I wonder what the ratio of kh-35 to lacm is now for them? I don’t think NK could even leverage the range of an anti-ship version of the cruise missile.
 
I wonder what the ratio of kh-35 to lacm is now for them? I don’t think NK could even leverage the range of an anti-ship version of the cruise missile.
No naval vessel is capable on their on to leverage beyond 100 nautical miles hence information from assets such as UAV/UCAV and AWACS/AEW is taken into account.
 
No naval vessel is capable on their on to leverage beyond 100 nautical miles hence information from assets such as UAV/UCAV and AWACS/AEW is taken into account.
Yeah, and I haven’t seen much about NK using drones for maritime surveillance.
 
new sub


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My reaction:
Its an okay analysis, but double standards since it author states it is not clear if there are torpedo tubes present or were they removed during reshaping only for author to assert that propulsion did not change and that battery capacity was reduced without any shred of evidence to support it.
 
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My reaction:
Its an okay analysis, but double standards since it author states it is not clear if there are torpedo tubes present or were they removed during reshaping only for author to assert that propulsion did not change and that battery capacity was reduced without any shred of evidence to support it.
Agreed. We do not know how long the rear missile tubes are. They may not be hull-penetrating (if they carry cruise missiles), so there would be no need to remove the batteries.

P.S. Also Kim the Third already confirmed that they plan to do this refit with other Romeo-class submarines. Most likely not all of them, but at least several.
 
Never underestimate the power of institutional inertia -- the next logical step after the recent corvettes is something a bit bigger.

But also, I would not be terribly surprised if they mirror-imaged that proposed ROKN Joint Strike Ship as a way to increase the potential reach of their own ballistic missile force. The DPRK ballistic missile subs are still very limited. A surface ship armed primarily with ballistic missiles might be appealing.
 
For the same purpose as other nations; to be able to operate outside of coastal area.
The North Korean Navy was never designed to operate effectively as a green-water navy. Their expertise focuses on coastal defense, infiltration and high-speed landings.

Of course, there is a chance that they're aiming for a true green-water navy. Their large submarines and surface ships cannot defend themselves - it would take a lot of other submarines and surface ships to escort and protect them. That is, nuclear submarine and large warship ambitions could imply a powerful, deadly and numerous fleet in the future. But that would be a huge burden on their shipbuilding industry, naval military industrial complex and other supporting industries - as I see it, historically they have never been good or focused on these fields.
 
Of course, there is a chance that they're aiming for a true green-water navy. Their large submarines and surface ships cannot defend themselves - it would take a lot of other submarines and surface ships to escort and protect them. That is, nuclear submarine and large warship ambitions could imply a powerful, deadly and numerous fleet in the future. But that would be a huge burden on their shipbuilding industry, naval military industrial complex and other supporting industries - as I see it, historically they have never been good or focused on these fields.
Well, China once have only small, green water navy and no shipbuilding industry to talk about... and now it have second greatest ocean fleet in the world (aiming to become first one pretty soon) and largest world shipbuilding industry)
 
Well, China once have only small, green water navy and no shipbuilding industry to talk about... and now it have second greatest ocean fleet in the world (aiming to become first one pretty soon) and largest world shipbuilding industry)
China's ship building industry can be dated back to 19th century, and that's for blue water, while modernizing the China shipyards involved importing technologies from various foreign partners from 80s to 2000s.
 
Well, China once have only small, green water navy and no shipbuilding industry to talk about... and now it have second greatest ocean fleet in the world (aiming to become first one pretty soon) and largest world shipbuilding industry)
China is supported by a huge shipbuilding industry, even before it begins to move into foreign markets; domestic demand alone is large enough to sustain it. North Korea has neither: its shipyards are small and medium-sized, and it has long been underinvested in maritime sectors of the economy – such as trade and shipping – and thus has little need for shipbuilding, which means there isn't much to fund shipbuilding projects either.
 
Historically, North Korea has also been better at building submarines. That would be a better way to compete with the US-South Korean naval superiority.

500 ton coastal submarines. 1500-2000 ton attack submarines. Romeo-mod nuclear attack submarines. And the cherry on top is the nuclear powered submarines. That would be a serious threat.
 
Wow, is that a proper destroyer? Something this size can be immediately imagined with a navalized Pyoljji SAM and the types of (nuclear capable) cruise missiles unveiled recently, among other new weapons DPRK might be working on. Do they have something like Tsirkon in the works?
 
For all those who still don't understand how fast the DPRK is moving forward and that the emergence of a manned fighter jet is inevitable.View attachment 753990
That is not as big a ship as yall seem to think it is. There's only 3 levels above the weather deck to the bridge, 4 levels total.

A Burke is 5 or 6.

This ship is closer to the size of an LCS1 or maybe Constellation-class FFG, not a Burke or Type 052.
 
That is not as big a ship as yall seem to think it is. There's only 3 levels above the weather deck to the bridge, 4 levels total.

A Burke is 5 or 6.

This ship is closer to the size of an LCS1 or maybe Constellation-class FFG, not a Burke or Type 052.
Constellation-class and Type 052 are basically same weight, former is slightly shorter.
Considering how it almost protrudes from shipyard, tight fit for 170 meter long dock.
Could very well length wise match 052D and maybe even exceed it is possible.
 
For all those who still don't understand how fast the DPRK is moving forward and that the emergence of a manned fighter jet is inevitable.
This is a ship, not an aircraft.

Looks funky but when they put an open-backed twin 100mm gun mount on the forecastle it will look less funky (though they might enclose this time to keep up with the Joneses).

And those holes for radar arrays look a tad small to me. I make them about 4ft x 6ft (1.2 x 1.8m).
 
That is not as big a ship as yall seem to think it is. There's only 3 levels above the weather deck to the bridge, 4 levels total.

A Burke is 5 or 6.

This ship is closer to the size of an LCS1 or maybe Constellation-class FFG, not a Burke or Type 052.
You are certainly right, Scott.
But this is not about the displacement of the ship at all. The context is in the answer to the question of "how many countries in the world can design and build a similar ship?"
And there is no need to assume that the DPRK has to import the propulsion system, AESA radars, VLS, anti-aircraft system, cruise missiles...
 
This is a ship, not an aircraft.

Looks funky but when they put an open-backed twin 100mm gun mount on the forecastle it will look less funky (though they might enclose this time to keep up with the Joneses).

And those holes for radar arrays look a tad small to me. I make them about 4ft x 6ft (1.2 x 1.8m).
Ship moves so it might as well be a way to see how well components work in operation while ship is moving which would be a step toward aircraft radar.

They have enclosed 76mm automatic cannon turrets, Oto Melara 76 clone.

1735468645956.png

Doors are probably 2 meter in height thus AESA should be 2 x 3 meter dimension.

You are certainly right, Scott.
But this is not about the displacement of the ship at all. The context is in the answer to the question of "how many countries in the world can design and build a similar ship?"
And there is no need to assume that the DPRK has to import the propulsion system, AESA radars, VLS, anti-aircraft system, cruise missiles...
At least AESA fielded on a ship is a small step forward towards aircraft radar.
They can observe and gather information on performance of it while it moves.
 
At least AESA fielded on a ship is a small step forward towards aircraft radar.
PESA is more likely for now, IMHO.

It's level we saw DPRK can comfortable reach, and frankly, for ship use, it's preferable.

At least at first.
 
Constellation-class and Type 052 are basically same weight, former is slightly shorter.
Considering how it almost protrudes from shipyard, tight fit for 170 meter long dock.
Could very well length wise match 052D and maybe even exceed it is possible.
Depends on which Type 052 we're talking about. The 052D is about 1000 tonnes heavier than a Connie, the 052C about 400 tonnes heavier, 052B also about 400 tonnes heavier, and the plain 052-no-suffix is a tiny thing 2200 tonnes lighter than a Connie!

Those are painfully small antenna apertures, ~2x3m, and they're only about 40ft above the waterline...
 
You are certainly right, Scott.
But this is not about the displacement of the ship at all. The context is in the answer to the question of "how many countries in the world can design and build a similar ship?"
And there is no need to assume that the DPRK has to import the propulsion system, AESA radars, VLS, anti-aircraft system, cruise missiles...
A ship that is in the 4500-7000 tonne size range? One with about 20ft from waterline to weather deck, and the bridge maybe 50ft above the waterline?

Any country with a coastline can build one of those. FFS, there are megayachts that big!
 
A ship that is in the 4500-7000 tonne size range? One with about 20ft from waterline to weather deck, and the bridge maybe 50ft above the waterline?

Any country with a coastline can build one of those. FFS, there are megayachts that big!
I think feature here isn't hull, it's that inside is likely also fully sourced from DPRK.
Which indeed very few countries can even remotely match, even if they aren't world level.
 
Depends on which Type 052 we're talking about. The 052D is about 1000 tonnes heavier than a Connie, the 052C about 400 tonnes heavier, 052B also about 400 tonnes heavier, and the plain 052-no-suffix is a tiny thing 2200 tonnes lighter than a Connie!

Those are painfully small antenna apertures, ~2x3m, and they're only about 40ft above the waterline...

A ship that is in the 4500-7000 tonne size range? One with about 20ft from waterline to weather deck, and the bridge maybe 50ft above the waterline?

Any country with a coastline can build one of those. FFS, there are megayachts that big!

1. You at poor at estimating distances
2. Why are you talking about naval stuff in an airforce thread?
 
I think feature here isn't hull, it's that inside is likely also fully sourced from DPRK.
Which indeed very few countries can even remotely match, even if they aren't world level.
Switzerland could build all the guts of a ship this size. So could Norway or Sweden.

Hell, I bet Brazil and India could. Maybe Vietnam.
 
Switzerland could build all the guts of a ship this size. So could Norway or Sweden.

Hell, I bet Brazil and India could. Maybe Vietnam.
Switzerland doesn't produce missile systems, despite being old European country (i.e. industrialized by default).
Norway, Sweden - machinery(and weapons only partially)
Brazil - nothing, India - no machinery.
Vietnam - nothing...
 

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