VTOL On Demand Mobility

Mr.T said:
:cool:
Unique V-Tail design allows higher speed and improved safety - making Vertiia stand out from all other eVTOLS.
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Pretty much every eVTOL manufacturer has a claim along these lines for their project.

I'd note that this flight was not with the planned hydrogen fuel cells, but battery power, that's a major step short of their production standard vehicle, even by the normal standards of prototypes.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1862726569040781505
View: https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1862726569040781505

...This is the government of Pingyin County, Jinan, Shandong Province who sold for 924 million yuan (approximately $130 million) a 30-year concession to operate and maintain its low-altitude economic projects to a company called Shandong Jinyu General Aviation Co., Ltd....

- https://guancha.cn/economy/2024_11_29_757212.shtml…
- http://finance.people.com.cn/n1/2024/1128/c1004-40370800.html…
- https://news.sina.com.cn/c/2024-11-29/doc-incxtzmi1711070.shtml
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New regulatory concept?
 
Low altitude economy is regarded as a big thing in China. Fortunately, they don't focus so much on VTOL and electric planes. There will be plenty conventional airports all over the country which enable short delivery times. Beeing a combustion engine designer, I will take part in this development and I'm going to China next year....
 
Mike Pryce said:
Lilium laid off 1000 staff last Friday. https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/...ays-off-almost-all-staff-german-media-reports

Now this https://lilium.com/newsroom-detail/lilium-achieves-breakthrough-in-investor-search
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Really not a good advert for the insolvency company KPMG who’s job it is to minimise investor losses by finding a buyer, before they fire all the staff.

I also noticed quite a few senior managers have already announced they’re starting in positions at new companies , …and no, the widespread public criticism of their leadership at Lillium has had zero effect on their ability to get similar posts elsewhere.

It seems that only 700 of the 1000 staff have been invited back, wonder what their new contracts will look like? I would suggest not a good strategy for hiring the ones with key knowledge.

Anyway I still expecting the first conforming certified production article to have a real world range of less than 10km.
 
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Isn't that more related to German electoral schedule? (see it as the German way to push the dust under the carpet).
 
All -

eSTOL aircraft such as the impending Electra Aero EL9 will be able to fly to/from metropolitan areas, by operating from areas like empty parking lots ( for example ), and already existing inter-city airports. That means they can serve many urban air mobility needs/missions that some might otherwise think would be the sole domain of eVTOLs.

eSTOL aircraft battery electric load demands do not include the drain on batteries that
eVTOLs exhibit during vertical portions of their flight profile.

On-balance, the path to certification of eSTOL aircraft is less complicated that of an eVTOL. Pilot training & certification is also simpler for eSTOL aircraft, as their is no pure vertical flight operations to cover ( hover, transition to/from vertical flight; auto-rotation
et al ).

Training for eVTOL aircraft pilots will problematic whenever the intended training and/or operational vehicle has been designed to accommodate just one single pilot.
The example Electra Aero EL9 is designed to have 2 pilot crew stations, but can be operated by one pilot using the craft’s inclusion of “ Safe Single Pilot “ technology.

Passenger acceptance of eSTOL aircraft should bepretty straight forward, as they more-closely resemble aircraft shapes the majority the public is already familiar with vs eVTOLs which tend to have unfamiliar and even exotic profiles, planforms; and shaping.


With regards,
357Mag
 
Sounds a bit hash, but why did they keep 1000 emboyees when all the development work was done and just the last bit of assembling and testing was lacking? When it was clear, that they were running out of money they did nothing to reduce the cash burn rate
 
The FAA measured downwash and outwash velocities in tests with three eVTOL designs. Max velocities of up to 100 mph were measured versus a safe velocity of 34.5mph.

Electric Vertical Takeoff and Landing (eVTOL) Downwash and Outwash Surveys

Abstract As part of the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) effort to establish vertiport design guidance for facilities intended to accept powered lift and special class rotorcraft, it is of growing importance to determine the risk factors related to vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL)...
www.airporttech.tc.faa.gov
 
Reaper said:
Nobody posted about volocopter‘s insolvency?
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Meant to, forgot.

www.flightglobal.com

Volocopter enters insolvency following cash shortfall

Advanced air mobility developer Volocopter has entered insolvency proceedings, as it pledges to continue its quest for funding.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

TLDR: It's pretty much an exact repeat of Lillium, funding dried up, so they entered insolvency on the 26th December, a court appointed administrator now takes over, with the company saying they hope to have worked out a restructuring plan by the end of February.
 
Mike Pryce said:
The FAA measured downwash and outwash velocities in tests with three eVTOL designs. Max velocities of up to 100 mph were measured versus a safe velocity of 34.5mph.

Electric Vertical Takeoff and Landing (eVTOL) Downwash and Outwash Surveys

Abstract As part of the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) effort to establish vertiport design guidance for facilities intended to accept powered lift and special class rotorcraft, it is of growing importance to determine the risk factors related to vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL)...
www.airporttech.tc.faa.gov
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To be fair Mike the downward velocity at 50ft was much lower, but sure right under the props is blowing a very hard gale.

Back in 2014 I went to Darpa for a conference and several of the folks leading these aircraft were there. No one seemed to be that concerned with higher disc loading as I recall.
 
Mike Pryce said:
The FAA measured downwash and outwash velocities in tests with three eVTOL designs. Max velocities of up to 100 mph were measured versus a safe velocity of 34.5mph.

Electric Vertical Takeoff and Landing (eVTOL) Downwash and Outwash Surveys

Abstract As part of the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) effort to establish vertiport design guidance for facilities intended to accept powered lift and special class rotorcraft, it is of growing importance to determine the risk factors related to vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL)...
www.airporttech.tc.faa.gov
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And as a reminder of the risk that poses:
www.cornwalllive.com

Inquest reopens today into tragic helicopter death

Jean Langan died in an incident at Derriford Hospital
www.cornwalllive.com www.cornwalllive.com

TLDR: Elderly lady was blown over and suffered fatal head injuries in the carpark adjacent to the hospital helipad as a Coastguard S92 was landing. It's not just inside the 'vertiports' that there may be a risk.
 
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DWG said:
And as a reminder of the risk that poses:
www.cornwalllive.com

Inquest reopens today into tragic helicopter death

Jean Langan died in an incident at Derriford Hospital
www.cornwalllive.com www.cornwalllive.com

TLDR: Elderly lady was blown over and suffered fatal head injuries in the carpark adjacent to the hospital helipad as a Coastguard S92 was landing. It's not just inside the 'vertiports' that there may be a risk.
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As a result of that incident the CAA did a study of downwash risks for eVTOLs to broaden knowledge and to identify possible risks.

CAP2576: Understanding the downwash/outwash characteristics of eVTOL aircraft | Civil Aviation Authority

www.caa.co.uk www.caa.co.uk
A follow-up study, CAP 3075, will be out soon. It involved measurements of S92 downwash, associated simulations, and cross comparison between real data and simulated data for helicopters and eVTOLs.
 
Recent downwash articles in Flight and Aviation Week:

www.flightglobal.com

FAA study reveals hurricane-force levels of eVTOL downwash and outwash

Electric air taxis could generate downwash equivalent to a hurricane-force wind and which "surpass most of the air velocity safety thresholds" in guidance, according to research caried out by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

FAA Underlines eVTOL Downwash Challenge For Vertiport Design | Aviation Week Network

The introduction of the downwash caution area (DCA) was the result of flight surveys of multiple prototype eVTOL aircraft for the FAA.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com

On a personal note, having your work mentioned in these two is very cool!
 
I wouldn't say 'another one bites the dust' exactly, but if an organisation as large as Airbus announced a 'pause', it's significant.

Airbus Helicopters To Pause CityAirbus NextGen Development | Aviation Week Network

Even said a strategic review of the program concluded that battery technology had not yet evolved to meet the minimum level of performance.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com

Speaking as the company announced its 2024 rotorcraft orders and deliveries on Jan. 27, Even said a strategic review of the program conducted at the end of 2024 concluded that battery technology had not yet evolved to meet the minimum level of performance needed to enter into service.

The same has been said of electric cars - everyone's waiting for some sort of breakthrough to allow greater energy density and lower weight with solid state batteries before they can be truly viable.
 
And they couldn't have run instead that on a sheet of paper and save their investors all that money (like many did)?
 
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TomcatViP said:
And they couldn't have run instead that on a sheet of paper and save their investor all that money (like many did)?
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Herd mentality was ruling the day for Airbus and others (fear of being left being behind in the green 'Great Leap Forward'), not to mention more than a bit of associated 'woke' mentality. Of course like the historical Great Leap Forward, disaster has ensued.
 
TomcatViP said:
And they couldn't have run instead that on a sheet of paper and save their investors all that money (like many did)?
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A great deal of Airbus’s research funding gets wasted on senior management ego and personal career development projects. Fake it until you get promoted out of the mess that you’ve made….. Use your new seniority to blame the failure on the sucker that replaced you and thought they were getting into something big.
 
Airbus never wanted to be first in line with this. They wanted to be a fast follower like other major OEMs. If a startups fails thats expected but I also wouldnt risk a successful company on a potentially short term hype.
 
Great downwash article in The Air Current.

A sensible take on a complex issue, and nice to have the work I've been lucky to lead at the UK CAA discussed in such an understanding way.

theaircurrent.com

The knowns and unknowns of eVTOL downwash

The Air Current separates fact from fiction on the topic of downwash, the latest hot button issue for the emerging eVTOL industry.
theaircurrent.com theaircurrent.com
 
Mike Pryce said:
Great downwash article in The Air Current.
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Aww man, my poverty level social Security disability income says the following ain't gonna happen,
Subscribe to continue reading...
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However, it does appear that I here in the USA can for free download and look at this 96 page PDF from the UK,

CAP2576: Understanding the downwash/outwash characteristics of eVTOL aircraft | Civil Aviation Authority

www.caa.co.uk www.caa.co.uk

This report presents initial findings of the effects of downwash for the safe operation of eVTOL air vehicles. It does not constitute regulation.

It is intended to provide a basis for further debate and discussion between manufacturers, operators and regulators. This will allow them to assess and, where needed, begin to address some of the issues found by this initial study of downwash in eVTOL operations.

The difference between our current knowledge on downwash, derives mainly from helicopters, and its potentially different impact on eVTOLs, is the focus of the report. The potential risks and mitigations that result from this difference are presented, with a focus on the safety of personnel on the ground.

Status:
Current
Review comment:
-
Version:
1
Version date:
17-Oct-2023
View file:

CAP2576 (6.6MB PDF)

This publication features in the following categories.

Airline operations
Airline safety
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From the PDF, a short bit,

Project Overview
Why we did it
The emergence of the electric Vertical Take-Off and Landing (eVTOL) sector has raised
some novel technical and operational challenges. It has also revived some old ones. In the
early 1960s the United States Marine Corps expected to replace helicopters with the latest
innovation, tilt wing VTOL aircraft (Fig.A). However, research showed these could blow
over equipment and people on the ground1. The Marines elected to stick with helicopters
for the next three decades2. The reason was the aerodynamic phenomenon of downwash.


Downwash is when the airflow used to support a vertical take-off and landing aircraft
during powered-lift flight flows down towards, and interacts with, the ground. When this
downwash meets the ground and turns outwards it is called outwash. Downwash and
outwash have been experienced for many decades by helicopter operators (Fig. B). In
helicopter operations they have caused fatalities as well as equipment losses and damage
to infrastructure. The United Kingdom’s Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has sustained a
programme of research into downwash in helicopter operations over a number of years.
This has led to current best practice recommendations for helicopter downwash3.


In 2022 it was recognised by the CAA that eVTOL aircraft may differ from helicopters in
two fundamental areas that affect downwash. Firstly, some eVTOLs have a higher ‘disc
loading’ than a helicopter of an equivalent weight (Fig. C). Disc loading is the sum of the
disc area of all of an air vehicle’s rotors divided by its weight. eVTOLs often use multiple
rotors or propellors, instead of a typical helicopter’s single large one. The result is that for
some designs their disc loading is greater that a helicopter of equivalent weight. Higher
disc loadings usually mean higher downwash velocities.
Click to expand...
 
www.flightglobal.com

Late-paying Lilium Aerospace angers employees after wages slip

Lilium's rescuer Mobile Uplift Corporation (MUC) has made a troubled start to its acquisition of the air taxi developer after employees that transferred to the new business were told their wages for January would be paid late.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

Seems like a masterclass in how to piss the entire company off at the new management.
 
But a late pay for what? What can 800 employees do in a soup'd up garage?
For example, Boom supersonic has a considerably lower number of staff.
 
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www.flightglobal.com

‘Time running out’ for Lilium Aerospace as funding fails to materialise

Embattled Lilium Aerospace faces a desperate race against time to secure funding required to maintain its short-lived existence, with the firm poised to file for insolvency on 14 February if the promised payment has not arrived.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

TLDR: Wages still haven't turned up, plan was to file for insolvency on the 14th if they weren't forthcoming, who actually owns the company and assets then becomes a legal bunfight. (Lillium's boss told the staff to not bother coming in and head for the mountains earlier in the week).

Another legal case is imminent over the sacking of 200 workers in December as the correct process for selecting who got the push may not have been followed. IG Metall is also questioning whether Lillium pre-insolvency and Lillium-as-rescued are really different companies.
 

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