Argentinian Unbuilt Projects

[Jemiba]

Einspruch, Euer Ehren ! (Your Honour !)
It's quite probably the I.A. 51, I think, which is attacking a ship looking like a clinched County class DDG here.
See the "Fábrica Militar de Aviones - Cronica y Testimonia" ( https://de.scribd.com/document/104898611/Fabrica-militar-de-aviones-cronicas-y-testimonios or http://es.slideshare.net/ramoncopa/fabrica-militardeavionescronicasytestimonios-por-angel-cesar-arreguez ,
we already had it here, but with a different link, AFAIK)
And according to that source, the second type is the I.A.55 ...

 

[Maveric]

Ok, I see only the marks on the planes...

 

[dan_inbox]

IMO, this plane marked IA-47 looks more like fanboi art than anything credible.
Just like the whole page it is on.


Scouring through the whole net and clinging to every little scrape has some value, and Hesham does a terrific contribution of it.
But proper filtering and verifying is essential, lest dubious stuff will creep in.
This being said, I'm certainly not complaining. So far it is impressive how well this forum is doing in this respect. Signal to noise ratio is very high.

 

[Jemiba]

IMO, this plane marked IA-47 looks more like fanboi art than anything credible.

Looking at that drawing, I thought the same at first, but actually it fits very well the 3-view
of the I.A. 51 in the mentioned source:

 

[dan_inbox]

Looking at that drawing, I thought the same at first, but actually it fits very well the 3-view of the I.A. 51 in the mentioned source:

Well that's the point: it looks like an drawing rendering some theoretical "project", but with the wrong designation number. Amateur's work.
Enthusiastic and nationalistic amateur (fanboi), yes. But for our purposes, amateurish and not reliable enough.

 

[dan_inbox]

We are duplicating info already on the site, at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18955.msg194258.html#msg232617
Maybe a moderator could consolidate this ?

Done, those Horten projects were merged with the thread mentioned above. Thanks for the clue !

 

[dan_inbox]

Thanks to you, Jens, for the endless patient shepherding of our disorganized posts

 

[hesham]

From the book; The Pucara Story.

 

[hesham]

The IA-59.

 

[hesham]

From the book; Las Alas de Peron

 

[hesham]

And;

 

[hesham]

FMA IA.37 under construction;

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201955%2001-3.pdf

 

[Hood]

FMA proposed a naval variant of the IA.63 Pampa during the late 1980s/early 1990 capable of landing and take-offs aboard the 25 de Mayo. The Argentine Navy had a requirement for a 12 aircraft. It was proposed to use a higher thrust AlliedSignal TFE731 turbofan but it was finally decided to use the standard 3,500lbf TFE731-2N. No designation was known and the project was dropped.

Source: Brassey's World Aircraft & Systems Directory, 1996-97.

 

[hesham]

Nice Info my dear Hood.

 

[blockhaj]

Might as well post this one

 

[hesham]

Nice drawing dear Blockhaj.

 

[blockhaj]

I did it a while ago but im already wanting to change some things after futher research. It would have had a huge bomb bay for 2000 kg of bombs and the gunner would probably have been a 11.35 mm madsen heavy mg instead of a small calibre one. It might even have had 6 cannons like the Nancu.

 

[hesham]

From le Fana 443.

 

[hesham]

From Aero Journal 43.

 

[dan_inbox]

Very interesting. Thanks, Petrus.

 

[hesham]

Amazing find my dear Petrus.

 

[hesham]

From Jane's All the World's Aircraft 1984-1985,

here is the FMA ATL,it was twin engined high-wing multi-purpose light transport
aircraft project,powered by two 1250 hp turboprops.

From L+K 17/1983.

 

[Erdosain]

Interesting proposal for an Pucara up-date, in fact the modernization is underway for 30 Pucaras in the fMA but much more simpler than this one.

Hello, this is not a proposal, it's a fan art. There a lot of kind illustration here in Argentina.

Unfortunately, there was never much interest in the FAA to improve the design or put into service improved variants such as the IA-58C.

We arrived in 2019 without replacement of the Pucara and without re-engined.

Now FAA and FADEA are waiting for the government to continue with the IA-58 Fenix project:

The transition to the new IA-58 Fénix weapon system

The transition to the new IA-58 Fénix weapon system

Last Friday, the farewell of the IA-58 Pucará weapons system took place at the III Air Brigade in Reconquista Santa Fe. A nearby attack aircraft, designed

www.zona-militar.com

 

[Erdosain]

I remember coming across a mention somewhere (unfortunately I don't recall the source) that there was allegedly a Pucara design study with jet engines. Does anybody have more information?

Martin,

FMA planned a version of the IA-58 Pucará or or "Superpucará" with twin 1048 kg thrust Astafans (ie: the Astazou with a 600mm or 700mm variable-pitch fan added). Some sources designate this jet Pucará as IA-60.* [Some sources list the IA-60 as the Pucará-R ... could that be for Reacción?]

The twin Astafans were to be mounted on the rear fuselage, the former nacelles becoming just undercarriage fairings (and fuel pods). The Astafans were aimed at the civilian market (Aero Commander, Ted Smith Super Star 3000, Italair F,22 Jet Condor) leading the Argentine AF to view them as unsuited to a military role.

There's a bunch of fan art out there for Über Pucarás pretending to be mini-Warthogs. AFAIK, the actual "Superpucará" project was for a two-seat trainer not an attack aircraft. Attached is a front view of what might be the "Superpucará".

"Superpucará" Specs: max speed 0.73 Mach, ceiling 10,000 m, max T/O 6500 kg (empty 3800 kg).

[* There's a conflict with this designation since it was also applied to a 1977 fighter bomber project by Héctor Eduardo Ruiz. This wing-winged 2-seater resembled the AI-63 Pampa but with the Pucará's T-tail. IA 60 fighter-bomber specs: max speed 950 km/h, 1 x RR Spey, 2 x 30 mm DEFA 554, 2000 kg bomb load. A full-scale mockup was built. http://www.argothypermedia.com/fma/19551993/19551993_06ac.html]

Does anyone know what the IA-61 project was? Some say Pucará-T, a pressurized transport derivative of the IA-58.

In fact, there are no internal documents of the former FMA (Fabrica Militar de Aviones - Military Aircraft Factory) that name any variant of the Pucara as IA-60 or Super Pucara.

The Pucará with turbojets for CAS missions such as those of the Su-25 or A-10 are only delusions of Argentine "enthusiasts" with little knowledge of the subject.

There were three variants of pucara with turbomeca Astafan turbojet

The first two are from 1969, when the project was still known as Delfin / Dolphin :

"A twin-jet aircraft for photography and aerial observation".

"A twin-jet aircraft for photography, observation and light transport

Both did not pass the preliminary draft stage


Then in 1970 Dr Reimar Horten presented the project of a Pucará for advanced training missions and as a replacement for the Morane Saulnier MS 760 Paris. This variante was shortened in length and span:

Obviously this project did not arouse interest in the FAA as a replacement for the Morane Saulnier MS 760 Paris used for advanced training, since it did not advance beyond the theoretical studies and preliminary calculations of weights and performances.

A note about the Pucara powered by tubojets that I wrote a few years ago. It is in Spanish:


Los IA-58 Pucará a reaccion

Los IA-58 Pucará a reaccion

Por Gonzalo Sebastian Rengel Graficos: Alejandro Klichowski El imaginario popular argentino siempre resalta el gran logro tecnológico que fueron los

www.zona-militar.com

 

[Erdosain]

Fighter Dewoitine D.720 (1947), the last project of the French designer for the Argentine government and the FMA after the I.Ae.27 Pulqui I. I think it was rejected in favor of Pulqui II by Kurt Tank

 

[Erdosain]

The mockup of the training plane FADEA IA-73 / UNASUR I.

It was a Joint Venture between Argentina, Brazil, Ecuador, Venezuela, among others and was planned to enter service with several Latin American air forces to replace B-45 Mentor and Embraer Tucano

The project was shelved and then Argentina continued on its own with the IA-100, a newly designed basic / elementary trainer

 

[Erdosain]

FMA IA-60

More info and photos in this link:

El FMA IA-60

Por Gonzalo Sebastián Rengel para www.zona-militar.com Ilustraciones digitales de Alejandro Klichowski. El Reemplazo del París y la Formación de un Nuevo

www.zona-militar.com

 

[Erdosain]

FMA IA-59, a project by Reimar Horten

 

[Erdosain]

A drawing showing the Pulqui II airbrakes

 

[Erdosain]

FMA/Agusta A-129 Utility

 

[Erdosain]

The covers of some historical books on the Argentine aeronautical industry.

In them there are aircraft built in significant quantities and those that only came to project or prototype, unfortunately the last two are more.

 

[Erdosain]

More covers

 

[Antonio]

Excelent, quite an comprehensive bibliography

 

[Erdosain]

The FMA IA-68 Advanced Attack Aircraft

A project that did not pass the initial proposal, but was a great discovery last year since it was completely unknown outside the FMA

El Avión de Ataque Avanzado FMA IA-68

Por Gonzalo Sebastián Rengel para www.zona-militar.com Ilustraciones digitales de Alejandro Klichowski. En mayo de 1975 el Vicecomodoro Ing. Hector E.

www.zona-militar.com

 

[nuuumannn]

Out of interest, Dewoitine's and Tank's Pulquis on display at the MNA, Buenos Aires.

 

[Petrus]

Again on the IAe-27a.

This time two photos of pages from an Argentinian magazine, in first of which you may see Mr Norberto Morchio in his home in Cordoba in 2012 beside models of 'the original design' of Pulqui II and Pulqui I and in the other - model of the IAe-27a (the same as above). Perhaps anyone can tell what magazine the photos come from?

In addition to that: from http://historiasdeaviones.blogspot.com/2013/11/la-genesis-de-las-flechas.html a drawing of the wing and undercarriage of the first prototype of IA-33 (you may see the "IA-33" in the right-lower corner of the drawing). It looks quite interesting as it clearly depict a mid-wing aircraft, not the high-wing (IA-33 as built). So I suspect that this was to be an intermediate phase of the design between Morchio-Ricciardi's design and that of Tank. Bearing in mind a remark from the article in the IAPR (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/argentinian-unbuilt-projects.211/post-347027) that "Tank's fuselage was adopted with the IAe-27a undercarriage", what may be seen in the drawing is the undercarriage arrangement from the Morchio-Ricciardi project. It may be also an indication that their project was in fact mid-wing rather than low-wing.
Btw does anybody have the drawing with higher resolution?

Piotr

Now @Erdosain (GREAT THANKS!!!) has sent me a scan of the book "Proceso de Diseño del Pulqui I. Anteproyecto del Pulqui II" by Norberto Morchio and Humberto Ricciardi (the authors were the designers of the IAe-27a). The book says that the undercarriage of the Morchio-Ricciardi project retracted into the fuselage while "in the German project it was retracted in the wings with a complicated retraction system" - so quite obviously what is seen in the drawing attached to my previous post must be the initial German (i.d. that of Kurt Tank's team) design of the IAe-33: mid-wing with undercarriage partially rectracting into wings and wheels - into fuselage. Subsequently it was agreed that the final project of the IAe-33 would have a fuselage designed by the Germans (wider that that designed by Morchio and Ricciardi with bigger fuel tanks) but with Morchio-Ricciardi undercarriage (i.e. retracted into the fuselage).
It should be also noted that first version of Morchio-Ricciardi design was low-wing (there were its two sub-versions: one with the tailplane mid-mounted on the fin, and the other with T-tail). The second version was high-wing.

Attached here you may find aircraft characteristics for the three Pulquis (as compared to MiG-15 and Mystere IV). Its source is the above-mentioned book.

Piotr

 

[hesham]

Yet another photo of the IA-27a model. Source: "Proyecto Pulqui II. Una sociología histórica de la innovación tecnológica en tiempos de Perón" by Alejandro Artopoulos. The book (actually a thesis) may be found there: https://www.scribd.com/document/374815146/Historia-del-Desarrollo-Auge-y-Caida-del-Pulqui-II

From Flugzeug Extra 2/2002,

a clearer view.

 

[Erdosain]

A rare photo of Pulqui I

 

[Erdosain]

Engine test of FMA IA 35 "Justicialista del aire", then re-called Huanquero

 

[Erdosain]

Again on the IAe-27a.

This time two photos of pages from an Argentinian magazine, in first of which you may see Mr Norberto Morchio in his home in Cordoba in 2012 beside models of 'the original design' of Pulqui II and Pulqui I and in the other - model of the IAe-27a (the same as above). Perhaps anyone can tell what magazine the photos come from?

In addition to that: from http://historiasdeaviones.blogspot.com/2013/11/la-genesis-de-las-flechas.html a drawing of the wing and undercarriage of the first prototype of IA-33 (you may see the "IA-33" in the right-lower corner of the drawing). It looks quite interesting as it clearly depict a mid-wing aircraft, not the high-wing (IA-33 as built). So I suspect that this was to be an intermediate phase of the design between Morchio-Ricciardi's design and that of Tank. Bearing in mind a remark from the article in the IAPR (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/argentinian-unbuilt-projects.211/post-347027) that "Tank's fuselage was adopted with the IAe-27a undercarriage", what may be seen in the drawing is the undercarriage arrangement from the Morchio-Ricciardi project. It may be also an indication that their project was in fact mid-wing rather than low-wing.
Btw does anybody have the drawing with higher resolution?

Piotr

Now @Erdosain (GREAT THANKS!!!) has sent me a scan of the book "Proceso de Diseño del Pulqui I. Anteproyecto del Pulqui II" by Norberto Morchio and Humberto Ricciardi (the authors were the designers of the IAe-27a). The book says that the undercarriage of the Morchio-Ricciardi project retracted into the fuselage while "in the German project it was retracted in the wings with a complicated retraction system" - so quite obviously what is seen in the drawing attached to my previous post must be the initial German (i.d. that of Kurt Tank's team) design of the IAe-33: mid-wing with undercarriage partially rectracting into wings and wheels - into fuselage. Subsequently it was agreed that the final project of the IAe-33 would have a fuselage designed by the Germans (wider that that designed by Morchio and Ricciardi with bigger fuel tanks) but with Morchio-Ricciardi undercarriage (i.e. retracted into the fuselage).
It should be also noted that first version of Morchio-Ricciardi design was low-wing (there were its two sub-versions: one with the tailplane mid-mounted on the fin, and the other with T-tail). The second version was high-wing.

Attached here you may find aircraft characteristics for the three Pulquis (as compared to MiG-15 and Mystere IV). Its source is the above-mentioned book.

Piotr

In this facebook group called "Argentine Aerospace Development" (Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino) you can find some books and articles, in pdf and jpg format, of Argentine aircraft (including the book "Proceso de Diseño del Pulqui I. Anteproyecto del Pulqui II" by Norberto Morchio and Humberto Ricciardi ) and many photos of Pulqui I, II, IA-37/38/48 and others.

I will upload the most interesting photos here as I have time


Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino - Pasado, Presente y Futuro

https://www.facebook.com/groups/907403825971511/