para hacer justicia al extraordinario trabajo de Burzaco, publicando sus libros en ingles.
Tan dificil y arriesgado seria hacer una edicion en Amazon-Kindle?
Es una cuestion de ideologia?.
Que problema puede haber en publicar un trabajo tan tecnico con background historico de todos conocido? yo no he encontrado ningun obstaculo a mis publicaciones en el mundo anglosajon.
Un saludo a todos y mis respeto por los demas autores.

Well, I agree a 100% with you Justo. Maybe it should be a spanish speaking author that translates Burzaco’s works into english

 

[Erdosain]

I remember coming across a mention somewhere (unfortunately I don't recall the source) that there was allegedly a Pucara design study with jet engines. Does anybody have more information?

Martin

Just to confirm this, as Apophenia said in his post, the twin Astafan variant was indeed planned as a trainer. Source is from Janes All The World 74-75. Once I get my scanner up and running I'll post the GA drawing along with the small piece of text on the project.

There were three projects powered by Astafan turbojets

The first two are from 1969, when the project was still known as Delfin / Dolphin :

"A twin-jet aircraft for photography and aerial observation".

"A twin-jet aircraft for photography, observation and light transport

Both did not pass the preliminary draft stage

Then in 1970 Dr Reimar Horten presented the project of a Pucará for advanced training missions and as a replacement for the Morane Saulnier MS 760 Paris. This variante was shortened in length and span.

Obviously this project did not arouse interest in the FAA as a replacement for the Morane Saulnier MS 760 Paris used for advanced training, since it did not advance beyond the theoretical studies and preliminary calculations of weights and performances.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/argentinian-unbuilt-projects.211/page-4

A note about the Pucara powered by tubojets that I wrote a few years ago. It is in Spanish:

Los IA-58 Pucará a reaccion

Por Gonzalo Sebastian Rengel Graficos: Alejandro Klichowski El imaginario popular argentino siempre resalta el gran logro tecnológico que fueron los

www.zona-militar.com

 

[Erdosain]

In my opinion, “Las Alas de Perón” has to be the most comprehensive book about the Golden age of Argentinian aviation industry.

Llevo esperando trece años a que aparezca un editor con el suficiente... "right stuff" para hacer justicia al extraordinario trabajo de Burzaco, publicando sus libros en ingles.
Tan dificil y arriesgado seria hacer una edicion en Amazon-Kindle?
Es una cuestion de ideologia?.
Que problema puede haber en publicar un trabajo tan tecnico con background historico de todos conocido? yo no he encontrado ningun obstaculo a mis publicaciones en el mundo anglosajon.
Un saludo a todos y mis respeto por los demas autores.

I disagree, the book has a lot of inaccuracies and false legends, which unfortunately were installed in the popular imagination

There is already a book published about the FMA, by two excellent authors, backed by documentation, not stories and gossip.

There are very good pre and post work on the subject.

 

[NoBarrelRolls]

Hi @Erdosain thank you for your comment, I wasn’t aware of the first two.
The second title, “Alas de Cordoba para el país....” is it written by Brigadier San Martín sons?

 

[Erdosain]

 

[hesham]

What was those dear Erdosain ?.

 

[NoBarrelRolls]

The last one is proposed jet-powered version of the IA-58 Pucará. And the first one is a further development of that concept into a business jet.

I am puzzled by the second model @hesham

 

[Erdosain]

The second model is a proposed pressurized and enlarged version of IA-50 Guaraní II