US officials object to European push to buy weapons locally

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Dilandu said:
You realize that even US have an exception of free speech protection? It's not a qualitive difference, merely quantative.
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Under US law, the only restriction on the freedom of speech is advocacy of violence and the like. Person A can shout "I hate Person B" all they want. "I want Person B to die" all day long. "Person B's politics/appearance/ideology/race/religion are ugly and stupid" as much as they like. This is as it should be.

Dilandu said:
I agree, that abortion right reasonably should be restricted by medical consideration. After all, there is a lot of perfectly reliable ways of contraception around. On the other hand, USA aren't exactly the shining beacon of light in that matters also, since there seems to be no reasonable middle ground, but two crouds, one of which shouthing "ABORTION IS RIGHT!!!" the other shouting "ABORTION IS MURDER!!!" and both interested only in shouting louder.
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Well, sure. Moderation is usually the most reasonable approach, but people aren't usually reasonable.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Under US law, the only restriction on the freedom of speech is advocacy of violence and the like. Person A can shout "I hate Person B" all they want. "I want Person B to die" all day long. "Person B's politics/appearance/ideology/race/religion are ugly and stupid" as much as they like. This is as it should be.


Well, sure. Moderation is usually the most reasonable approach, but people aren't usually reasonable.
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Your reply lacks support. I think most people are reasonable. Too many mistakes and the problems pile up.
 
We are hugely off topic now chaps.

However, my view is that freedom of speech should not allow persecution of a person due to their beliefs & opinions or desire to espouse those beliefs &opinions (in medieval and renaissance Europe many countries had lese majesty laws, hence lots of people crossed the Pond to escape them). With the exception that everyone should have freedom from aggression or hate speech. Imagine a person stood outside your house all day calling you a c*&t and you're not allowed to go out and punch them in the face until they can't talk anymore.....

Similarly, (as a man) I believe only women should be the ones to vote on abortion laws, since it's they that will do ALL of the hard work, and they whose lives are potentially at risk. We (men) don't really get any say in my opinion.

Back to the OT, I generally find upsetting and insulting your customers isn't conducive to good sales results.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Sure. "Abortion at all times for any reason?" Wrong. "No abortions ever?" Wrong.

"Abort the furries?" Right, each and every time. See? Middle ground, everybody agrees and goes home happy.
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No, no, no. It's Ban the Furries.
 
scautomoton said:
We are hugely off topic now chaps.

However, my view is that freedom of speech should not allow persecution of a person due to their beliefs & opinions or desire to espouse those beliefs &opinions (in medieval and renaissance Europe many countries had lese majesty laws, hence lots of people crossed the Pond to escape them). With the exception that everyone should have freedom from aggression or hate speech. Imagine a person stood outside your house all day calling you a c*&t and you're not allowed to go out and punch them in the face until they can't talk anymore.....

Similarly, (as a man) I believe only women should be the ones to vote on abortion laws, since it's they that will do ALL of the hard work, and they whose lives are potentially at risk. We (men) don't really get any say in my opinion.

Back to the OT, I generally find upsetting and insulting your customers isn't conducive to good sales results.
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Where was the man when the woman got pregnant? In another room? This sick, twisted idea that the man is automatically off the hook is sick and twisted.
 
Orionblamblam said:
"Abort the furries?" Right, each and every time. See? Middle ground, everybody agrees and goes home happy.
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You really have an unorthodox complex here) Wonder what caused it... on the other hand, it's not my business.

P.S. Oh, by the way, neko is not furry. At least use right terminology.
 
edwest4 said:
Where was the man when the woman got pregnant? In another room? This sick, twisted idea that the man is automatically off the hook is sick and twisted.
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I don't see any man struggling to carry a pregnancy to term, or having foot long needles inserted into his abdomen to check the state of the foetus, or at risk of blood clots, or any number of other things my own Wife had to deal with. But there is nothing sick and twisted, in my opinion, of letting the Ones doing the deed make the decision as to what they can do with their own bodies.

What is sick and twisted is a male majority government (in any country) imposing its will on 50% of the population's bodily functions. That smacks of servitude in my mind.

The simple solution is to carry out a national referendum and put the topic to bed (no pun intended) once and for all.
 
scautomoton said:
I don't see any man struggling to carry a pregnancy to term, or having foot long needles inserted into his abdomen to check the state of the foetus, or at risk of blood clots, or any number of other things my own Wife had to deal with. But there is nothing sick and twisted, in my opinion, of letting the Ones doing the deed make the decision as to what they can do with their own bodies.

What is sick and twisted is a male majority government (in any country) imposing its will on 50% of the population's bodily functions. That smacks of servitude in my mind.

The simple solution is to carry out a national referendum and put the topic to bed (no pun intended) once and for all.
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The U.S. has made its position known. It is now up to the States. Any reasonable person knows that two people are required. This sick and twisted idea that some kind of servitude is involved is sick and twisted.
 
scautomoton said:
With the exception that everyone should have freedom from aggression or hate speech. Imagine a person stood outside your house all day calling you a c*&t and you're not allowed to go out and punch them in the face until they can't talk anymore.....
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As it should be. Someone yelling *anything* outside your house merits a call to the cops for disturbing the police. What they're yelling is irrelevant. Punching them for calling you names merits jail time for *you.*

scautomoton said:
Similarly, (as a man) I believe only women should be the ones to vote on abortion laws, since it's they that will do ALL of the hard work, and they whose lives are potentially at risk. We (men) don't really get any say in my opinion.
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So you support getting rid of child support payments for men who didn't want the babies? With no power comes no responsibility.

Which actually sorta gets us kinda back to the topic. If the US has no say in things, it has no responsibility for those things.
scautomoton said:
Back to the OT, I generally find upsetting and insulting your customers isn't conducive to good sales results.
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A lesson that Disney is learning to its cost.
 
Orionblamblam said:
So you support getting rid of child support payments for men who didn't want the babies? With no power comes no responsibility.
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No, if you read my comment, you'll note that I said "the ones to vote on abortion laws". Child support is an entirely different topic.
 
You know folks, these sorts of things happen now and again. Who knows what the global political landscape will look like in 3.5 years.

Me, I come here to talk and learn about flying things and such.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Agreed. But sometimes the law is an ass. This is a *thought* *control* law, and would be *massively* unconstitutional in the US. The UK can have whatever totalitarian laws it wants... and Americans can point at them and say "that sucks."
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*Ahem* Oklahama want to punish protesters that disrupt religious services.... This would include people that stand outside of abortion clinics....
Those people standing and praying in silence is calling stalking. That is what the law is against, not oppression of their believes...
I don't know if you noticed it Scott, but the religious right is taking over your country.... So be careful out there....
 
Okay, okay, I don't know why you're pulling abortion rights in. But obviously, you can't convince each other, there's no point in arguing like this, sit down and calm down, let's get back to the topic.
 
scautomoton said:
The simple solution is to carry out a national referendum and put the topic to bed (no pun intended) once and for all.
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Come on, such referendum would deny generations to come of American politicians the ability to make career by exploiting abortion question.
 
Orionblamblam said:
As it should be. Someone yelling *anything* outside your house merits a call to the cops for disturbing the police. What they're yelling is irrelevant. Punching them for calling you names merits jail time for *you.*



So you support getting rid of child support payments for men who didn't want the babies? With no power comes no responsibility.

Which actually sorta gets us kinda back to the topic. If the US has no say in things, it has no responsibility for those things.


A lesson that Disney is learning to its cost.
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President Trump is rearranging the world order. He is giving the rest of the world a very needed kick in the pants. Since the 1970s, the U.S. has been subsidizing the rest of the world. Which was fine during the Cold War. The Cold War is over.
 
scautomoton said:
Someone who's pregnant can't run away from the pregnancy
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Someone who's NOT pregnant can also not run away from it, nor from 18 years worth of financial servitude afterwards. In any event, that's beside the point: if People Of Type A are murdering People Of Type B, People Of Type C can object.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Under US law, the only restriction on the freedom of speech is advocacy of violence and the like. Person A can shout "I hate Person B" all they want. "I want Person B to die" all day long. "Person B's politics/appearance/ideology/race/religion are ugly and stupid" as much as they like. This is as it should be.
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That is no longer the case, I have been provided a long list of words that I am now banned from using. And I am merely a federal contractor... Federal workers have an even longer list of words that have been banned...
 
edwest4 said:
President Trump is rearranging the world order. He is giving the rest of the world a very needed kick in the pants.
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Indeed. Note the freakout ongoing over Trump yapping about taking over Greenland and Canada. Everybody knows this is not going to happen. Everybody knows this is simply the way Trump negotiates. But it has ALREADY WORKED: Europe, which rolled over and exposed it's soft underbelly for a generation of violent invaders, suddenly decided to grow a pair. If Trump pretending to be the bad guy is what it takes for the home of Western Civilization to *finally* decide to defend itself, then, hey, great. If losing some military contracts now ensures that Europe remains a market for American products for the next century, rather than falling to invasion and a new dark age, then a small loss now is worth the fabulous riches to come.
 
Desertfox said:
That is no longer the case, I have been provided a long list of words that I am now banned from using. And I am merely a federal contractor... Federal workers have an even longer list of words that have been banned...
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Banned from using in your private life, or banned from using in your job? The 1st Amendment does not cover your employer.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Indeed. Note the freakout ongoing over Trump yapping about taking over Greenland and Canada. Everybody knows this is not going to happen. Everybody knows this is simply the way Trump negotiates. But it has ALREADY WORKED: Europe, which rolled over and exposed it's soft underbelly for a generation of violent invaders, suddenly decided to grow a pair. If Trump pretending to be the bad guy is what it takes for the home of Western Civilization to *finally* decide to defend itself, then, hey, great. If losing some military contracts now ensures that Europe remains a market for American products for the next century, rather than falling to invasion and a new dark age, then a small loss now is worth the fabulous riches to come.
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People always react consistently. Years of giving Europe carrots has been replaced with a stick. I think Donald Trump the man is partly uncivilized. President Trump is doing an excellent job. What did Europe, including the UK, do at the end of the Cold War? Anybody? They found ways to increase tourism and sell more goods. Not that they did not deserve a break from the constant threat of the Soviets moving west and blowing up London. So, allow me to repeat: EUROPE is upset because the United States is looking to address decades-long trade imbalances which have cost trillions of dollars. And, of course, no one in Europe was going to complain when the money was rolling in. A note about Britain. Someone in the House of Commons made a comment that "tariffs make us all poorer." Baloney. Pure balderdash. He should have thanked the United States for decades of cost-free economic support.

And yes, the Religious Left has been deposed. Their only weapon of choice is spreading false and misleading information. Anything, absolutely anything to regain control. Anything...
 
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Orionblamblam said:
If losing some military contracts now ensures that Europe remains a market for American products for the next century, rather than falling to invasion and a new dark age, then a small loss now is worth the fabulous riches to come.
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The problem is that once bitten twice shy. Trump is ruining America's reputation by upsetting literally everyone. So why would anyone want to carry on doing business now or in the future? All of his antics are playing into Xi's hands. I don't think those riches you mention will be as fabulous as you make out. Well, except for all of Trump's business partners who are clearly in on the game plan.

I agree that Europe needed a kick up the backside. But there are much better ways of doing so that don't make the ROW's opinion of the USA backslide even further. In fact you could argue that the current game plan is going to create a more integrated Europe, with a stronger place in the world which the USA will have less sway over. So instead of a partner, a new competitor or even adversary is being unwittingly created.
 
To be honest, the factional division within the United States is indeed ... There are some serious. I thought it would be a bit serious, but I didn't expect it to be this level.Well, that's really off topic...
 
scautomoton said:
The problem is that once bitten twice shy. Trump is ruining America's reputation by upsetting literally everyone. So why would anyone want to carry on doing business now or in the future? All of his antics are playing into Xi's hands. I don't think those riches you mention will be as fabulous as you make out. Well, except for all of Trump's business partners who are clearly in on the game plan.

I agree that Europe needed a kick up the backside. But there are much better ways of doing so that don't make the ROW's opinion of the USA backslide even further. In fact you could argue that the current game plan is going to create a more integrated Europe, with a stronger place in the world which the USA will have less sway over. So instead of a partner, a new competitor or even adversary is being unwittingly created.
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The answer is always the same: You can stop dealing with the United States altogether. Or, as President Trump stated, now is the time to negotiate.

Any other approach would have led to endless speeches. As someone in the French government said, It is time to stop making speeches and start making decisions.

European leaders know that America will come to their aid in a crisis, but now is the time to get their houses in order. Now.

And I am sick and tired of this crap and whining about China. OH. Everybody is going to call Xi. Everybody is going to beg for his help. Stop that crap.
 
scautomoton said:
The problem is that once bitten twice shy. Trump is ruining America's reputation by upsetting literally everyone.
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I'm not upset. Lots of people in Britain and elsewhere are not upset... they're more upset with their own backstabbing anarcho-tyrannical governments.

scautomoton said:
So why would anyone want to carry on doing business now or in the future?
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Profit. the main reason why anyone does business.

If Europe falls to the Caliphate, nobody will profit from that. Not the US, not the Europeans either fleeing or living under the thumb.
 
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