Focke Wulf Fw 190 / Ta 152 Projects & Variants
- Thread starter Justo Miranda
- Start date
- Joined
- 22 January 2006
- Messages
- 4,099
- Reaction score
- 1,663
Thanks again for your wonderful drawings and data. Do you know which was the engine power for that monsters?.
Thanks in advance.
Both designs look mighty. I wonder why the FW-190/Ta-152 development was so delayed and why it was never boosted to the limits shown in that BMW 802 and 8011 versions. The Ta-152 proved to be a formidable fighter but. I guess a mix of circumstances conspired against it:
Political: Messerschmitt enjoyed better relationship with nazi leaders? That’s why Me-109 was a first line fighter to the end of the War?.
Technical: jet fighters appeared before the Ta152 could reach its full development?
Thanks in advance.
Both designs look mighty. I wonder why the FW-190/Ta-152 development was so delayed and why it was never boosted to the limits shown in that BMW 802 and 8011 versions. The Ta-152 proved to be a formidable fighter but. I guess a mix of circumstances conspired against it:
Political: Messerschmitt enjoyed better relationship with nazi leaders? That’s why Me-109 was a first line fighter to the end of the War?.
Technical: jet fighters appeared before the Ta152 could reach its full development?
- Joined
- 25 July 2007
- Messages
- 4,152
- Reaction score
- 3,795
According to this Luft46 source ( http://www.luft46.com/fw/fwbmw802.html ), the BMW 802 produced 2600 hp for take-off and 1600 hp at 39,000 feet. The BMW P.8011 produced 2800-2900 hp for take-off but no altitude rating is given.
- Joined
- 26 January 2011
- Messages
- 2,224
- Reaction score
- 594
pometablava said:
Far from it. Willy Messerschmitt was forced off the board of his own Design Bureaux/Factory before WWII started IIRC. He and Milch loathed each other.
Yes. You have to remember, the BF109 started design in ~1933, four years before Kurt Tank started work on the FW190. The FW190 was always hoped to succeed the BF109 by Tank. The RLM merely wished it to supplement it.
- Joined
- 31 May 2006
- Messages
- 654
- Reaction score
- 428
Justo - I'd just like to say thanks for the fascinating info you've been posting here lately.
Source gradings - I take it 1 is primary documents, 2 secondary documents is this correct?what are 3 and higher?
Source gradings - I take it 1 is primary documents, 2 secondary documents is this correct?what are 3 and higher?
pometablava said:
Thank you ,Antonio for your kind words
History tells that the manufacturers with better political contacts in the Third Reich were Messerschmitt and Bachem , with Heinkel being the most poorly connected.
Like other good engineer , Kurt Tank lack social skills (You may see an example in the attached text , taken from "Las alas de Peron" by Ricardo Burzaco , Da Vinci ed. 1995)
The Ta 152 was built to compensate the low performance of the jet fighters at an altitude higher than 20000 ft.
Please find attached some stuff on the engines
See also "Le Fana" Nov 94
Attachments
Probably the main reason the BMW 802, etc were not placed in production was simply the engines had not reached a production state of development. Even the 801 was not fully developed, I have one report from 1944 where on a single mission, the abort rate for a/c powered by 801s was 40%+ IIRC.
As a point of interest, the BMW director for advanced projects (everything after the 801) was Dipl. Ing. Peter Kappus who last time I checked (2002) was still living in Cincinnatti. I regret not being able to visit him since that time as he is (was?) one of the last engineers with hands on experience in WWII German aircraft engine development. At the time of my last contact, he was in his nineties and sounded frail, but it is possible he still is around.
Best regards,
Artie Bob
As a point of interest, the BMW director for advanced projects (everything after the 801) was Dipl. Ing. Peter Kappus who last time I checked (2002) was still living in Cincinnatti. I regret not being able to visit him since that time as he is (was?) one of the last engineers with hands on experience in WWII German aircraft engine development. At the time of my last contact, he was in his nineties and sounded frail, but it is possible he still is around.
Best regards,
Artie Bob
- Joined
- 31 May 2006
- Messages
- 654
- Reaction score
- 428
Johnbr said:
My understanding is that and the development process the BMW 802 was long and involved (a little like the R3350 or the Centaurus). An unusual feature was that the supercharger was placed in front of the cylinders (in relation to the aircraft's direction of travel).
There was a wide ranging Cull of German Aero engine projects in 1942, many promising designs were eliminated for concentration on just a few. The Jumo 222 was in the same power class as the BMW 802 but development was continued with the Jumo whereas the BMW and the DB 604 were not pursued.
ysi_maniac
ACCESS: Confidential
- Joined
- 26 January 2007
- Messages
- 81
- Reaction score
- 30
^^^^^^
I agree with you: an evolved version
BTW: What is in your avatar?
I agree with you: an evolved version
BTW: What is in your avatar?
- Joined
- 3 June 2006
- Messages
- 2,949
- Reaction score
- 3,171
Probarly the Fw 190 C with a turbocharged Daimler-Benz DB 603 for high altitudes.ysi_maniac said:
Justo Miranda said:
Yes, is it : an experimental prototype !
well returning about escort fighters for Amerika Bombers , possible candidate as escort fighters for long range bombers was also Me-329
http://www.luft46.com/mess/me329.html
little ot about my avatar :
http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/fw190v18.htm
you have right , prototype V-18/U1 was prototype for Fw 190 C but project was halted by technical problems and opposition to use of the DB 603 (which was needed for other aircraft types).It was obviously !!
Vietcong
Avation Enthusiast from VN
The Ta 153 is actually a testbed aircraft originally called the Fw 190 Ra-4D and was the plane which initially tested the long-spanned wing .But it was not complete because the factory was overun.Is this pic are the real art of the Ta 153 or it is the Fw 190D
Attachments
- Joined
- 25 July 2007
- Messages
- 4,152
- Reaction score
- 3,795
sagallacci
ACCESS: Confidential
- Joined
- 14 January 2009
- Messages
- 96
- Reaction score
- 10
That machine actually had the slightly extended wing of the earlier Fw190B project, a unique item not used elsewhere.
(the '190B was attempting a high altitude machine using a BMW 801 with hi-alt features and extended outer wing sections, don't know if more than one machine was built and flown. Not successful.)
(the '190B was attempting a high altitude machine using a BMW 801 with hi-alt features and extended outer wing sections, don't know if more than one machine was built and flown. Not successful.)
maccountrypilot
ACCESS: Restricted
- Joined
- 29 June 2010
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 0
Has anyone ever heard of or seen anything on this FW-802 plane. I think it was a concept only. I don't ever remember seeing it in any type of production
- Joined
- 11 March 2006
- Messages
- 8,665
- Reaction score
- 3,524
Maybe you are speaking of this project ? http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3603.msg28450.html#msg28450
Just as a hint and hopefully not narrow-minded: It's easier for us, when you mention the company in full and
not just an abreviation, which may have another meaning.
Just as a hint and hopefully not narrow-minded: It's easier for us, when you mention the company in full and
not just an abreviation, which may have another meaning.
maccountrypilot
ACCESS: Restricted
- Joined
- 29 June 2010
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 0
thanks for the help! Yes I was looking for the contra rotating prop FW-802. The question I have ... was this ever actually produced or is it drawings only?
- Joined
- 25 July 2007
- Messages
- 4,152
- Reaction score
- 3,795
maccountrypilot said:
Strictly a design exercise by Dipl-Ing Ludwig Mittelhuber.
One of Peter's (Flitzer's) takes on this concept:
http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/photos/feature/3836/27v8sp34.jpg
- Joined
- 13 August 2007
- Messages
- 7,813
- Reaction score
- 8,821
What was the Idea behind this concept ?
just like P-51D with Marquardt ram engine, getting more speed ?
and is this the origin for the P-51D Ramjet test in 1946 ?
just like P-51D with Marquardt ram engine, getting more speed ?
and is this the origin for the P-51D Ramjet test in 1946 ?
Hight altitude performance ,Fw 190 A-10 variant
Bill Walker
Per Ardua ad Nauseum
Were the engines ever used in flight? You would want to be really REALLY sure both engines came on at exactly the same time, and went off at exactly the same time.