USN VFX Competition (Alternatives to the F-14)

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Yep - but none of the drawings we have seem to have that feature so presumably it was dropped.

 

[aim9xray]

Some early Grumman 303 variants had folding stabilators, too. The feature must have fallen out during the cost:benefit trade studies.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Deck spotting model makes sense for that reason too.

 

[Stargazer]

My impression (but I could be wrong) is that these were simply a decorative addition to use as a stand for vertical display.

 

[allysonca]

From the collection a twin tail Convair swing wing.

 

[Pyrrhic victory]

Captures from a 1990 Grumman promotional video for VX-9 who were receiving the then new F-14D. In a history retrospective a pre 303-60 model, the 303-60, and single place 303 models are showcased.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT7PuWXji7Y
(starts at 4:52)

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Added to correct topic

 

[circle-5]

Factory Model of Convair Model 44 VFX.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Awesome! Looks like its seen some action

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

From Curtis Mooney on Facebook Group "The Greatest Planes That Never Were"

My dad, Walter E. Mooney, had a concept for the convair TFX (x44) which featured twin vertical tails and small canard surfaces just ahead of the engine intakes (just like the F-14), and his boss, Ed Heinemann (designer of the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk) killed it saying, "Mooney, I guarantee you one thing; the winning design will *not* have twin tails.

 

[Sundog]

From Curtis Mooney on Facebook Group "The Greatest Planes That Never Were"

My dad, Walter E. Mooney, had a concept for the convair TFX (x44) which featured twin vertical tails and small canard surfaces just ahead of the engine intakes (just like the F-14), and his boss, Ed Heinemann (designer of the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk) killed it saying, "Mooney, I guarantee you one thing; the winning design will *not* have twin tails.

Did Heinemann work at Convair? I hadn't realized that, as I always thought he worked just for Douglas. I guess I'll have to look more into his history.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

From Curtis Mooney on Facebook Group "The Greatest Planes That Never Were"

My dad, Walter E. Mooney, had a concept for the convair TFX (x44) which featured twin vertical tails and small canard surfaces just ahead of the engine intakes (just like the F-14), and his boss, Ed Heinemann (designer of the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk) killed it saying, "Mooney, I guarantee you one thing; the winning design will *not* have twin tails.

Did Heinemann work at Convair? I hadn't realized that, as I always thought he worked just for Douglas. I guess I'll have to look more into his history.

He worked there from around 1960 and was key to the F-111 and F-16 designs.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

From Curtis Mooney on Facebook Group "The Greatest Planes That Never Were"

My dad, Walter E. Mooney, had a concept for the convair TFX (x44) which featured twin vertical tails and small canard surfaces just ahead of the engine intakes (just like the F-14), and his boss, Ed Heinemann (designer of the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk) killed it saying, "Mooney, I guarantee you one thing; the winning design will *not* have twin tails.

Did Heinemann work at Convair? I hadn't realized that, as I always thought he worked just for Douglas. I guess I'll have to look more into his history.

He worked there from around 1960 and was key to the F-111 and F-16 designs.

According to Wikipedia:

Heinemann became Douglas's Chief Engineer in 1936. He remained with the company through 1960, when he left to join Guidance Technology. In 1962 he joined General Dynamics as Corporate Vice President of Engineering. In this position he oversaw the development of the F-16. He retired in 1973.

 

[Sundog]

Wow, I had no idea he had anything to do with the F-16. That's very cool.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

As Vice-President he wasn't involved at the design level of course. Bob Widmer was in charge and Harry Hillaker was the Chief Engineer.

 

[Stargazer]

New to me too... Thanks.

 

[circle-5]

North American Rockwell NR-323 from the NAA Los Angeles Division model shop.

 

[RAP]

Currently on Ebay, bid $365.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1960s-NORTH-AMERICAN-AVIATION-F-14-TOMCAT-COMPETITION-DESK-MODEL-AIRPLANE-/111380223905

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Other pics from auction. High quality pics, you can appreciate the shape very well.

 

[hesham]

Good shots,my dears Circle-5 and Paul.

 

[RAP]

Photo recon version of MD 225.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Great artwork you can see Phantom DNA there

 

[J.A.W.]

Other pics from auction. High quality pics, you can appreciate the shape very well.

Inlet ducting quite like the XB-70 there, rather than XF-108/Vigilante - what was the design Mach?

 

[RAP]

On page 9 of this topic there is a nice cutaway and a SAC which indicates Mach 2.4.

 

[Sundog]

On page 9 of this topic there is a nice cutaway and a SAC which indicates Mach 2.4.

I believe he is referring to the NAR Model 323, not the McDonnell Douglas Model 225. Or am I wrong J.A.W.?

 

[J.A.W.]

Not wrong S, it just seems a bit curious why NAA would go to that effort for a twin & adapt an XB-70 type inlet.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Currently on Ebay, bid $365.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1960s-NORTH-AMERICAN-AVIATION-F-14-TOMCAT-COMPETITION-DESK-MODEL-AIRPLANE-/111380223905

Winning bid:
US $1,224.99

 

[J.A.W.]

Well it made a pretty penny.. ..is the blurb claiming a design Vmax of Mach 2.2 accurate for that NAA proposal?

 

[circle-5]

Well here are some $1,224.99 photos of the NR-323...

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Sweet - thanks for sharing!

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Sundog]

Thanks for the pics. I'm glad someone here was able to get it.

 

[Delta Force]

It's interesting that the Sea Eagle is mentioned as being usable on a wider variety of aircraft carriers than the F-14 or even the F-4. The Essex class carriers were on the way out while the F-14 and F-15 programs were being conceived, but perhaps a Sea Eagle could have increased the utility of the Midway class (which couldn't operate the F-14) and have caused changes in the design of smaller Western aircraft carriers of the 1970s and later towards the STOBAR configurations.

Also, I'm wondering if the Sea Eagle could have replaced several types of aircraft in the USN through a modular approach using various FAST packs (there was a diagram elsewhere with several proposed types other than the fuel types adopted). Some could be wired for roles requiring significant electrical power, such as Phoenix interceptors or electronic warfare. Others could carry FAST pack fuel tanks (perhaps even refueling equipment), reconnaissance packs, etc.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

Attached is a photo of the North American design from the Tailhook collection - I changed the file name as it was originally ID'd as a TFX design.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Thanks Mark - Slightly better? Original is overly bright.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Works for me - thanks! Mark

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Good Day All!

Some McDonnell Model 225 Artwork - likely from the same artist for the artwork RAP posted earlier....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Good Day All -

Two more Model 225 drawings for your perusal....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Grey Havoc]

Good Day All -

Two more Model 225 drawings for your perusal....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

It's interesting that the first image shows the Model 225 landing on a Forrestal-class CV, i.e. USS Independence.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

From Aviation Week Archive: North American's VFX design team was led by Frank G Compton, the chief designer of the A-5 Vigilante.

http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19680520/18/2

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Higher res copy of this Rockwell VFX painting.

Source: AWST 20th May 1968