USAF/USN 6th Gen Fighter - General Discussion and Speculation

del. We're in a wrong topic for this, i guess :)
 
Grey Havoc said:
Not to take the thread too far off course, but it might be high time for advanced Cold War concepts such as the David Taylor Research Center's Fleet Concept 13 to be dusted off:
gettrdoc-1-64-gif.163598
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I think the surveillance situation has changed too much for that fleet concept to make sense.

The US and China have or will have within the next 5 years a pretty much global observation constellation in space.

And honestly, as someone who has driven a submarine at periscope depth for a long time, it's hard work. The forces are so big, and the control surfaces need to move relatively slowly to avoid cavitating the surface that computers struggle to control the planes.
 
Yes. A tethered drone will do better, surfacing as high as wanted out of the surface.
Oh, wait, where did I see that? ;)
 
Scott Kenny said:
I think the surveillance situation has changed too much for that fleet concept to make sense.

The US and China have or will have within the next 5 years a pretty much global observation constellation in space.

And honestly, as someone who has driven a submarine at periscope depth for a long time, it's hard work. The forces are so big, and the control surfaces need to move relatively slowly to avoid cavitating the surface that computers struggle to control the planes.
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Somehow I think that ASATs and the like will have something to say about the matter.

As for semi-submersible designs, they can be quite stable, submerged and otherwise. Indeed, one of the designs originally proposed for the CVNX requirement back in the 1990s was a semi-submersible one; however certain admirals and other officials in the navy were apparently aghast at the very idea, and deliberately misled Congress to ensure that the design would not proceed further (in particular a little matter of failing to mention the unusual way that the displacement of semi-submersible designs are calculated, I believe).
 
Grey Havoc said:
Somehow I think that ASATs and the like will have something to say about the matter.
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That is hard to imagine. The NRO launched 140+ satellites in 7 launches just since last May. The PRC launched a hundred military satellites in 2023 and 2024, making up about half their total objects launched in that period. Short of some kind of very elaborate ECM that heavily degrades a whole region(s) of space, it is hard to imagine these kinds of numbers being effectively counted by ASAT weapons.

Both sides also have or will have extremely low signature HALE UAVs, and likely soon long endurance USVs/UUVs (some are already operated by TF59).
 
donnage99 said:
Nice. Looks like a Boeing design from previously publicly released graphics
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Image is blurry but if this reflects the actual design then we can conclude:

1) Diamond wings.
2) No tails.
3) Two engines.
4) Dorsal intakes.

Also of interest is the background image. Almost looks like an RCS polar plot.
 
Josh_TN said:
Short of some kind of very elaborate ECM that heavily degrades a whole region(s) of space, it is hard to imagine these kinds of numbers being effectively counted by ASAT weapons.
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You may be surprised.
 
yeetmahboi said:
X-37B with an adapted payload bay for ASM-135s would be real handy for dealing with the satellite threat. I wonder how long would such a solution need to materialize.
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It's not just how long such a solution would need to mature, it's also how long it would to take for such a solution to successfully launch on demand and recover once materialized. The rule of thumb is that if you want quick reaction times across a whole multitude of orbits, stay away from reusable elements.
 
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https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...ration-fighter-contract-this-week-2025-03-25/

Boeing, Northrop Grumman await US Navy next-generation fighter contract this week, sources say
By Mike Stone
March 25, 202512:08 PM GMT+3Updated 8 hours ago

WASHINGTON, March 25 (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy is expected to announce this week who will build its next-generation carrier-based stealth fighter - a program worth hundreds of billions over its lifetime and a key part of plans to confront China, people familiar with the decision said.
The F/A-XX program is one of several advanced capabilities the U.S. military is developing to counter China's growing assertiveness in the Indo-Pacific region. The contract would be worth single-digit billions of dollars in the short term, and potentially hundreds of billions over the decades it is expected to run.
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The Navy will choose one winner for the engineering and manufacturing development (EMD) phase - a significant milestone for the F/A-XX, which is meant to replace the Navy's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fleet.
The new jet is expected to feature advanced stealth capabilities, improved range and endurance, and the ability to integrate with both uncrewed combat aircraft and the Navy's carrier-based air defense systems.
The U.S. Navy did not respond to a request for comment. The new Secretary of the Navy, John Phelan, was confirmed on Monday.

The competition has been intense, with Boeing Co (BA.N), opens new tab, Lockheed Martin (LMT.N), opens new tab, and Northrop Grumman Corp (NOC.N), opens new tab submitting detailed proposals and prototypes for evaluation.
Boeing, hit hard by a recent labor strike, engineering layoffs, problems with its Starliner capsule and the troubled KC-46 tanker program, got a recent shot in the arm when it won the Air Force's F-47 contract. It also produces the MQ-25 carrier-based uncrewed refueling aircraft.
Taking on two fighter jet programs may offer economies of scale if the company can make larger purchases of raw materials and share technology between the aircraft.
Northrop Grumman has a strong track record of producing innovative aircraft, including the B-2 and B-21 stealth bombers.
Lockheed Martin was initially seen as a strong contender, but the company struggled to meet the Navy's specific requirements, including the need for a more advanced radar system and improved carrier landing capabilities. Reuters reported on March 4 that Lockheed had been eliminated from the competition, but the Navy has not made a formal announcement.
The first production jets are expected to enter service in the 2030s, while F/A-18s are expected to remain in service into the 2040s.

Reporting by Mike Stone in Washington. Editing by Gerry Doyle
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joewee said:
Without any inside info I would have guessed NG for Navy and B for AF.
However, based on what I've been told, I'm under the impression that B will win both.

I wrote this on March 13th.

Another tidbit. I was told that Hegseth told the VCNO that the AF announcement will come first. So it should come out this coming week.

Unless of course someone in the White House objects to one winner takes both .... so I will read any delay beyond the end of March as a last minute change: NG in, B out.

Strange things like this have happened before. The team of Grumman and Beech were verbally notified that they had won the VTXTS program. A few days later, McDonnell Douglas teamed with BAe were announced as the winner. Few knew that Reagan and Thatcher had just cut a deal. The UK buys Trident C3 (D4?) missiles and the US buys a navalized Hawk trainer.
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Emmm.....Reuters released a bit of news, the Navy will announce the winner of the F/A-XX this week. So Boeing might win both.

 
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Should we expect another White House announcement for FA-XX? Fighter shown preparing to take off from a Nimitz class AC with loads of steam hiding all important details. Northrop Grumman kind of did that already a few years back with its FAXX teaser
 
bring_it_on said:
Should we expect another White House announcement for FA-XX? Fighter shown preparing to take off from a Nimitz class AC with loads of steam hiding all important details. Northrop Grumman kind of did that already a few years back with its FAXX teaser
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I see well Northrop in a pole position , but I think Lockheed is still in the game with a classifed new capacity in the work , we live historic time in Aviation.
 
With what the navy has said about F/A-XX placing more emphasis on strike. It’ll be funny if the USN’s aircraft is closer to the PLAAFs J-36 and USAF NGAD is closer to the PLANs J-XS.

With F/A-XX being a total replacement for the bugs. I’m expecting something two seater, big weapons bay for strike and something that places less emphasis on maneuver compared to the F-47
 
Sevrent said:
With what the navy has said about F/A-XX placing more emphasis on strike. It’ll be funny if the USN’s aircraft is closer to the PLAAFs J-36 and USAF NGAD is closer to the PLANs J-XS.

With F/A-XX being a total replacement for the bugs. I’m expecting something two seater, big weapons bay for strike and something that places less emphasis on maneuver compared to the F-47
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No way that a large single delta made it through Navy selection IMOHO.
 
sferrin said:
Why does it being announced this week indicate Boeing will win?
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I believe the think is that Boeing was favored and that if the announcement was put off, that indicates a reconsideration and change to NG. I do think Boeing the favorite if NG does not have a demonstrator.
 
TomcatViP said:
No way that a large single delta made it through Navy selection IMOHO.
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Not in terms of literal layout. I mean big picture CONOPs. A large multi-role double seater aircraft with a big IWB for both strike munitions and Air to Air missiles sounds a whole lot like what the J-36 is
 
Sevrent said:
Not in terms of literal layout. I mean big picture CONOPs. A large multi-role double seater aircraft with a big IWB for both strike munitions and Air to Air missiles sounds a whole lot like what the J-36 is
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J-36 is really large, probably significantly handicapped in agility, and probably as stealthy as Chengdu could get(main design effort).

Last point alone kills the analogy from what we know.
Unlikely.
 
Hi all,

Quick question about the flying prototypes / demo aircraft.

I was always under the impression that Area 51 was just for USAF and other agencies, not USN, so has that changed? Has Area 51 now become multi force base or is it just that the manufacturers rent out the hanger and airspace??

Cheers
 
It really makes you wonder if the nine month delay was partially worry about these programs being cancelled by Trump for being approved by the Biden administration? The NGAD being called the F-47 is another hint at this. I just find it hard to believe they hit pause for something that had been studied for so long and was ready to be approved, only for them to come to same conclusions they had before and wait for the next administration to approve.
 
bob225 said:
Hi all,

Quick question about the flying prototypes / demo aircraft.

I was always under the impression that Area 51 was just for USAF and other agencies, not USN, so has that changed? Has Area 51 now become multi force base or is it just that the manufacturers rent out the hanger and airspace??

Cheers
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Area 51 is a USAF facility, but they can let others play in their space if they want to. Just like the Air Force could use AUTEC if they had a need to.
 
Ainen said:
J-36 is really large, probably significantly handicapped in agility, and probably as stealthy as Chengdu could get(main design effort).

Last point alone kills the analogy from what we know.
Unlikely.
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Do to it's large size, the J-36 seems to be a strike platform and maybe has a standoff interceptor role as well. The J-36 may have been developed primarily to counter and attack our carrier strike groups specifically our carriers in which China has always voiced this opinion.
 
dark sidius said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1904134002807554550
View: https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1904134002807554550

F-47, this week FA/XX contract and something else in the hands of Lockheed it is crazy :eek: China start the hostility with the show of J-36 , USA strike back with 3 advanced plane AWESOME.
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LM and NG I assume have a number of "significant" classified efforts going on. LM ADP and last time I spoke with a former NG colleague who is a Director has been at ADP for some time, ADP is having trouble getting in the door for the work they have. NG is in the same boat, along with B-21, lots of activity in the advanced projects arena.
 
Hydroman said:
LM and NG I assume have a number of "significant" classified efforts going on. LM ADP and last time I spoke with a former NG colleague who is a Director has been at ADP for some time, ADP is having trouble getting in the door for the work they have. NG is in the same boat, along with B-21, lots of activity in the advanced projects arena.
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Realy crazy time coming, a lot of advanced projects in the same time never seen that.
 
I guess Raytheon busted out some spooky capable EM kung fu and those canards really are pretty helpful for a slower, lower AOA trap.

“Lockheed Martin was initially seen as a strong contender, but the company struggled to meet the Navy's specific requirements, including the need for a more advanced radar system and improved carrier landing capabilities”

From Reuters F/A-XX referenced in old thread.
 

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