USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA, ASFS news
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Sixth-Gen Fighter Appears in FY’15 Budget
The Air Force's Fiscal 2015 budget request includes $15.7 million to start work on a sixth generation fighter to succeed the F-22, according to budget documents. Air Force Undersecretary Eric Fanning told reporters in Washington, D.C., Tuesday that maintaining USAF’s technological edge was a “guiding principle” in building the budget, and there was recognition that “to develop these types of platforms requires long leads.” Even as the Air Force is producing the fifth-gen F-35, he said, “We need to be investing in the research and science and technology necessary to be looking at sixth generation
The Air Force's Fiscal 2015 budget request includes $15.7 million to start work on a sixth generation fighter to succeed the F-22, according to budget documents. Air Force Undersecretary Eric Fanning told reporters in Washington, D.C., Tuesday that maintaining USAF’s technological edge was a “guiding principle” in building the budget, and there was recognition that “to develop these types of platforms requires long leads.” Even as the Air Force is producing the fifth-gen F-35, he said, “We need to be investing in the research and science and technology necessary to be looking at sixth generation
Sentinel36k
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dark sidius
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Yes 15.7 millions it's little money for a start but now there is a line in budget about NGAD and in the futur year surely it increase 
Colonial-Marine
UAVs are now friend, drones are the real enemy.
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By comparison how much money has been set aside for work relating to the Navy's F/A-XX thus far? Is the F/A-XX also under the NGAD label?
The way our country is going has me quite certain that neither program will come to fruition anywhere near the optimistic 2030 dates.
Boeing's concepts for either an "optionally manned" or UCAV variant of their F/A-XX are interesting but I wonder if that is the best use of a UCAV on a carrier deck. Wouldn't having a lower cost, subsonic and smaller design be more suited for the Navy's need? It would be something that you could jam a lot of inside a carrier. I suppose some of this intersects with the Navy's confusion over what they want from UCLASS. The speed difference could limit cooperation with supersonic aircraft in the air-to-air role.
In the event either the USAF's or USN's next-gen fighter effort's get anywhere I wonder if Japan would be interested in getting involved versus going forward with their own successor to the F-15J? Maybe Australia could be a potential customer too? Other than those two countries I don't see huge export prospects presuming the F-35 mostly succeeds.
The way our country is going has me quite certain that neither program will come to fruition anywhere near the optimistic 2030 dates.
Boeing's concepts for either an "optionally manned" or UCAV variant of their F/A-XX are interesting but I wonder if that is the best use of a UCAV on a carrier deck. Wouldn't having a lower cost, subsonic and smaller design be more suited for the Navy's need? It would be something that you could jam a lot of inside a carrier. I suppose some of this intersects with the Navy's confusion over what they want from UCLASS. The speed difference could limit cooperation with supersonic aircraft in the air-to-air role.
In the event either the USAF's or USN's next-gen fighter effort's get anywhere I wonder if Japan would be interested in getting involved versus going forward with their own successor to the F-15J? Maybe Australia could be a potential customer too? Other than those two countries I don't see huge export prospects presuming the F-35 mostly succeeds.
Dragon029
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@Colonial-Marine
Remember the timeline of this project; by 2030 or 2040, UCAS will undoubtedly have greater use and with that, they'll be expected to begin assisting in further duties like maintaining air supremacy through more capable A2A capabilities. As part of that, and as competitor nations start building their own advanced UCAS, it's likely we'll see generations of 'drones' like we have generations of fighter; first we had Reapers, soon we'll have Taranis/UCLASS, later we have unmanned NGAD, etc; all so that as we slowly transition away from manned fighters, we don't begin to accept attrition warfare again.
Remember the timeline of this project; by 2030 or 2040, UCAS will undoubtedly have greater use and with that, they'll be expected to begin assisting in further duties like maintaining air supremacy through more capable A2A capabilities. As part of that, and as competitor nations start building their own advanced UCAS, it's likely we'll see generations of 'drones' like we have generations of fighter; first we had Reapers, soon we'll have Taranis/UCLASS, later we have unmanned NGAD, etc; all so that as we slowly transition away from manned fighters, we don't begin to accept attrition warfare again.
Dragon029
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Not many are, but the way I see it, as UAS begin to think more independently, eventually they'll be as prone to EW as human pilots, so long as our fighters remain reliant on FBW and digital navigation.
Note that I'm not saying they'll be that competent anytime soon, but the fact is, NGAD isn't expected to be around for at least another ~20 years.
Note that I'm not saying they'll be that competent anytime soon, but the fact is, NGAD isn't expected to be around for at least another ~20 years.
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flateric said:
Isn't it just the folding of the wing? (since this concept is supposed to be carrier based).
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flateric said:
More info on the purpose then?
DrRansom
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Would it be possible that those wings are used to achieve the following two goals?
1) Stability in transonic and supersonic flight
2) VLO broadband stealth in subsonic cruise
That could help balance the competing desires for speed and better stealth than current generation aircraft, while recognizing that those two goals are in some way mutually incompatible.
1) Stability in transonic and supersonic flight
2) VLO broadband stealth in subsonic cruise
That could help balance the competing desires for speed and better stealth than current generation aircraft, while recognizing that those two goals are in some way mutually incompatible.
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okay thank you.
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Air Force Sets Plan To Launch Sixth-Gen Fighter Program In 2018
Posted: Mar. 13, 2014
In its budget proposal for fiscal year 2015, the Air Force is requesting $15.7 million for a next-generation, air dominance research and development project that would lay the groundwork for an acquisition program in fiscal year 2018. The new-start project, dubbed "2030+ Air Dominance AOS," would be used to finance three parallel projects. Those efforts would be tailored toward a Pentagon acquisition decision in the summer of 2015 on whether to begin an analysis of alternatives for a new capability, which would set up the start of a technology development phase in 2018, according to budget documents. "This program will provide capability improvements in the areas of persistence, survivability, lethality, connectivity, interoperability and affordability," the Air Force says in FY-15 budget documents published this week. "A wide variety of concept options are being considered for an Air Dominance platform." The service's FY-15 budget request would support "operational and system architecture development, maturation and risk reduction of advanced Air Dominance related technologies," the documents state, as well as integrated system concept development and demonstration.
The proposed schedule for the new program calls for a materiel development decision at the end of FY-15 and the launch of an analysis of alternatives by mid FY-16. In February 2013, the Joint Requirements Oversight Council approved the Air Force's new fighter requirement and directed the service to accomplish a joint analysis of alternatives with the Navy once the JROC approves the Navy's Next-Generation Air Dominance Family of Systems initial capabilities document, which is expected early this year.
The Air Force's new five-year spending plan suggests that the service will need to find additional funding for the proposed program soon. The service has slated $3.8 million for the project in FY-16 and after that the effort is unfunded. The Air Force's FY-15 budget plan calls for $9.7 million for concept development, including operational analyses, threat studies and "technology candidate assessment to identify operational concepts and technologies," the request states. The project would establish working groups to "methodically" assess candidate concepts "utilizing USAF directives and guidance." A parallel effort, a $5 million technical risk-reduction project, would produce "industry-informed government concepts" derived through work with prime contractors to "refine integration and trade space as well as operational analysis to inform system performance trades," according to the budget documents. The Air Force wants $1 million for a third initiative to fund studies that refine system concepts and operational and system architectures, "to include family of systems and system of systems." These studies, according to the budget documents, are required to support an analysis of alternatives. In December, an Air Force spokeswoman said the service expected the analysis of alternatives to examine "linkages such as communication, intelligence, and interoperability requirements as well as risks associated with technology, integration, and cost."
The Air Force expects the Office of the Secretary of Defense to direct it and the Navy, which is looking for an F/A-18E/F replacement in the 2030s, to explore a single solution as well as areas of commonality that might be pursued in the event a joint program is not warranted. The Air Force's FY-15 budget request also includes a separate $10.2 million applied research "aerodynamic systems technologies" funding request that would help the service "complete technology assessments on next-generation air dominance air vehicle concepts." The proposed 2030+ Air Dominance project is the fruit of more than eight years of Air Force thinking about future needs. In 2008, Air Force Air Combat Command raised concerns about far-term capability gaps stemming from "threat evolution, threat proliferation, and predicted service lives of current platforms," an Air Force official told InsideDefense.com in December. In 2009, the Office of the Secretary of Defense, in a classified memo locking in budget and five-year program decisions, directed the Air Force to "initiate an R&D effort towards a 6th generation TACAIR capability" in FY-12.
"In order to determine the technology areas on which to focus an R&D effort, ACC/A8 completed a Next Gen TACAIR Capabilities Based Assessment (CBA) in 2011 . . . [which] identified a number of air dominance capability gaps in the 2030-2050 time frame," according to the official. That gave rise to the 2030+ Air Dominance requirement the JROC endorsed in February 2013. Air Combat Command's Air Superiority Core Function Team at Langley Air Force Base, VA, has led the service's work on 2030+ Air Dominance, with support from officials at the Air Force Life Cycle Management Center at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, OH, and Eglin Air Force Base, FL. Their efforts have produced "technology surveys, technology roadmaps, trade space studies, detailed studies on specific technology areas such as propulsion, airframes, and directed energy, and basic representative aircraft concepts," according to the service official. Meanwhile, the Pentagon office responsible for monitoring the health of companies that comprise the defense industrial base warned in a 2011 study that without a "near-term" sixth-generation fighter aircraft program, the U.S. aerospace industry could forfeit a five-year technological advantage over foreign combat aircraft makers.
"Without a near-term investment decision to sustain . . . key engineering and manufacturing capabilities, the margin of competitive technological superiority is likely to shift against U.S. firms in many areas vital to the development of future TACAIR," reads a summary of the June 2011 "Next Generation TACAIR (F-X) Industrial Base Quick Look" study. In FY-14, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is scheduled to conclude a two-year, $10 million "air dominance" initiative spawned by the Pentagon's acquisition executive in response to concerns about the tactical aircraft industrial base. The DARPA initiative -- a two-year, $10 million effort -- is expected to identify threats and capability gaps through 2050, funding needs for Defense Department research and development efforts and "high-value" technologies and prototype opportunities. "After the study, it is envisioned that high-potential prototype programs will emerge to develop technologies for future air dominance," FY-14 budget documents state. "Early planning for future technologies will also help to define the funding baselines for DOD research and development and acquisition programs." -- Jason Sherman
Posted: Mar. 13, 2014
In its budget proposal for fiscal year 2015, the Air Force is requesting $15.7 million for a next-generation, air dominance research and development project that would lay the groundwork for an acquisition program in fiscal year 2018. The new-start project, dubbed "2030+ Air Dominance AOS," would be used to finance three parallel projects. Those efforts would be tailored toward a Pentagon acquisition decision in the summer of 2015 on whether to begin an analysis of alternatives for a new capability, which would set up the start of a technology development phase in 2018, according to budget documents. "This program will provide capability improvements in the areas of persistence, survivability, lethality, connectivity, interoperability and affordability," the Air Force says in FY-15 budget documents published this week. "A wide variety of concept options are being considered for an Air Dominance platform." The service's FY-15 budget request would support "operational and system architecture development, maturation and risk reduction of advanced Air Dominance related technologies," the documents state, as well as integrated system concept development and demonstration.
The proposed schedule for the new program calls for a materiel development decision at the end of FY-15 and the launch of an analysis of alternatives by mid FY-16. In February 2013, the Joint Requirements Oversight Council approved the Air Force's new fighter requirement and directed the service to accomplish a joint analysis of alternatives with the Navy once the JROC approves the Navy's Next-Generation Air Dominance Family of Systems initial capabilities document, which is expected early this year.
The Air Force's new five-year spending plan suggests that the service will need to find additional funding for the proposed program soon. The service has slated $3.8 million for the project in FY-16 and after that the effort is unfunded. The Air Force's FY-15 budget plan calls for $9.7 million for concept development, including operational analyses, threat studies and "technology candidate assessment to identify operational concepts and technologies," the request states. The project would establish working groups to "methodically" assess candidate concepts "utilizing USAF directives and guidance." A parallel effort, a $5 million technical risk-reduction project, would produce "industry-informed government concepts" derived through work with prime contractors to "refine integration and trade space as well as operational analysis to inform system performance trades," according to the budget documents. The Air Force wants $1 million for a third initiative to fund studies that refine system concepts and operational and system architectures, "to include family of systems and system of systems." These studies, according to the budget documents, are required to support an analysis of alternatives. In December, an Air Force spokeswoman said the service expected the analysis of alternatives to examine "linkages such as communication, intelligence, and interoperability requirements as well as risks associated with technology, integration, and cost."
The Air Force expects the Office of the Secretary of Defense to direct it and the Navy, which is looking for an F/A-18E/F replacement in the 2030s, to explore a single solution as well as areas of commonality that might be pursued in the event a joint program is not warranted. The Air Force's FY-15 budget request also includes a separate $10.2 million applied research "aerodynamic systems technologies" funding request that would help the service "complete technology assessments on next-generation air dominance air vehicle concepts." The proposed 2030+ Air Dominance project is the fruit of more than eight years of Air Force thinking about future needs. In 2008, Air Force Air Combat Command raised concerns about far-term capability gaps stemming from "threat evolution, threat proliferation, and predicted service lives of current platforms," an Air Force official told InsideDefense.com in December. In 2009, the Office of the Secretary of Defense, in a classified memo locking in budget and five-year program decisions, directed the Air Force to "initiate an R&D effort towards a 6th generation TACAIR capability" in FY-12.
"In order to determine the technology areas on which to focus an R&D effort, ACC/A8 completed a Next Gen TACAIR Capabilities Based Assessment (CBA) in 2011 . . . [which] identified a number of air dominance capability gaps in the 2030-2050 time frame," according to the official. That gave rise to the 2030+ Air Dominance requirement the JROC endorsed in February 2013. Air Combat Command's Air Superiority Core Function Team at Langley Air Force Base, VA, has led the service's work on 2030+ Air Dominance, with support from officials at the Air Force Life Cycle Management Center at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, OH, and Eglin Air Force Base, FL. Their efforts have produced "technology surveys, technology roadmaps, trade space studies, detailed studies on specific technology areas such as propulsion, airframes, and directed energy, and basic representative aircraft concepts," according to the service official. Meanwhile, the Pentagon office responsible for monitoring the health of companies that comprise the defense industrial base warned in a 2011 study that without a "near-term" sixth-generation fighter aircraft program, the U.S. aerospace industry could forfeit a five-year technological advantage over foreign combat aircraft makers.
"Without a near-term investment decision to sustain . . . key engineering and manufacturing capabilities, the margin of competitive technological superiority is likely to shift against U.S. firms in many areas vital to the development of future TACAIR," reads a summary of the June 2011 "Next Generation TACAIR (F-X) Industrial Base Quick Look" study. In FY-14, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is scheduled to conclude a two-year, $10 million "air dominance" initiative spawned by the Pentagon's acquisition executive in response to concerns about the tactical aircraft industrial base. The DARPA initiative -- a two-year, $10 million effort -- is expected to identify threats and capability gaps through 2050, funding needs for Defense Department research and development efforts and "high-value" technologies and prototype opportunities. "After the study, it is envisioned that high-potential prototype programs will emerge to develop technologies for future air dominance," FY-14 budget documents state. "Early planning for future technologies will also help to define the funding baselines for DOD research and development and acquisition programs." -- Jason Sherman
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Advanced Engine Program Pursued In Parallel With F-X Research
Posted: Mar. 13, 2014
The Air Force's plan to invest $1.4 billion in an advanced engine program over the next five years would have application for future Air Force and Navy air dominance capabilities.
The service's fiscal year 2015 budget includes $15.7 million to fund a next-generation, air dominance research and development program intended to pave the way for a fighter acquisition program in fiscal year 2018. Air Force spokeswoman Capt. Erika Yepsen told Inside the Air Force in a March 11 email that the service's plans to invest $1.4 billion in an advanced engine program were made with that future platform -- and a similar effort being explored by the Navy -- in mind.
"Adaptive engine technology is a new engine architecture offering approximately 25 percent reduced specific fuel consumption, leading to improved capability in contested environments and increased energy security," Yepsen said. "Adaptive engine technology will be explored as a potential benefit to the Air Force's 2030+ Air Dominance (F-X) and the Navy's Next Generation Air Dominance (FA-XX) efforts. . . . The next-generation engine program, a follow-on to [Adaptive Engine Technology Development, AETD], will further mature adaptive engine technologies through extensive ground testing to facilitate integration and flight testing. The emphasis is on proving advanced component and subsystem maturity prior to incorporation into major systems, thus reducing risk for future engine [engineering and manufacturing development] programs."
If Congress approves the service's plan, funding would begin in FY-16 at $50 million and increase sharply over the next few years to $670 million in FY-19. Yepsen noted that this plan assumes the service will be funded above sequestration levels through the future years defense plan.
Yepsen noted that the advanced engine program has implications beyond future fighter platforms.
"All future aircraft engines are likely to benefit from technologies proven through this program," she said. "In addition, the anticipated fuel savings could free up funds for the Air Force to invest in the modernization of other Air Force warfighter capabilities."
The next-generation engine plan is a follow-on to the AETD science and technology program that was initiated in FY-12, Yepsen said. Funding for that effort will continue through FY-15 and FY-16 and will total $198 million in those two years, according to budget justification documents.
AETD is one of three advanced engine research programs the Air Force Research Lab has been pursuing in recent years. Adaptive Versatile Engine Technologies (ADVENT) was the initial program to explore new engine technologies, which are being matured through AETD and continue to feed into AFRL's Highly Energy Efficient Turbine Engine (HEETE) program. AFRL wrapped up the conceptual design phase of HEETE earlier this year and will culminate in 2021 with a full engine demonstration. The program's goal is to increase fuel efficiency by 35 percent over efficiency levels in 2000. -- Courtney Albon
Posted: Mar. 13, 2014
The Air Force's plan to invest $1.4 billion in an advanced engine program over the next five years would have application for future Air Force and Navy air dominance capabilities.
The service's fiscal year 2015 budget includes $15.7 million to fund a next-generation, air dominance research and development program intended to pave the way for a fighter acquisition program in fiscal year 2018. Air Force spokeswoman Capt. Erika Yepsen told Inside the Air Force in a March 11 email that the service's plans to invest $1.4 billion in an advanced engine program were made with that future platform -- and a similar effort being explored by the Navy -- in mind.
"Adaptive engine technology is a new engine architecture offering approximately 25 percent reduced specific fuel consumption, leading to improved capability in contested environments and increased energy security," Yepsen said. "Adaptive engine technology will be explored as a potential benefit to the Air Force's 2030+ Air Dominance (F-X) and the Navy's Next Generation Air Dominance (FA-XX) efforts. . . . The next-generation engine program, a follow-on to [Adaptive Engine Technology Development, AETD], will further mature adaptive engine technologies through extensive ground testing to facilitate integration and flight testing. The emphasis is on proving advanced component and subsystem maturity prior to incorporation into major systems, thus reducing risk for future engine [engineering and manufacturing development] programs."
If Congress approves the service's plan, funding would begin in FY-16 at $50 million and increase sharply over the next few years to $670 million in FY-19. Yepsen noted that this plan assumes the service will be funded above sequestration levels through the future years defense plan.
Yepsen noted that the advanced engine program has implications beyond future fighter platforms.
"All future aircraft engines are likely to benefit from technologies proven through this program," she said. "In addition, the anticipated fuel savings could free up funds for the Air Force to invest in the modernization of other Air Force warfighter capabilities."
The next-generation engine plan is a follow-on to the AETD science and technology program that was initiated in FY-12, Yepsen said. Funding for that effort will continue through FY-15 and FY-16 and will total $198 million in those two years, according to budget justification documents.
AETD is one of three advanced engine research programs the Air Force Research Lab has been pursuing in recent years. Adaptive Versatile Engine Technologies (ADVENT) was the initial program to explore new engine technologies, which are being matured through AETD and continue to feed into AFRL's Highly Energy Efficient Turbine Engine (HEETE) program. AFRL wrapped up the conceptual design phase of HEETE earlier this year and will culminate in 2021 with a full engine demonstration. The program's goal is to increase fuel efficiency by 35 percent over efficiency levels in 2000. -- Courtney Albon
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GE Encouraged By USAF Interest In Next-Generation Engine Development
Posted: Mar. 27, 2014
While the details of the Air Force's near-term plans to develop a more capable and fuel-efficient engine for next-generation aircraft remain hazy, a General Electric executive said this week that the service's plans to invest $1.4 billion in the effort across the next five years are the next step toward bringing advanced engine technology to the warfighter.
If Congress approves the Air Force's request -- included in its fiscal year 2015 budget proposal -- funding would begin in FY-16 at $50 million and increase sharply over the next few years to $670 million in FY-19. This plan, of course, assumes the service will be funded above sequestration levels through the future years defense plan. Air Force officials have said the funds will be used to continue maturing technologies developed over the past seven years through two research and development programs -- Adaptive Versatile Engine Technologies (ADVENT) and Advanced Engine Technology Development (AETD). A senior Air Force official said this week that a follow-on to those efforts would not likely begin until 2017 or 2018.
GE Aviation has participated in both of those programs -- Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney have also been involved with various pieces of the technology demonstrations -- and the company's general manager for ADVENT and AETD, Dan McCormick, told Inside the Air Force in a March 25 interview that the company views the service's budget request as the "next stepping stone" in the technology maturation process.
"We're certainly excited to know that there's the belief that this technology can bring a true generational change in what propulsion can do for the warfighter," McCormick said. "It certainly shows the DOD support for what we've done so far and what the technology can do going forward from here. So we'll be working with both the DOD and the services as they ask us to participate in any discussions about what the program might look like."
ADVENT was initiated in 2007 as part of a Defense Department-wide advanced engine effort known as the Versatile Advanced Affordable Turbine Engine technology program. Under VAATE, the services were tasked with demonstrating fuel-efficient and affordable engine technologies and sharing their findings with one another. GE and Rolls-Royce were awarded contracts to develop technologies aimed at increasing engine fuel efficiency by 25 to 30 percent. In 2012, GE and Pratt & Whitney were awarded contracts to mature that technology through a follow-on effort, AETD.
ADVENT is in its final phase, which involves developing and testing a turbofan engine. AETD will continue through 2016, at which time funding for the advanced engine follow-on is scheduled to kick in.
The goal of these programs has always been to develop a suite of new engine technologies, mature those technologies and then transition them into a program of record that will deliver an advanced engine to the field. However, Air Force officials are still hesitant to offer a time line for when that transition will happen. Following a March 26 hearing of the House Armed Services Committee's tactical air and land forces subcommittee, Air Force Acquisition Executive Bill Laplante told ITAF the program will almost certainly require more than $1.4 billion in development funds.
On timing, Laplante said, "I think it depends on how well the technology develops."
"With good luck, $1 billion and good fortune in how we run the program, by 2020, could allow us to proceed toward a full-scale prototype and begin thinking about a competition for the full-scale prototype, and maybe technology insertion later in the decade," LaPlante said. "The idea of where one would go, say, at the end of this next phase, that's not going to be until about 2017, 2018."
McCormick said he anticipates this next phase of work will involve a ground demonstration for these technologies focused on reducing risk to prepare the technologies for an engineering and manufacturing development (EMD) program. "This additional program following AETD would very comfortably set us up to have a very high confidence level both in the technology and in the cost of those key elements for an EMD program," he said.
He noted that the technology GE and other companies are maturing through ADVENT and AETD could have implications not just for the engines of the future, but that certain technologies could be retrofitted into existing engines. Technologies involving new materials -- such as new composites aimed at helping the engine withstand high temperatures or 3-D component printing processes -- could be ideal candidates for engine retrofits on the F-16's F110, for example.
The Air Force Research Lab and GE are actively looking at ways to apply material innovations to existing engines, McCormick said, but improvements focused on fuel efficiency are not ideal candidates for retrofit efforts. Because the steep efficiency gains are tied to the installation of a suite of new capabilities rather than any single, stand-alone technology, McCormick said any real energy usage improvements to today's engines would essentially require that they be rebuilt.
"If you piecemeal these into a legacy engine, typically you aren't going to get the magnitude of fuel savings benefit that you are with this entire suite of technologies," he said.
ADVENT, AETD work ongoing
As the service's plans for the next phase of advanced engine work begin to take shape, ADVENT and AETD continue to make progress. GE began testing the turbofan engine it built through ADVENT last November and expects to finish testing in June or July. The engine will undergo 80 to 100 hours of testing and, once complete, GE engineers will remove it from the test cell, tear it down and assess its components. Final reports to validate the testing data will be delivered at the end of 2014, marking the completion of ADVENT.
McCormick said GE has started to receive preliminary feedback on the engine's performance.
"I'll say from a very high-level first assessment of it, the engine appears to be doing well," he said. "But obviously, it's going to take several months to gather a reasonable set of data and give the engineering team time to analyze the information and really compare it to all the pre-test predictions that we have."
Where ADVENT was a "pure science and technology" program, AETD is an effort to prove that when all of these technologies come together, they can deliver the expected performance, McCormick said. The company is working now to complete the architecture of an engine prototype that will eventually fit into an actual aircraft. When GE, Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney joined the competition for the AETD program, the Air Force instructed them to build their proposal to fit an existing aircraft engine of their choice. All three companies chose the F-35, and the winning companies, GE and Pratt & Whitney, are both building to those specifications.
"I think that's probably a pretty natural progression in that it is kind of the latest generation airplane for which there is a firm definition of what it is," McCormick said of the decision to work off of the F-35.
That architecture work will continue through the end of 2014 to prepare AETD to move from its conceptual phase to a preliminary design review. The end of this conceptual phase involves establishing "air-flow definitions, bearings, design, discs, structures, those types of things," McCormick said. "Really all the detailed design work that then has to go into this preliminary design review that we'll hold with AFRL later this year."
AETD is set to wrap up in FY-16, at which time funding for the next phase of advanced engine work will come into play if the Air Force's plan is approved.
"You want to have the next program kind of up and running as you transition out of AETD so that you can transition the manpower from the preliminary design phase that we'll do in AETD and move that into the next phase of design that we call the critical design review," McCormick said. "We were very encouraged that in the FY-15, FY-16 time frame, this next opportunity may exist that would allow a natural flow or natural progression to the next program." -- Courtney Albon and Gabe Starosta
Posted: Mar. 27, 2014
While the details of the Air Force's near-term plans to develop a more capable and fuel-efficient engine for next-generation aircraft remain hazy, a General Electric executive said this week that the service's plans to invest $1.4 billion in the effort across the next five years are the next step toward bringing advanced engine technology to the warfighter.
If Congress approves the Air Force's request -- included in its fiscal year 2015 budget proposal -- funding would begin in FY-16 at $50 million and increase sharply over the next few years to $670 million in FY-19. This plan, of course, assumes the service will be funded above sequestration levels through the future years defense plan. Air Force officials have said the funds will be used to continue maturing technologies developed over the past seven years through two research and development programs -- Adaptive Versatile Engine Technologies (ADVENT) and Advanced Engine Technology Development (AETD). A senior Air Force official said this week that a follow-on to those efforts would not likely begin until 2017 or 2018.
GE Aviation has participated in both of those programs -- Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney have also been involved with various pieces of the technology demonstrations -- and the company's general manager for ADVENT and AETD, Dan McCormick, told Inside the Air Force in a March 25 interview that the company views the service's budget request as the "next stepping stone" in the technology maturation process.
"We're certainly excited to know that there's the belief that this technology can bring a true generational change in what propulsion can do for the warfighter," McCormick said. "It certainly shows the DOD support for what we've done so far and what the technology can do going forward from here. So we'll be working with both the DOD and the services as they ask us to participate in any discussions about what the program might look like."
ADVENT was initiated in 2007 as part of a Defense Department-wide advanced engine effort known as the Versatile Advanced Affordable Turbine Engine technology program. Under VAATE, the services were tasked with demonstrating fuel-efficient and affordable engine technologies and sharing their findings with one another. GE and Rolls-Royce were awarded contracts to develop technologies aimed at increasing engine fuel efficiency by 25 to 30 percent. In 2012, GE and Pratt & Whitney were awarded contracts to mature that technology through a follow-on effort, AETD.
ADVENT is in its final phase, which involves developing and testing a turbofan engine. AETD will continue through 2016, at which time funding for the advanced engine follow-on is scheduled to kick in.
The goal of these programs has always been to develop a suite of new engine technologies, mature those technologies and then transition them into a program of record that will deliver an advanced engine to the field. However, Air Force officials are still hesitant to offer a time line for when that transition will happen. Following a March 26 hearing of the House Armed Services Committee's tactical air and land forces subcommittee, Air Force Acquisition Executive Bill Laplante told ITAF the program will almost certainly require more than $1.4 billion in development funds.
On timing, Laplante said, "I think it depends on how well the technology develops."
"With good luck, $1 billion and good fortune in how we run the program, by 2020, could allow us to proceed toward a full-scale prototype and begin thinking about a competition for the full-scale prototype, and maybe technology insertion later in the decade," LaPlante said. "The idea of where one would go, say, at the end of this next phase, that's not going to be until about 2017, 2018."
McCormick said he anticipates this next phase of work will involve a ground demonstration for these technologies focused on reducing risk to prepare the technologies for an engineering and manufacturing development (EMD) program. "This additional program following AETD would very comfortably set us up to have a very high confidence level both in the technology and in the cost of those key elements for an EMD program," he said.
He noted that the technology GE and other companies are maturing through ADVENT and AETD could have implications not just for the engines of the future, but that certain technologies could be retrofitted into existing engines. Technologies involving new materials -- such as new composites aimed at helping the engine withstand high temperatures or 3-D component printing processes -- could be ideal candidates for engine retrofits on the F-16's F110, for example.
The Air Force Research Lab and GE are actively looking at ways to apply material innovations to existing engines, McCormick said, but improvements focused on fuel efficiency are not ideal candidates for retrofit efforts. Because the steep efficiency gains are tied to the installation of a suite of new capabilities rather than any single, stand-alone technology, McCormick said any real energy usage improvements to today's engines would essentially require that they be rebuilt.
"If you piecemeal these into a legacy engine, typically you aren't going to get the magnitude of fuel savings benefit that you are with this entire suite of technologies," he said.
ADVENT, AETD work ongoing
As the service's plans for the next phase of advanced engine work begin to take shape, ADVENT and AETD continue to make progress. GE began testing the turbofan engine it built through ADVENT last November and expects to finish testing in June or July. The engine will undergo 80 to 100 hours of testing and, once complete, GE engineers will remove it from the test cell, tear it down and assess its components. Final reports to validate the testing data will be delivered at the end of 2014, marking the completion of ADVENT.
McCormick said GE has started to receive preliminary feedback on the engine's performance.
"I'll say from a very high-level first assessment of it, the engine appears to be doing well," he said. "But obviously, it's going to take several months to gather a reasonable set of data and give the engineering team time to analyze the information and really compare it to all the pre-test predictions that we have."
Where ADVENT was a "pure science and technology" program, AETD is an effort to prove that when all of these technologies come together, they can deliver the expected performance, McCormick said. The company is working now to complete the architecture of an engine prototype that will eventually fit into an actual aircraft. When GE, Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney joined the competition for the AETD program, the Air Force instructed them to build their proposal to fit an existing aircraft engine of their choice. All three companies chose the F-35, and the winning companies, GE and Pratt & Whitney, are both building to those specifications.
"I think that's probably a pretty natural progression in that it is kind of the latest generation airplane for which there is a firm definition of what it is," McCormick said of the decision to work off of the F-35.
That architecture work will continue through the end of 2014 to prepare AETD to move from its conceptual phase to a preliminary design review. The end of this conceptual phase involves establishing "air-flow definitions, bearings, design, discs, structures, those types of things," McCormick said. "Really all the detailed design work that then has to go into this preliminary design review that we'll hold with AFRL later this year."
AETD is set to wrap up in FY-16, at which time funding for the next phase of advanced engine work will come into play if the Air Force's plan is approved.
"You want to have the next program kind of up and running as you transition out of AETD so that you can transition the manpower from the preliminary design phase that we'll do in AETD and move that into the next phase of design that we call the critical design review," McCormick said. "We were very encouraged that in the FY-15, FY-16 time frame, this next opportunity may exist that would allow a natural flow or natural progression to the next program." -- Courtney Albon and Gabe Starosta
bring_it_on
I really should change my personal text
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Has anyone seen anything from Northrop Grumman regarding FA_XX or a future manned fighter? All I have seen are boeing and lockheed renderings..I hope NG competes independently, they designed a damn good fighter for the ATF..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQi-IaFO3kk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQi-IaFO3kk
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we have seen NG concepts for sure. right in this topic
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg37443.html#msg37443
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg77563.html#msg77563
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg110779.html#msg110779
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg134658.html#msg134658
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg141688.html#msg141688
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg160612.html#msg160612
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg37443.html#msg37443
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg77563.html#msg77563
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg110779.html#msg110779
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg134658.html#msg134658
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg141688.html#msg141688
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3536.msg160612.html#msg160612
bring_it_on
I really should change my personal text
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Thanks, Remember seeing some of these..NG has been relatively quiet compared to BA and LMA on their FA_XX literature and multimedia..
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bring_it_on said:
This is a picky note, admittedly. I've had hand surgery, so I'm mostly lurking for now since using my elbows for the keyboard isn't working out well. Frankly, given how bad I spell, you probably couldn't tell the difference anyway!
In any case, the glorious YF-23 was not a product of NG. Aside from the fact that NG didn't exist yet, it was a product of the Northrop -MDD teaming who had previously worked together on the F/A-18. Northrop and Grumman (still separate companies at that point) did team (probably by gov't fiat) for the ATA program, from which they later wisely ran away.
Interestingly, of the seven companies that responded to the ATF RFI, only three still exist today.
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Scroggins, old chap, could you run up a quick piccy of a fighter-like aeroplane with one of those new engines the boffins in Advanced are working on? I know it's secret but find something that looks right on Wikipedia and that should be close enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ADVENT-engine.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ADVENT-engine.JPG
bring_it_on
I really should change my personal text
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Since BS brought up advanced engines, the follow up to the AETD (ongoing, follow on to the ADVENT) program that would have taken Variable cycle engines to a notch higher maturity level may be cancelled or be under-funded according to latest reports..
BDF
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The F-X … Eventually
The Pentagon’s latest 30-year aircraft planshows Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps fighter/attack inventories dropping from 3,209 today to 2,937 by Fiscal 2020, and plateauing at about that level through fiscal year ’24. The plan is supposed to accompany the annual Pentagon budget request, but has only just been released. The Air Force’s fighter/attack inventory alone is now 1,959. During Fiscal 2015 to 2019, USAF plans to buy 238 F-35s and divest a like number of A-10s, while continuing to improve the F-22 and, as possible, upgrade the F-15, F-15E, and F-16 fleets. “Future research and development efforts beyond the (Future Years Defense Plan) will focus on improvements to fifth generation aircraft and initial RDT&E for an F-22 replacement,” states the report. The F-22 replacement, alternately called F-X and “Next Generation Air Dominance” aircraft, “will begin its development in the mid-to-late 2020s,” the report notes. It goes on to say that next-generation aircraft “may be provided by a family of systems using mixes of manned and unmanned aircraft with varying levels of stealth, advanced standoff weapons, sensors, and networks.” The report also states that USAF’s “inactive” aviation inventory—presumably those in storage at the Davis-Monthan AFB, Ariz., boneyard—includes 877 fighter/attack aircraft now, but that figure will crest over 1,050 aircraft in FY ’19, as it then declines to 655 by FY ’24.
http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2014/May%202014/May%2019%202014/The-F-X-…-Eventually.aspx
How utterly disappointing... I'm hoping that's prototype/fly off and the start of EMD.
The Pentagon’s latest 30-year aircraft planshows Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps fighter/attack inventories dropping from 3,209 today to 2,937 by Fiscal 2020, and plateauing at about that level through fiscal year ’24. The plan is supposed to accompany the annual Pentagon budget request, but has only just been released. The Air Force’s fighter/attack inventory alone is now 1,959. During Fiscal 2015 to 2019, USAF plans to buy 238 F-35s and divest a like number of A-10s, while continuing to improve the F-22 and, as possible, upgrade the F-15, F-15E, and F-16 fleets. “Future research and development efforts beyond the (Future Years Defense Plan) will focus on improvements to fifth generation aircraft and initial RDT&E for an F-22 replacement,” states the report. The F-22 replacement, alternately called F-X and “Next Generation Air Dominance” aircraft, “will begin its development in the mid-to-late 2020s,” the report notes. It goes on to say that next-generation aircraft “may be provided by a family of systems using mixes of manned and unmanned aircraft with varying levels of stealth, advanced standoff weapons, sensors, and networks.” The report also states that USAF’s “inactive” aviation inventory—presumably those in storage at the Davis-Monthan AFB, Ariz., boneyard—includes 877 fighter/attack aircraft now, but that figure will crest over 1,050 aircraft in FY ’19, as it then declines to 655 by FY ’24.
http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2014/May%202014/May%2019%202014/The-F-X-…-Eventually.aspx
How utterly disappointing... I'm hoping that's prototype/fly off and the start of EMD.
I
Ian33
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:'(
Mid 2020's? As said above, I really hope that isn't when they sit down and put pen to paper but the test phase after a fly off.
180 F-22s will be looking mighty lonely out there trying to protect all the F35s.
Mid 2020's? As said above, I really hope that isn't when they sit down and put pen to paper but the test phase after a fly off.
180 F-22s will be looking mighty lonely out there trying to protect all the F35s.
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Ian33 said:
It gets worse. Note:
next-generation aircraft “may be provided by a family of systems using mixes of manned and unmanned aircraft with varying levels of stealth, advanced standoff weapons, sensors, and networks.”
So they may (who are we kidding, "will") say something along the lines of, "if we combine the F-35s sensors and use UCAVs for forward-based missile magazines we can just let the F-22 go to the bone yard without a replacement". :'(
sferrin said:It gets worse. Note:
next-generation aircraft “may be provided by a family of systems using mixes of manned and unmanned aircraft with varying levels of stealth, advanced standoff weapons, sensors, and networks.”
So they may (who are we kidding, "will") say something along the lines of, "if we combine the F-35s sensors and use UCAVs for forward-based missile magazines we can just let the F-22 go to the bone yard without a replacement". :'(
“It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
― Yogi Berra
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