Vought JTACMS/ATACMS (MGM-140)

[Ronny]

Especially with how both the newer AGM88s and the GMLRS cost roughly the same with similar success rates. And the ATCAMs was design with targeting the S300s ftom day one with the Air Force supporting it.

I’m kinda sad that they didn’t figure out how to put ATACMS on F-16

 

[Ronny]

AGM-88G is also internal carry for stealth fighters. Can a stealth fighter get within 300km of a SAM radar, pretty safe bet it can.

It can, but then there are not many AGM-88G around at the moment, and if we talk about AGM-88G then Army have their PRSM which still have longer range.

 

[Forest Green]

It can, but then there are not many AGM-88G around at the moment, and if we talk about AGM-88G then Army have their PRSM which still have longer range.

Dare I suggest an air-launched PrSM? Do that and you've already got your 1,000km range without any modifications.

 

[Ronny]

Dare I suggest an air-launched PrSM?

Seem do able, I mean we already have air launched LORA

 

[yahya]

Photos from sm showing allegedly intercepted ATACMS in Crimea on ca. 1 or 2 August 2024.

 

[sferrin]

That one is more believable as it (apparently) got hit before it dispensed its submunitions.

 

[Forest Green]

That one is more believable as it (apparently) got hit before it dispensed its submunitions.

And some shrapnel damage.

 

[Yellow Palace]

Don't think the UK has any Tornado ECRs. Italy has what, 16?

The UK doesn't have any Tornados at all any more. At the height of the force, 9 and 31 Squadrons trained for the SEAD role, but didn't have specialised aircraft.

Some decent insight into how the RAF viewed SEAD here:

https://www.raf.mod.uk/what-we-do/centre-for-air-and-space-power-studies/documents1/air-power-review-vol-3-no-3/

 

[NMaude]

I'm still surprised that the RAF retired its' Tornados as despite their age it's still a very capable attack aircraft. Assuming their retired Tornados haven't been ignominiously scrapped they could be refurbished and donated to the Ukrainians.

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

I'm still surprised that the RAF retired its' Tornados as despite their age it's still a very capable attack aircraft. Assuming their retired Tornados haven't been ignominiously scrapped they could be refurbished and donated to the Ukrainians.

I did an FOIA last year after it emerged that the Su-24s used the Tornado pylons for launching Storm Shadow/SCALP, and the majority of the fleet was disposed of shortly after being retired from what I can remember.

 

[GTX]

Back on topic folks

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Why was the naval ATACMs variant not taken all that seriously? Was it due to concerns about it being mistaken as a nuclear-tipped ballistic missile?

 

[Grey Havoc]

Along with a bit of 'Not Invented Here' I'd suspect.

 

[TomS]

Why was the naval ATACMs variant not taken all that seriously? Was it due to concerns about it being mistaken as a nuclear-tipped ballistic missile?

No, it just fell afoul of a combination of technical challenges (it's really too big to easily fit a Mk 41 cell) and budget. NTACMS was being considered right around the late 1990s, and then 9/11 happened and the Navy had no money for fire support because all the wars were too far inland to need it.

 

[Scott Kenny]

No, it just fell afoul of a combination of technical challenges (it's really too big to easily fit a Mk 41 cell) and budget. NTACMS was being considered right around the late 1990s, and then 9/11 happened and the Navy had no money for fire support because all the wars were too far inland to need it.

LockMart was pushing it as an option for Ohio SSGN launcher canisters, since it could easily fit 3 per Trident tube.

And it will technically fit into an SSN VLS, just barely. Have to change one cable from round to flat ribbon and change how the tail fins fold.

 

[Firefinder]

Now it can likely fit in any of the VPM or CPM equip ships.

but then the question by why used the 30 year old missile instead of the hypersonics or PRSM. Especially since the PrSM can fit in a Tac length MK41 basically as is if you put it in the canister.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Now it can likely fit in any of the VPM or CPM equip ships.

but then the question by why used the 30 year old missile instead of the hypersonics or PRSM. Especially since the PrSM can fit in a Tac length MK41 basically as is if you put it in the canister.

Because PrSM didn't exist in the late 1990s-early 2000s when LockMart was pushing Navalized ATACMS.

The hypersonics are now taking up the 3-per-tube slots in VPMs. And I don't think the USN is interested in any new missiles that are single-target only if they're not hypersonic. Crud, even Tomahawk Vs are dual-target, land or sea. SM6s are anti-aircraft, anti-missile, and anti-surface.

SM3s are likely the exception, and even they are nominally anti-ballistic and anti-satellite. They're nominally anti-hypersonic, too, for any time the hypersonic is out of the atmosphere. I strongly suspect the next SM3 upgrade is getting a Patriot or THAAD-like upper stage to increase capabilities against hypersonics, allow it to maneuver in the upper atmosphere.