red admiral said:dark sidius said:A lot of words but not real information on the futur system
We can wait to see what's in Parts III and IV...
And how they've come up with the "penetrating counter air" label instead of "6th generation fighter" and whether these are actually different
Sen. John McCain's proposed Pentagon blueprint to hike the U.S. military budget would boost Air Force modernization spending by $55 billion between fiscal years 2018 and 2022 compared to the Defense Department's current forecast, including $11 billion for accelerated Joint Strike Fighter procurement and an additional $7.6 billion for a new penetrating counter-air capability.
$7.6 billion over five years that prototype money no?dark sidius said:;D Great news the change is coming ...
This special notice is for planning purposes only. No white papers, proposals, or responses are requested at this time. In the next 60 days the Air Force Research Lab anticipates issuing a Broad Agency Announcement (BAA) for research and development on the subject of Next Generation Thermal, Power, and Controls (NGT-PAC) on FedBizOpps.gov (https://www.fbo.gov/). A draft of the BAA (subject to change) is provided for planning purposes.
Added: Jan 05, 2017 9:05 am
Next generation fighter aircraft are likely to require an unprecedented level of advanced capabilities in order to ensure air superiority in contested environments. These capabilities, which include advanced electronic attack, high-power laser, and future low-observability features, are expected to require as much as 10x higher power levels than current tactical systems.
These power system demands requirements present multifaceted electrical and thermal challenges in an integrated flight worthy system. Modern vehicle design factors including composite aircraft skins, higher efficiency engines, and highly embedded vehicle systems compound these challenges. This solicitation seeks research in order to better understand the challenges and opportunities of, and advance the state of the art in, next generation aircraft thermal, power, and controls.
bobbymike said:$7.6 billion over five years that prototype money no?dark sidius said:;D Great news the change is coming ...
A multipurpose radar test bed is being developed to advance techniques for the next-generation of airborne radars. The test bed will become operational in 2016 and will initially be used to study the performance of arbitrarily flexible waveforms.
bring_it_on said:Lincoln Labs in their 2015 AR had a multi purpose radar test bed that they were working at putting to use by 2016. Has anyone come across any additional information on it and whether this has been put to use or not?
A multipurpose radar test bed is being developed to advance techniques for the next-generation of airborne radars. The test bed will become operational in 2016 and will initially be used to study the performance of arbitrarily flexible waveforms.
bobbymike said:Penetrating Electronic Attack May Come Before Counter-Air Platform
—John A. Tirpak 2/27/2017
Gen. Hawk Carlisle thinks the Air Force’s nascent Penetrating Electronic Attack aircraft may actually go operational before the Penetrating Counter-Air platform that will notionally succeed or complement the F-22 and F-35 in the air superiority role. The Air Combat Command chief, speaking with defense reporters on Friday, said the PEA, which he described as a “partnership platform” with the F-22, F-35, and B-21 bomber, could be “autonomous or semi-autonomous” and escort strike aircraft going into the most heavily defended enemy airspace as a stand-in jammer. The Navy, he reiterated, has a need to do a different kind of electronic warfare, and USAF and the Navy are working out who will do what with regards to electronic warfare through the Joint Air Dominance Organization, set up to apportion such roles and missions. Carlisle said he’d like both the PCA and PEA programs to “move to the left,” meaning appear in service earlier than now planned. “Sooner would be better,” he added, noting the electronic combat environment is getting “intense.”
dark sidius said:Futur look beautiful for the USAF a new B-21 , F-35 , PEA and PCA and with the increase of defense spending its a better chance to see it happen sooner with the new administration.
I believe budget bills need only 51 votes IIRC.bring_it_on said:the Congress will pass given the 60 vote threshold in the Senate and this was as true for Obama as it is for Trump.
bobbymike said:I believe budget bills need only 51 votes IIRC.bring_it_on said:the Congress will pass given the 60 vote threshold in the Senate and this was as true for Obama as it is for Trump.
dark sidius said:I think 600 F-35 A will be the good number for air force , and after this number jumping in the PCA and PEA program will be the response to the futur threat. 150/200 PCA with the new B-21 the F-35A and the F-22 will stay the most powerfull Air Force in the world. It will make one thousand of stealth combat plane and a rest of 4th gen fighter+ F-18 SH for Navy for sure its a great force.
It will make one thousand of stealth combat plane and a rest of 4th gen fighter+ F-18 SH for Navy for sure its a great force.
bring_it_on said:bobbymike said:I believe budget bills need only 51 votes IIRC.bring_it_on said:the Congress will pass given the 60 vote threshold in the Senate and this was as true for Obama as it is for Trump.
That would be true if you stay within the BCA cap which for FY18 is at $549 Billion. To go beyond the caps you need the 60 vote threshold. The Trump campaign at one point like most of the GOP candidates in the field wanted to repeal the budget control act. Then this transitioned to repealing elements that capped defense spending. I don't know when exactly that lost favor within the administration but the the D-OMB could have played a role.
As things stand with Trump's budget he is doing exactly what Obama did when it came to defense spending i.e going past the budget caps and asking the Congress to approve. As a negotiating position his first proposal is a mere 3% higher than Obama's and once the dust settles that is likely going to be the extent of the "military spending hike" in FY18. A far cry from what is required to go where he has indicated he wants to go in his rhetoric. With Mulvaney at OMB, the OCO route does not look as secure either as it did in the years past.
bobbymike said:All the articles I read don't mention the 60 votes which they usually add as in "It will be tough to pass because they need democrats to vote" I'm pretty sure any budget matter is 51 votes.
bring_it_on said:As long as the Democrats (or republicans in future administrations) could make sure that th 60 vote threshold is not met in the Senate, they could dictate the domestic spending unless the Republicans were willing to compromise on defense and approve or ask for budgets within the budget caps.
George Allegrezza said:bring_it_on said:As long as the Democrats (or republicans in future administrations) could make sure that th 60 vote threshold is not met in the Senate, they could dictate the domestic spending unless the Republicans were willing to compromise on defense and approve or ask for budgets within the budget caps.
The other option, of course, is more revenue through a tax increase.
I crack myself up.
The Air Force is seeking an immediate and dramatic increase in funding for its Next-Generation Air Dominance program, suggesting plans for a new penetrating counterair capability -- also referred to as a sixth-generation fighter -- are poised to accelerate if Congress can provide an additional $147 million in fiscal year 2017 above the $20 million the service originally requested.
The service is seeking the new funds to support work on a follow-on to the F-22A Raptor as part of the Pentagon's amended FY-17 budget request -- the Trump administration's gambit to add $30 billion to military coffers, a proposal that faces a number of potential political roadblocks in Congress.
Still, the Air Force -- in budget documents supporting the additional FY-17 spending proposal -- disclosed a previously unknown need for $167.5 million for the Next Generation Air Dominance project, a 735 percent increase compared to the service's original $20.5 million request for the project submitted to Congress in February 2016.
With the exception of an unnamed, classified project, the additional funding for Next-Generation Air Dominance is the single-largest increase in the research and development accounts in the proposed $30 billion hike in FY-17 military spending.
At press time, an Air Force spokesman did not respond to a request for an explanation for the increased spending.
The Air Force planned in FY-17 for a major milestone review for the Next-Generation Air Dominance project -- a materiel development decision -- during which the service would to seek permission to proceed with an analysis of alternatives. The plan was to get an MDD decision during the second quarter of FY-17, between January and March.
In lieu of traditional weapon system acquisition milestones, the Air Force schedule -- beginning in FY-17 -- calls for an annual presentation of "strategic planning choices."
As part of the preparation for the material solutions analysis phase of the project, the Air Force planned to identify "candidate technologies early in the analysis process," the service told Congress last year.
The Air Force's original FY-17 budget request forecast a need for $12.8 million in both FY-18 and FY-19. That forecast now appears to be overcome by events.
Mark Gunzinger, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessment, said the change in the funding profile implies the Air Force is seeking money for more than just the AOA, perhaps looking to finance some technology development in an effort to speed things along.
"Some initial money that might help accelerate the penetrating counterair effort," Gunzinger said. "If that is their intent, I would applaud them."
The Air Force has been building the case to launch a new air dominance capability for years, following approval in 2011 by the Pentagon's top brass of a requirement for a follow-on capability to the F-22A.
"Sir, we started that long ago," Maj. Gen. Jerry Harris, deputy chief of staff for strategic plans, programs, and requirements, told the House Armed Services Committee Feb. 16 when asked when the service should start working on a sixth-generation fighter.
Last year, the Air Force published a new blueprint for how it plans to ensure air superiority that called for a "penetrating counterair capability" -- which service officials said would be the focus of the Next-Generation Air Dominance analysis of alternatives. As part of the AOA, the service is expected to explore platform, sensor and weapon combinations that optimize operational range, payload, survivability and affordability, including experimentation on concepts like arsenal planes, loyal wingmen and others.
That blueprint concluded the service "must reject thinking focused on 'next-generation' platforms" because such focus can create "a desire to push technology limits with the confines of a formal program." Such objectives drive risk and can lead to cost growth and schedule delays.
As an alternative, the document advocates leveraging experimentation and prototyping "to more rapidly infuse advanced technologies into the force," an acquisition approach Deputy Defense Secretary Bob Work has encouraged as part of his campaign to orchestrate a hunt for a so-called Third Offset Strategy that would identify new capabilities to bolster conventional deterrence.
Ian33 said:Unnamed classified project? That'll be Boeings Penetrating Electronic Attack airframe.
FighterJock said:Wonder how long the PCA will last as an all out air dominance fighter before someone in the military suggests putting air to ground ordinance on it? That is what happened to the F-22.
Those details aren't available publicly yet, all we have so far is that the request jumped up and that the previous leadership was pushing technology demonstrators.Sundog said:Ian33 said:Unnamed classified project? That'll be Boeings Penetrating Electronic Attack airframe.
How do you know it's Boeing's?
Also, the increased funding, would that be for the new fighter demonstrator that DARPA was reportedly pushing?
bring_it_on said:The Air Force is seeking an immediate and dramatic increase in funding for its Next-Generation Air Dominance program, suggesting plans for a new penetrating counterair capability -- also referred to as a sixth-generation fighter -- are poised to accelerate if Congress can provide an additional $147 million in fiscal year 2017 above the $20 million the service originally requested.
bring_it_on said:With the exception of an unnamed, classified project, the additional funding for Next-Generation Air Dominance is the single-largest increase in the research and development accounts in the proposed $30 billion hike in FY-17 military spending.
This article is a flawed analysis of the March 2017 amendment to the FY17 RDTE budget request and as such is misleading.
The "unnamed classified project" is actually the "bucket" for all classified USAF RDTE programs. There is no single program requesting more money than 0207110F NGAD.