AGM-109 / BGM-109 Tomahawk / Gryphon Concepts, Projects and Prototypes

[xena]

Why? It was the way how Tomahawk was developed. Topic is AGM-109 and these pictures belongs to it.

 

[TomS]

Why? It was the way how Tomahawk was developed. Topic is AGM-109 and these pictures belongs to it.

Things have been moved to this "development" thread, as suggested. They used to be in a Tomahawk operational thread, which was misleading.

 

[TomS]

FYI, another new stack of pictures showing AGM/BGM-109 Tomahawk during its early development were uploaded at the SDASM Flickr archive today.
Here an appetizer.

https://flic.kr/p/2qzyxux

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qzyxux

You can see a couple of cutaway submunitions, showing off the tandem warhead design going on there. Precursor shaped charge to dig a hole, and a follow-on charge to heave and crater the concrete.

 

[fightingirish]

Thanks @TomS, maybe I should have posted that appetizer in the topic 'AGM-109 dispenser'.
Link:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/agm-109-dispenser.38954/

 

[fightingirish]

FYI, another new stack of pictures showing AGM/BGM-109 Tomahawk during its early development were uploaded at the SDASM Flickr archive today.

 

[zjz]

FYI, another new stack of pictures showing AGM/BGM-109 Tomahawk during its early development were uploaded at the SDASM Flickr archive today.

It's a pity that most of the pictures are not tagged properly, or am I not a savvy enough user to filter what I wish to search for?

 

[Pixelbrick]

It's a pity that most of the pictures are not tagged properly, or am I not a savvy enough user to filter what I wish to search for?

There's so many weird & awesome historical artefacts in there:

https://flic.kr/p/2qzywk8

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qzywk8

 

[robunos]

There's so many weird & awesome historical artefacts in there:

https://flic.kr/p/2qzywk8

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qzywk8

Man, a process camera ! Haven't seen or used on of them for years . . . looks like a n Agfa model, too . . . like the one I used to use . . .

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Apophenia]

Man, a process camera ! Haven't seen or used on of them for years . . . looks like a n Agfa model, too . . . like the one I used to use . . .

Now there's a blast from the past! My last exposure (pun, get it?) to the AGFA Repromaster was screening artwork circa 1979!

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, Robin

 

[aim9xray]

There's so many weird & awesome historical artefacts in there:

https://flic.kr/p/2qzywk8

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qzywk8

Good Lord! A process camera! In a room with a safelight. And some quick processors for negs and PMTs. I'll bet the Lith sisters worked near there; Ruby and Amber.

 

[TomS]

The short Tomahawk on a rotary launcher (described as a wired test stand) is interesting. Probably sized for the short bays in a B-1.

 

[TomS]

Thanks! I am aware MRASM was a shortened Tomahawk, even shorter than the ACLM candidate that was tested against AGM-86B .....

I will take some time to read through the report .... I am a sucker for any documentation that provides historical context on missile developments .....

MRASM came in two versions. The Air Force version was 232 inches long, while the Navy version was 192 inches.

The original Air Force ALCM was only 167.65 inches, followed by an Extended Range Version at 233.65 inches and then the final AGM-86B ALCM configuration at 249 inches.

 

[TomS]

The short Tomahawk on a rotary launcher (described as a wired test stand) is interesting. Probably sized for the short bays in a B-1.

View attachment 754118

Just realized that this might have also been for the B-52. That's a SRAM rotary launcher, most likely.

Edit: This Tomahawk is probably just about 168 inches, the same length as SCAD and the ADM-68A ALCM, sized as an alternative load for the SRAM launchers on both the B-52 and the B-1.

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

The short Tomahawk on a rotary launcher (described as a wired test stand) is interesting. Probably sized for the short bays in a B-1.

View attachment 754118

Other images state it's for the B-52's SRAM launcher.

 

[TomS]

Other images state it's for the B-52's SRAM launcher.

Yeah, I got there eventually. But thanks for the images; those are amazing.

 

[zjz]

SDASM Archives is a treasure trove for "Tomahawk" historian wanna-be ....

 

[zjz]

Flickr is a bit difficult for me to navigate, but I found a few albums with cruise missile contents :

General Dynamics BGM-109 Tomahawk Album

Images of the General Dynamics Tomahawk

www.flickr.com

General Dynamics MRASM

Medium Range Air to Surface Missile

www.flickr.com

General Dynamics ALCM

Agm-86 alcm

www.flickr.com

General Dynamics GLCM Images

BGM-109G Ground Launched Cruise Missile

www.flickr.com

Robert Kemp Collection

Images from the Robert Kemp Collection, graciously donated by Willis and Claudia Allen of Allen Airways Flying Museum. Robert Kemp was the chief illustrator at General Dynamics.

www.flickr.com

 

[fightingirish]

FYI, another new stack of pictures showing AGM/BGM-109 Tomahawk during its early development were uploaded at the SDASM Flickr archive today.
Here some appetisers.
Tomahawk missile concept art

https://flic.kr/p/2qEgQNi

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEgQNi

Supersonic sprint missile

https://flic.kr/p/2qEj1qQ

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEj1qQ

Tomahawk missile variant model, notice the swing wing.

https://flic.kr/p/2qEgQKH

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEgQKH

ASW Tomahawk missile concept

https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1JR

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1JR

https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1JL

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1JL

https://flic.kr/p/2qEgR3G

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEgR3G

ASW Tomahawk missile model with sonobuoys and a lightweight Mark 50 torpedo

https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1Kc

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1Kc

Transport test of a Tomahawk missile mock-up on the USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63).

https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1oS

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1oS

 

[TomS]

OK, There are so many interesting things there.

1) Supersonic sprint missile. I can see why this one didn't progress. At 3-5 nm, it probably separates too late to really help except maybe against CIWS.

2) The various Tomahawk ASW models are neat, and this wasn't the last time they would come up. But "multiple nuclear" warheads? Presumably a boomer killer, because it's gross overkill for anything else. They also sneak in a reference to a half-length heavyweight torp (HLHWT) -- that Mk 39 we have talked about.

The version with ALWT and sonobuoys for end-game is very close the the version that came around again in the 1990s, and actually makes a good bit of sense, assuming you are confident in your buoys. The cutaway shows the basic principle -- a bunch of compact passive buoys and a larger active acoustic source (quite likely something like an EER buoy with small explosive noisemakers).

 

[TomS]

The version with ALWT and sonobuoys for end-game is very close the the version that came around again in the 1990s, and actually makes a good bit of sense, assuming you are confident in your buoys. The cutaway shows the basic principle -- a bunch of compact passive buoys and a larger active acoustic source (quite likely something like an EER buoy with small explosive noisemakers).

This pic from the reverse angle adds another neat feature. The red shape is tagged as a BDA Buoy, which would presumably be listening for sounds of a successful engagement by the torpedo payload.

By my count, this has 20 small sonobouys, plus the acoustic source and BDA Buoy, which are both double-size.

https://flic.kr/p/2qEcfUa

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/54253478177/in/photostream/

 

[Scott Kenny]

OK, There are so many interesting things there.

1) Supersonic sprint missile. I can see why this one didn't progress. At 3-5 nm, it probably separates too late to really help except maybe against CIWS.

Yeah, I think you need to be supersonic as soon as you clear the radar horizon to the target, let's call it 30nmi. Not 3nmi!

This pic from the reverse angle adds another neat feature. The red shape is tagged as a BDA Buoy, which would presumably be listening for sounds of a successful engagement by the torpedo payload.

By my count, this has 20 small sonobouys, plus the acoustic source and BDA Buoy, which are both double-size.

https://flic.kr/p/2qEcfUa

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/54253478177/in/photostream/

Oh, that would have been wicked for a "conventional SUBROC" replacement...

 

[Mark Nankivil]

FYI, another new stack of pictures showing AGM/BGM-109 Tomahawk during its early development were uploaded at the SDASM Flickr archive today.
Here some appetisers.
Tomahawk missile concept art

https://flic.kr/p/2qEgQNi

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEgQNi

Supersonic sprint missile

https://flic.kr/p/2qEj1qQ

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEj1qQ

Tomahawk missile variant model, notice the swing wing.

https://flic.kr/p/2qEgQKH

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEgQKH

ASW Tomahawk missile concept

https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1JR

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1JR

https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1JL

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1JL

https://flic.kr/p/2qEgR3G

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEgR3G

ASW Tomahawk missile model with sonobuoys and a lightweight Mark 50 torpedo

https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1Kc

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1Kc

Transport test of a Tomahawk missile mock-up on the USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63).

https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1oS

View: https://flic.kr/p/2qEi1oS

A few more from SDASM to add to the Supersonic Sprint variant....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[TomS]

A few more from SDASM to add to the Supersonic Sprint variant....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

I'm not convinced the pointed nose version is the supersonic sprint variant. The presentation drawing of the supersonic version shows a round nose and a noticable pinch where the sprint vehicle would mate to the cruise stage.

I can't definitely figure out what that variable geometry one is supposed to show. It could be a different high-speed variant, certainly. But I also wonder if it's a different approach to handling wing stowage, reducing the lost volume inside the fuselage, with the tradeoff that this configuration is only suitable for external carriage and air launch.

 

[zjz]

This Tomahawk Would Be Ideal Against russian Airfields: the Fate of the MRASM AGM-109H Project | Defense Express

A cruise missile capable of rendering a whole air base in operable — sounds fantastic but the 1980s' Pentagon had different priorities

en.defence-ua.com

 

[zjz]

The supersonic sprint version is like the Klub with it's subsonic turbojet, supersonic terminal dart concept .....

https://flic.kr/p/2qEj1qQ

I always thought the slow-fast concept was an original USSR one, but with this release of historical drawing, I am not so sure now ....

 

[NMaude]

I always thought the slow-fast concept was an original USSR one, but with this release of historical drawing, I am not so sure now ....

Wasn't there a project cancelled about 15-20 years ago where the USN was going to develop and deploy a missile-target simulating such a Soviet-era AShM built from surplus Tomahawk and early block Standard/Terrier or Tartar missiles:?

 

[TomS]

P

Wasn't there a project cancelled about 15-20 years ago where the USN was going to develop and deploy a missile-target simulating such a Soviet-era AShM built from surplus Tomahawk and early block Standard/Terrier or Tartar missiles:?

Don't recall that, though it's possible someone proposed that. There was the Multi-Stage Supersonic Target effort that sort of imploded the way most USN target programs do.

Alliant Techsystems GQM-173 MSST

 

[NMaude]

There was the Multi-Stage Supersonic Target effort that sort of imploded the way most USN target programs do.

Alliant Techsystems GQM-173 MSST

That's the one I was thinking of and IMO its cancellation was very short-sighted as it would've been very useful.

 

[TomS]

That's the one I was thinking of and IMO its cancellation was very short-sighted, if they had been put into production I have no doubt a variant with a warhead could've been made for the Ukrainians.

Just stop it. Not every damned thing has to be framed as "for Ukraine."

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Right @NMaude we don't have to mention every single system that it might have been useful for Ukrainians. In fact, let's assume any unbuilt built or retired system might have been useful for Ukrainians and never mention it again in any topic please.

 

[NMaude]

Right @NMaude we don't have to mention every single system that it might have been useful for Ukrainians.

I have edited the post to remove the offending item.

 

[zjz]

Wasn't there a project cancelled about 15-20 years ago where the USN was going to develop and deploy a missile-target simulating such a Soviet-era AShM built from surplus Tomahawk and early block Standard/Terrier or Tartar missiles:?

Yes, it was called "Threat-D" .....

I posted this somewhere in this forum before .....

 

[zjz]

OK found the "Threat-D" document here :

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA441466.pdf

 

[TomS]

OK found the "Threat-D" document here :

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/Athe Russian name and UD DA441466.pdf

Wonderful source.

My tiny nitpick is that Threat-D was the public codename for the 3M54 missile they were trying to simulate. That was eventually assigned the SS-N-27 Sizzler reporting name. I'd have to go back and figure out when the Russian and NATO names became public, but I thought it was before 2005.

 

[Scott Kenny]

The supersonic sprint version is like the Klub with it's subsonic turbojet, supersonic terminal dart concept .....

https://flic.kr/p/2qEj1qQ

I always thought the slow-fast concept was an original USSR one, but with this release of historical drawing, I am not so sure now ....

Horribly short ranged, IMO.

Needs to be supersonic as soon as the missile crosses the radar horizon.

 

[Kat Tsun]

I bet you could make a decent anti-ship missile out of the Sizzler simulating SM-2/RGM-109 half and half decoy tbh. I'm not sure what the range would be though. SM-2 is probably good enough to carry either a tactical nuke or a NSM warhead.

 

[NMaude]

I bet you could make a decent anti-ship missile out of the Sizzler simulating SM-2/RGM-109 half and half decoy tbh.

You could get even higher performance if you'd used an SM-3 Block I instead of the SM-2 with the SM-3's EKV replaced by ballast and a telemetry package.

 

[lastdingo]

I remember an old brief article about a propfan version of Tomahawk with image.
Higher range (figure iirc given), worse rcs

PM me if nobody has anything about it, digging that article up would be quite some effort.

 

[TomS]

I remember an old brief article about a propfan version of Tomahawk with image.
Higher range (figure iirc given), worse rcs

PM me if nobody has anything about it, digging that article up would be quite some effort.

Something from this thread?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/1989-navy-usaf-long-range-conventional-standoff-weapon-lrcsw.1121/#post-260640

 

[lastdingo]

Maybe, I last saw the article years ago. I remember prominent propfans & cylindrical fuselage.