Z-21 (?) - New Chinese Heavy Attack Helicopter

Common dynamic components with the Z-20 alone will likely see this platform supersede the other attack helicopters in the Chinese inventory. Heavier payload and probable better endurance will also make it a front runner.

Given the rest of the high-tech nations race for greater speed, range, and endurance, it would not surprise me if this were the last traditional combat helicopter for China.
 
yasotay said:
Given the rest of the high-tech nations race for greater speed, range, and endurance, it would not surprise me if this were the last traditional combat helicopter for China.
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I'd actually expect them to try for a compound helicopter, Cheyenne style, before trying for a tilt-rotor.
 
I would not see China going for a tilt-rotor yet Scott Kenny, look at how long it took the US with the V-22 program and all the accidents between the initial design and eventual in service. I would think that the next thing that China would try is a Cheyenne style compound helicopter that would be a much more likely less risky option to take.
 
Given China's ability to acquire technology, and their fast growing technology sector, I would not be surprised to find the Chinese rotorcraft community already working on both types. Given their national aspirations, long range VTOL would seem an imperative.

That said, I agree that the next step would most likely be a compound rotorcraft, vice a tilt rotor.
 
FighterJock said:
I would not see China going for a tilt-rotor yet Scott Kenny, look at how long it took the US with the V-22 program and all the accidents between the initial design and eventual in service. I would think that the next thing that China would try is a Cheyenne style compound helicopter that would be a much more likely less risky option to take.
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A lot of the issues with the Osprey were due to scaling up an H1/H60 sized fuselage to CH46 size. The XV-15 people happily jumped into and flew wherever it needed to go.

So something roughly 12-16pax should work quite easily for the Chinese to make work.
 
FighterJock said:
I would not see China going for a tilt-rotor yet Scott Kenny, look at how long it took the US with the V-22 program and all the accidents between the initial design and eventual in service. I would think that the next thing that China would try is a Cheyenne style compound helicopter that would be a much more likely less risky option to take.
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To me, the most important point seems to be this:

Under what circumstances would the PLA need a fast helicopter with a light transport aircraft-like range? (that has a big disadvantage of requiring significantly more maintenance)

They're not island hopping all the way from one side of the Pacific to the other, their main threat is literally right next door and that threat's main backers are also within 1000 kilometers of China at the furthest.

From what I can see, this is unknown to most American observers but Chinese helicopters also have some unconventionally long range; they can literally cross the Strait, loiter for a good while, launch their payload and fly back without any refuel (they don't have probes anyway).
 
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My thoughts too SK2, I wonder why they did not assign the Z-21 to Army Aviation? Seems rather strange, where were the Z-20s assigned to?
 
It appears that the Chinese, at least with the prototype, have elected to go with a single air data sensor positions off the port side of the front cockpit. Similar to the AH-1Z. This is a suposition from the protusion of the cover there and the lack of any on the engine deck like that of the AH-64D and E.
 
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SK2 said:
Interesting that they are assigned to PLAAF instead of PLA Army Aviation
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Pardon? Why do you think it is already assigned and then to the PLAAF?

FighterJock said:
My thoughts too SK2, I wonder why they did not assign the Z-21 to Army Aviation? Seems rather strange, where were the Z-20s assigned to?
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It si not assigned yet! It has the typical CFTE serial numbers and here 6233 fits nicely to the second prototype carrying 6232.
Even more the number fits nicely into the typical Z-20/21-testing pattern with the Z-20J prototypes as 621x and the Z-20F prototypes are numbered 622x.

Z-21 6232 - 20240919 - 太湖军I名 +.jpg
 
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Deino said:
Pardon? Why do you think it is already assigned and then to the PLAAF?



It is not assigned yet! It has the typical CFTE serial numbers and here 6233 fits nicely to the second prototype carrying 6232.
Even more the number fits nicely into the typical Z-20/21-testing pattern with the Z-20J prototypes as 621x and the Z-20F prototypes are numbered 622x.
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Sorry my fault, I was looking at it's 4-digit bort number and thought it was assigned to PLAAF already
 
Thanks Deino, I did not know that it would be the PLAN Marine Corp and that it would fly of the LHDs. Makes sense really coming to think about it.
 
Is that meant to replace the Z-10? Or augment it? Seems weird to me that they've already got an AH in service and you could probably get more of them onto an LHD.
 
Interesting. The Chinese seems to have been a lot slower in matching helicopter technology than fixed wing technology. They were flying fighters that were roughly equivalent to early 1970 vintage F-16 and F-15 by around the year 2000. But it took them until 2020s to fly something roughly equivalent to late 1970 vintage S-70 and AH-64.
 
Deino said:
Finally a truly good and halfway clear image of China’s new heavy attack helicopter. And the more we see, the more it looks indeed like a Z-20 with AH-64D elements.

(Image via @水雷屋 from Weibo)

View attachment 723950
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Love seeing China joining the more heavily armed and presumably armored attack helicopters like the AH-64 and Mi-28.

Although I do wonder, what led to this development? With all the (some less, some more reasonable) criticism of attack helicopters over recent years it's certainly a bit of a surprise. And while contrary to popular believe AHs have proven to still be extremely effective, that's mostly in a defensive manner to counter armored assaults and similar offensive formations, like how Russian Ka-52s, Mi-24s and especially Mi-28s were used extensively to crush the momentum of the attempted Ukrainian counteroffensive.

But I don't really see such a scenario for China really. Neither Russia nor Mongolia would realistically attack China, with the latter really lacking the means and the former has a mutually beneficial relationship with China.

I can really only come up with two possible ideas: one would be a Taiwan scenario, where a heavy helo would be well suited to COIN and general peace keeping (as in literally preventing unrest) like how the US used Apaches in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Alternatively and this really is dependent on its performance characteristics, maybe it's meant to be stationed at the border with India? Didn't the Indians develop their newest, albeit much lighter, helicopter specifically for the mountainous border region with China? To take on infantry and light armored vehicles. So perhaps this is a much stronger reaction to this, maybe the development was necessary because the Z-10 didn't have the performance and survivability that's desired for that scenario.

I'd be interested to hear some thoughts on this. I'm probably miles off, but I'd still like to know what more knowledgeable people have to say on the matter.

One thing is sure though, it's rather good looking imo, I'd definitely put it next to an AH-64D and Mi-28NM on my shelf.
 
chuck4 said:
But it took them until 2020s to fly something roughly equivalent to late 1970 vintage S-70 and AH-64.
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Eh, their Z-20 is definitely much more in line with the very newest Blackhawk variants, so not really 1970s as it's internally as modern as it gets.

Same with the attack helo, it will most likely be internally up to the modern standard, it's just visually a bit more "archaic" due to its (projected) role. All heavy attack helicopters look rather chunky, with medium weight ones like the EC665, AW249 or Z-10 you get the sleek and futuristic looking ones.

So yeah, the external appearance doesn't tell much, the avionics, sensors, powerplant and other subsystems are what's important and I doubt anything there that's truly important reflects 1970s tech.
 
Man, I'm slow... I just noticed that this has a 5-bladed main rotor, not a 4-bladed main like the US equivalents.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
Yes, the same is true for the Chinese Su27. There will always be some differences.
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Changing number of rotor blades is not a small or simple modification, though.

I mean, yes, both the "Chinese Blackhawk" and this have 5 bladed rotors, which is different from the S-70 or H-60.
 
FighterJock said:
I would not see China going for a tilt-rotor yet Scott Kenny, look at how long it took the US with the V-22 program and all the accidents between the initial design and eventual in service. I would think that the next thing that China would try is a Cheyenne style compound helicopter that would be a much more likely less risky option to take.
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Actually... There are already there.
 

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That is really quick SUPER=BUG for the Chinese to develop and build a tilt-rotor.
 

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