USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA, ASFS news

icyplanetnhc (Steve) said:
www.defenseone.com

Northrop will not bid on Air Force’s new fighter

The company's decision leaves Boeing, Lockheed Martin to compete to build the Next Generation Air Dominance jet.
www.defenseone.com www.defenseone.com

Well, I’m frankly not sure how I feel about Northrop Grumman forgo bidding as a prime for USAF NGAD. It remains to be seen how they are positioning themselves for the naval F/A-XX, since beating the current Navy fighter incumbents, Boeing and Lockheed Martin, would be challenging but certainly not impossible.
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While both services have stated they're open to shared systems on their aircraft, most credible analysis has pointed to the USAF and USN planes being quite different in specification. So I don't think there's much of a negative takeaway from them passing on a bid for the Air Force other than "well they may only have the resources to bid on one."

As for competing with LM and Boeing in a Navy program, the Grumman Iron Works pedigree should have them in fine shape. Even without that history, smart management will get you a long way. LockMart was unsuccessful with the Navy for a very long time yet haven't made any serious mess with F-35C.
 
Not a surprise. There is no way that the USG would pool the NGAD risk with the same prime contractor already working the Strategic Bomber and Minuteman replacement.

In some ways, this is a repeat of the ATF decision (award to Lockheed team) that was made when it looked like Northrop would build 132 B-2s.
 
raptor82 said:
……

Waaat？


https://twitter.com/x/status/1684557333949448192
View: https://twitter.com/dlt649/status/1684557333949448192?s=46&t=5THFve96Abhx7VANdlTzrg
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From this week's AvWeek:

A tiny crack has opened in the U.S. Navy’s closely guarded plans for a next-generation crewed fighter, with the White House confirming a relationship between the F/A-XX project and an apparent special access program code-named Link Plumeria.

The disclosure adds new depth to the Defense Department’s ongoing investment of more than $40 billion to develop a new family of Next-Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) technology for the Air Force and Navy, with the latter facing calls by some lawmakers for a potentially devastating budget cut in fiscal 2024.

But the funding for the F/A-XX program had been hiding all along under the Link Plumeria special access program (SAP) code name, which—although classified—ranked as the Pentagon’s fourth-largest research and development program.

The fiscal 2023-27 $11.5 billion budget for Link Plumeria in the fiscal 2023 request fell behind only the spending levels for the Air Force’s Ground-Based Strategic Deterrent, NGAD and Next-Generation Overhead Persistent Infrared programs. In fact, the requested budget for Link Plumeria exceeded the proposed $10 billion outlay in research and development for the Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider during the same period.
 
When it was reported earlier the primes/bidders for NGAD-AF were down to two, I already suspected NG was the one being out (as a prime).

The news as brought by Breaking Defense;
breakingdefense.com

Northrop not competing for NGAD sixth-gen fighter: CEO - Breaking Defense

Northrop CEO Kathy Warden did not rule out working on the Air Force's NGAD as a secondary partner, and indicated the company is still interested in the Navy's next-gen fighter.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
So the USAF NGAD program is down to two companies Boeing and Lockheed, looks like it is going to be the Joint Strike Fighter competition all over again.
 
FighterJock said:
So the USAF NGAD program is down to two companies Boeing and Lockheed, looks like it is going to be the Joint Strike Fighter competition all over again.
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Not sure how it could be any other way. NG was dropped from JSF for having a lift jet (among other things) and if they're going to be the prime on F/A-XX would they even have the bandwidth to prime NGAD as well? It's not like the F-22 / F-35 situation where there was roughly a decade between the programs. F/A-XX and NGAD will largely be in parallel.
 
My thoughts were it was between LM and NG and Boeing would end up with the F/A-XX due to their experience with Naval aviation. But with the B-21, I know the pentagon likes to spread the work around. Also, IIRC, NG shut down their TX program because they needed to concentrate on the B-21 and that was a much simpler program than the NGAD. So, it makes sense. Although, side note, fly the damned B-21 already! I'm tired of waiting. ;)
 
I think that it was the B-21 program that made the USAF drop NG from NGAD which would make sense as they do not want to put all their programs into one company. I do wish that NG would get the B-21 up and flying as well Sundog, what is taking them so long?
 
Sundog said:
My thoughts were it was between LM and NG and Boeing would end up with the F/A-XX due to their experience with Naval aviation. But with the B-21, I know the pentagon likes to spread the work around. Also, IIRC, NG shut down their TX program because they needed to concentrate on the B-21 and that was a much simpler program than the NGAD. So, it makes sense. Although, side note, fly the damned B-21 already! I'm tired of waiting. ;)
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Experience of the last half a century(both US and Soviet) says that there is almost nothing harder to get than advanced bomber concepts.
Even the most advanced fighters have far less troublesome development/deployment records.
 
raptor82 said:
……

Waaat？


https://twitter.com/x/status/1684557333949448192
View: https://twitter.com/dlt649/status/1684557333949448192?s=46&t=5THFve96Abhx7VANdlTzrg
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Begs the question could whatever was depicted in their company video, if they are officially NOT partaking in NGAD so whats left?

www.popularmechanics.com

This New Video Looks to Be Giving a Sneak Peek at the Air Force's Secret New Fighter Jet

In Northrop Grumman's hangar of jets, there's one we haven't seen before. Take a look and decide for yourself.
www.popularmechanics.com www.popularmechanics.com

could it be for the NAvy F/A-XX then? Looking at the front undercarriage it looks like beefed up see on on carrier borne fast jets akin to Tomcat, Intruder, Corsair, Hornet, Super Hornet F-35C

cheers
 
In regards to NG having both the B-21 and the USAF NGAD would be a stretch I think however, the door is still open for the USN F/A-XX since it is futher out especially if Boeing does not get their act together as a company. NG may also be working some other advanced strike or ISR programs as well definitely leveraging their flying wing prowess and possibly some derivative YF-23/FB-23 configurations for medium theater strike. NG is in a unique position for various platform and mission types, you never know. NG could be doing advanced strike/attack platforms for the USN. Remember, the current mix on a USN flattop is F/A-18 E/F, F-35C, E-2 and C-2 for COD related to fixed wing platforms, that's it! Nothing close to the mix for every mission type when I was aboard CVN-65 in the early 80's.
 
sferrin said:
I would have thought NG would have had a better shot due it its experience with naval aviation. ;)
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Institutional knowledge has a short half life (2 careers), and I think its about that length of time for Grumman
 
zevets said:
Institutional knowledge has a short half life (2 careers), and I think its about that length of time for Grumman
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They have been producing E-2s, so it’s not as if they’re completely out of practice when it comes to carrier aircraft, but yeah. I don’t think we should be optimistic for the old Grumman Ironworks sensibilities to shine through once more.
 
zevets said:
Institutional knowledge has a short half life (2 careers), and I think its about that length of time for Grumman
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E-2D, X-47B. And Boeing? The Super Hornet? That was McDD. MQ-25? Has that ever been on a catapult or caught a wire?
 
Three contractors, two fighter programmes. Someone is going to lose out but I suspect it will sort itself out; with NGAD, F/A-XX, B-21, T-7, KC-Z, E-7 as the main current programmes there is plenty for everyone to be getting on with and likely as not we'll be hearing about F-35, C-130/C-17 and E-2 replacement programmes by the turn of the decade and that's not counting all the likely unmanned stuff.
 
Whenever anyone mentions Boeing engineers I always think of Emunclaw these days. I've heard of engineers screwing the pooch figuratively but....
 
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Hydroman said:
In regards to NG having both the B-21 and the USAF NGAD would be a stretch I think however, the door is still open for the USN F/A-XX since it is futher out especially if Boeing does not get their act together as a company. NG may also be working some other advanced strike or ISR programs as well definitely leveraging their flying wing prowess and possibly some derivative YF-23/FB-23 configurations for medium theater strike. NG is in a unique position for various platform and mission types, you never know. NG could be doing advanced strike/attack platforms for the USN. Remember, the current mix on a USN flattop is F/A-18 E/F, F-35C, E-2 and C-2 for COD related to fixed wing platforms, that's it! Nothing close to the mix for every mission type when I was aboard CVN-65 in the early 80's.
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C-2 is done in '24 - CMV-22B only from that point on: https://seapowermagazine.org/navy-air-warfare-director-c-2-aircraft-retirement-moved-up-to-2024/

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
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bobbymike said:
breakingdefense.com

For NGAD's new capabilities, Air Force turns to 'about... a dozen' non-traditional vendors: General - Breaking Defense

“We have a firm grasp on what the requirements are,” said Air Force Brig. Gen. Dale White, program executive officer for fighters and advanced aircraft, concerning the service’s plans to field drones that can join jets in combat.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
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“We have proven a path that allows us to do that and we’ve had some pretty tremendous success up to this point bringing [on]… some non-traditionals,”

“Right now we feel very comfortable with where we’re at and the partnership we have with Congress on this particular program is, I mean, it’s phenomenal,” said White.


Is the hyperbolic language at this point in the program normal? If it is in fact exceptional, that is good to hear and a welcome change from the debacles that seem to plague nearly every notable DOD acquisition.
 
skyblue said:
“We have proven a path that allows us to do that and we’ve had some pretty tremendous success up to this point bringing [on]… some non-traditionals,”

“Right now we feel very comfortable with where we’re at and the partnership we have with Congress on this particular program is, I mean, it’s phenomenal,” said White.


Is the hyperbolic language at this point in the program normal? If it is in fact exceptional, that is good to hear and a welcome change from the debacles that seem to plague nearly every notable DOD acquisition.
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Who is their intended audience? If China is supplying any material needed for the NGAD program, no one should be comfortable.
 
aonestudio said:
www.thedrive.com

How NGAD Will Sense, Communicate, And Jam Could Be Revolutionary

NGAD's potential use of multi-function arrays that combine radar, communications, and electronic warfare functions could be a game changer.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
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New gallium nitride AESA radar sets like RTX's (Raytheon) Phantom Strike were designed to be cheap, light, easily integrated, while giving superior performance to larger systems currently in use. This concept rendering shows one installed aboard a stealthy Kratos XQ-58 Valkyrie drone.
skeptical, expendable vs attritable for instance is going take so much time to ferret out truths the whole program will remain threatened IMHO.
 

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