US Supersonic Transport (SST) Program 1960-1971

[hesham]

Douglas Model 2229 SST flight deck model.

Very nice displaying my dear Circle-5.

 

[MaxLegroom]

That's absolutely beautiful...

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is some Boeing SST aircraft Models in colors.


http://www.boeingimages.com/C.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&VBID=2JRSN2PCL7XT&PN=31#/SearchResult&VBID=2JRSN2PCL7XT&PN=31

 

[flateric]

...

 

[hesham]

Thanks you my dear Flateric.

 

[MaxLegroom]

I recently attempted some research on the NAC-60 at the NASM Udvar-Hazy Center. While I, again, failed to find the sort of drawings I'll need to really bring this to life, such as those necessary to put gauges and switches on panels, I did find a copy of the proposal and route analysis offered to United Airlines. It has made for interesting reading, as at the time, it was thought that supersonic flights were going to be made over land, resulting in information on routes like New York to Los Angeles (with IATA code IDL referring to Idlewild), Cleveland to Los Angeles, and Chicago to Portland.

Seat mile costs just under 1.5 cents per passenger seat mile, based on a 60% load factor were promised on some routes, as were one hour engine changes, but the one thing that had me looking for a place to lie down was the idea that the entire vertical moves. There is no rudder, just a moving vertical stabilizer.

I thought I'd at least offer the cutaway and its guide for now...

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the full-scale model for Boeing SST.

 

[MaxLegroom]

Nice find. When was that picture taken?

 

[hesham]

Hi Max,


I got it from the book; Aviation and Space Museums of America,and the date was 1972.

 

[MaxLegroom]

My trip to the National Archives was an abject failure, in that I failed to find the information I was really looking for. That is not to say that I did not find anything interesting. I'm planning a return trip very shortly for another attempt, but in the meantime, I found the mother lode of Phase III information, with the completed Lockheed and Boeing proposals. Reading just a bit of the information was interesting. One thing that grabbed my eye involved the possibility of an explosive decompression incident. What I read went largely, though I'm sure not exactly, like this: the equivalent of one window blowing out would result in an emergency descent, with the air pressurization systems working in a overload (?) fashion to keep the cabin pressurized, if not cool, temperatures in the cabin in this instance could be expected to reach 95 degrees F. I"m sure everyone else had similar plans, as in such a case, lives are immediately at stake in a way that they aren't in a conventional jetliner. The procedures were expected to be executed within 18 seconds of detection of a problem.

In any case, I photocopied some items, but I"ll be scanning them again later, for better resolution.

Each volume of the Lockheed proposal started with two images, one of the mockup that is very familiar to us, and this color image of the economy cabin:

 

[blackkite]

Wow!! Thanks for sharing us such a rare information.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


http://starnesland.blogspot.com/2011_12_01_archive.html

 

[sienar]

Very cool video about the sst program circa 1965. Part of the science reporter series from MIT so its aimed at the general public. But still it contains a few interesting bits of info and some very cool pieces of video footage.


Highlight for me is the section about the flight simulator for the SST starting a tad before the 25min mark.


The video also mentions studies being done on a hypersonic scramjet passenger aircraft. The attached image is of this design which is completely unknown to me.


You can find the video here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9BjJaDlOaQ

 

[circle-5]

Douglas Model 2229 SST underside. Douglas cooperation with NAA is evident on this view, with canards, fold-down wing tips for compression lift and grouped engines in ventral 4-pack.


The inlet ducts have a variable geometry intake, which is accomplished by closing together the outer wedges of the "W" shape. This was not possible on the XB-70 because of the front undercarriage location. This 1/10-scale factory model was shown to airline customers interested in offering Mach 3+ commercial routes. It is now displayed at the Santa Monica Museum of Flying, across the field from where it was made, about half a century ago.

 

[Orionblamblam]

This 1/10-scale factory model was shown to airline customers interested in offering Mach 3+ commercial routes. It is now displayed at the Santa Monica Museum of Flying

OK, now someone needs to climb up to it with a camera and a tape measure.

 

[MaxLegroom]

Here is Kennedy's speech that announced the beginning of the program...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMHu7uwfbt4

 

[Archibald]

Japanese interest in the Boeing SST
When Congress zeroed SST budget on March 25, 1971, a last minute proposal was made by a Japanese trading corporation (a sogo sosha) with the name of Ataka.
Ataka wanted to buy the SST assets to try and produce the 2707-300 in Japan.
https://www.google.fr/webhp?ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=DvNFVZGXLoK1UYSBgegN#q=%22boeing%22%22SST%22%22ataka%22

The proposal was not entirely serious (although Flight International of that era mention Ataka as active in the front of aeronautics). It was soon dismissed by the U.S and Japanese governments.

 

[MaxLegroom]

Interesting story, wonder what the deep background on that looked like...

 

[Triton]

Boeing High Speed Civil Transport Program Review found on eBay.

Source:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FACTORY-BROCHURE-BOEING-SST-2707-HSCT-incl-SEATING-CHART-32-PAGES-1972/201382726673?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D29979%26meid%3Deba8e78155774e04b163cd3778e3161d%26pid%3D100034%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D321674300044

 

[Triton]

Additional pages.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I've had my eye on that one. Hoping it doesn't get too expensive...

 

[Triton]

Wow! Winning bid was $76.00 US.

 

[galgot]

Hi,
I'm working on a Boeing 2707-200 3d model, using mainly some scale plans I got from aerospaceprojectsreview.com and this very thread. it's been very helpful. Here Screenshots :

Still a lot of work , but before i go into texturing, does anybody know a scale plan showing the panel lines and other details ?
All the drawings I found are or very basic or cut out..
Also, I've been using this cutaway drawing showing quite a lot of details:
http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/boeing-2707-200-cutaway.jpg
but have a question about the part shown below :

Are these air brakes ?


I understand I'm not contributing to the thread, so if this post is misplaced , please move it somewhere else.


Thanks

 

[MaxLegroom]

That's some nice looking 3D work there...

 

[galgot]

Thanks.
Finished the front LG yesterday :
http://galgot.free.fr//transit/FG2707.jpg


So… Could you confirm these things in my previous post are air Brakes ? or some engine service panels ?
I'll like to be able to do some renders in landing configuration, and maybe these would be open if they are indeed air brakes.

 

[galgot]

Well…
There is a beautiful 2707-200 model on ebay now :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-2707-200-SST-SUPERSONIC-TRANSPORT-PROTOTYPE-MODEL-BOEING-AIRPLANE-/181847831821?hash=item2a56f9b50d
Genuine from Boeing, damaged though..

 

[MaxLegroom]

Those were probably access panels, especially as they were over the engines. There were plenty of speed brakes on the pivoting portions of the wing, and additional ones, it would seem, on the main portion of the wing near the center. The panels you've highlighted would probably be very dangerous to deploy as moving surfaces in flight, especially at the angles shown, and would result in a unusual amount of upward pitch.

 

[Sundog]

Thanks.
Finished the front LG yesterday :
http://galgot.free.fr//transit/FG2707.jpg


So… Could you confirm these things in my previous post are air Brakes ? or some engine service panels ?
I'll like to be able to do some renders in landing configuration, and maybe these would be open if they are indeed air brakes.

Based on the drawing, which seems to show all of the flight control surfaces, I am inclined to believe those are airbrakes.

 

[galgot]

Thanks, I think I finally found out.
Yesterday I downloaded the Boeing SST patent 3447761 :
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3794.msg29793#msg29793
Something I didn't had before. Even though it describes the 2707-100 it includes a precise description of all control surfaces.
Apparently these are "auxiliary elevators" (!). Moving upward only, the engines being just under it, which is consistent with your observation of these giving upward pitch MaxLegroom.
Thinking now also that it would be a bad idea to put air brakes just in front of the GE4 engines reverse exhaust , as both would be used approximately at the same time, the reverses would tear of the air brakes…
On the patent it shows these kind "auxiliary elevators" over each engines, but on the 2707-200 it seems they discarded the ones over the outboard engines.
Worked on the wing root flaps, will post some other screenshots in the users artwork section later


cheers

 

[Sundog]

Thanks, I think I finally found out.
Yesterday I downloaded the Boeing SST patent 3447761 :
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3794.msg29793#msg29793
Something I didn't had before. Even though it describes the 2707-100 it includes a precise description of all control surfaces.
Apparently these are "auxiliary elevators" (!). Moving upward only, the engines being just under it, which is consistent with your observation of these giving upward pitch MaxLegroom.
Thinking now also that it would be a bad idea to put air brakes just in front of the GE4 engines reverse exhaust , as both would be used approximately at the same time, the reverses would tear of the air brakes…
On the patent it shows these kind "auxiliary elevators" over each engines, but on the 2707-200 it seems they discarded the ones over the outboard engines.
Worked on the wing root flaps, will post some other screenshots in the users artwork section later


cheers

I doubt if they had been airbrakes, they would have had any problems with the thrust reversers. The Tornado doesn't have any problem with it's airbrakes in front of the thrust reversers. Most thrust reversers don't angle the thrust too far forward.

 

[hesham]

15 b/w pictures of US Supersonic Transport (SST) projects at Klassiker der Luftfahrt.
North American Aviation NAC-60, Boeing 2707 and Lockheed L-2000 B)

Link: Klassiker der Luftfahrt: Supersonic - US-Überschallprojekte der 60er

What was this,or from which company ?.

 

[Steve Pace]

15 b/w pictures of US Supersonic Transport (SST) projects at Klassiker der Luftfahrt.
North American Aviation NAC-60, Boeing 2707 and Lockheed L-2000 B)

Link: Klassiker der Luftfahrt: Supersonic - US-Überschallprojekte der 60er

What was this,or from which company ?.

Looks Convairish. -SP

 

[martinbayer]

15 b/w pictures of US Supersonic Transport (SST) projects at Klassiker der Luftfahrt.
North American Aviation NAC-60, Boeing 2707 and Lockheed L-2000 B)

Link: Klassiker der Luftfahrt: Supersonic - US-Überschallprojekte der 60er

What was this,or from which company ?.

Looks Convairish. -SP

According to the picture caption at the linked site, it's from Lockheed.

Martin

 

[hesham]

Thank you Martin.

 

[hesham]

15 b/w pictures of US Supersonic Transport (SST) projects at Klassiker der Luftfahrt.
North American Aviation NAC-60, Boeing 2707 and Lockheed L-2000 B)

Link: Klassiker der Luftfahrt: Supersonic - US-Überschallprojekte der 60er

What was this,or from which company ?.

Yes Lockheed as Martin said.


https://archive.org/stream/missilesrockets1119unse#page/n293/mode/2up

 

[hesham]

Also;


https://archive.org/stream/missilesrockets1819unse_0#page/n169/mode/2up

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Lockheed SST concept of 1959.

Missiles and Rockets : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7QR03OAwlA

 

[MaxLegroom]

That's an interesting video. I've subscribed to the You Tuber who posted that for about two years now. There were a couple of interesting lapses, or perhaps foreshadowing as well, in that video. When attempting to describe the interior, they showed scenes of the 747 interior. The 747, in a way, killed off the Concorde, but not in the way that we would now think likely. It was more due to the matter of airlines having trouble making money with the 747, so there was none to buy Concordes with.

 

[RAP]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lockheed-L-2000-SST-16-x20-Print-/111802620974?hash=item1a07f49c2e:g:1t0AAOSwAYtWJ5Au