US Next Generation Bomber Studies

[bobbymike]

They're going to roll out a Mach 7 to 10 hypersonic reconnaissance strike platform and freak the Chinese and Russians out.

 

[blackkite]

Oh we get two opinions!!
flateric thanks a lot. What is SW?

 

[Black Dog]

Candidates are these three?

 

[blackkite]

Hmmm......
Canard increase RCS?
We already know that Canard is sensitive, hard to control.

 

[LowObservable]

It does until you push the switch labeled CANARD RETRACT/DEPLOY.

 

[Ian33]

It does until you push the switch labeled CANARD RETRACT/DEPLOY.

It seems a very messy set up with redundant weight being carried, plus the seal with the skin, and then the space needed... Very ungainly mess imho.

Although I can see a missile bay door type set up canards that lay flat flush.... But still, surely in this day and age there are other ways to balance a ship out?

 

[Airplane]

Most likely the intended vehicle is a drone, indicative of a USN application. Just because it shows a windscreen in a scale that indicates a large aircraft, that means nothing.

As for the thinking that they are going to just reproduce a modern variant of the B-2 is just silly. NG did not take it's lessons learned from the B2, and ignore them in order to roll out a B-2 clone; they also did not throw out the advances made in materials and construction technology. Likewise, they also did not incorporate the advances in materials and construction tech just to build 1:1 clone of the B-2. The B-2 ain't the perfect bomber.

 

[flateric]

Hmmm......
Canard increase RCS?
We already know that Canard is sensitive, hard to control.

If you will read a patent, you will notice, that canard for this family of aircraft (including transport, tanker and bomber) was only intended for transport version.

 

[flateric]

Oh we get two opinions!!
flateric thanks a lot. What is SW?

Skunk Works

 

[Ian33]

As for the thinking that they are going to just reproduce a modern variant of the B-2 is just silly. NG did not take it's lessons learned from the B2, and ignore them in order to roll out a B-2 clone; they also did not throw out the advances made in materials and construction technology. Likewise, they also did not incorporate the advances in materials and construction tech just to build 1:1 clone of the B-2. The B-2 ain't the perfect bomber.

The original shape was far from silly. If that was the case, Lockheed wouldn't be betting on it would they? Single saw tooth, inlets that can open / close as the threat dictates, modern systems, modern engines....

Nope, original B2 shape with today's tech and Northrops use of only upper side flaps per their parents, with a slab of thrust vectoring to aid take off.
I really do not see Northrop Grumman using the cranked kite.

 

[flateric]

Most likely the intended vehicle is a drone, indicative of a USN application. Just because it shows a windscreen in a scale that indicates a large aircraft, that means nothing.

As for the thinking that they are going to just reproduce a modern variant of the B-2 is just silly. NG did not take it's lessons learned from the B2, and ignore them in order to roll out a B-2 clone; they also did not throw out the advances made in materials and construction technology. Likewise, they also did not incorporate the advances in materials and construction tech just to build 1:1 clone of the B-2. The B-2 ain't the perfect bomber.

Most likely you haven't read the patent at all...

 

[sferrin]

It does until you push the switch labeled CANARD RETRACT/DEPLOY.

The entry level model, for $550 million, just has a blank spot on the dash where that button goes.

 

[Sundog]

Wait to get the canards I have to get the 21-inch rims too? Is this from Northrop or BMW?

It also comes with a T-Top, but it can only be used once.

 

[sferrin]

Wait to get the canards I have to get the 21-inch rims too? Is this from Northrop or BMW?

It also comes with a T-Top, but it can only be used once.

It comes with a sun roof you heathen. This isn't a Camero F-111.

 

[Steve Pace]

Wait to get the canards I have to get the 21-inch rims too? Is this from Northrop or BMW?

It also comes with a T-Top, but it can only be used once.

It comes with a sun roof you heathen. This isn't a Camero F-111.

It'll have a 10-passenger cabin with windows so that U.S. taxpayers can see it in action - to see if they're getting their money's worth. -SP

 

[marauder2048]

Most likely the intended vehicle is a drone, indicative of a USN application.

Most likely you haven't read the patent at all...

The patent includes an active control flow system to modulate bleed (or aux pump) air over the canards and other control surfaces. In other words, blown canards and blown flaps. Blown surfaces are a huge show stopper for the Navy.

 

[Steve Pace]

Most likely the intended vehicle is a drone, indicative of a USN application.

Most likely you haven't read the patent at all...

The patent includes an active control flow system to modulate bleed (or aux pump) air over the canards and other control surfaces. In other words, blown canards and blown flaps. Blown surfaces are a huge show stopper for the Navy.

True but it's not the US Navy looking for a NGB. The canards are most likely for low-level penetration purposes to help alleviate turbulence. -SP

 

[Mat Parry]

Hmmm......
Canard increase RCS?
We already know that Canard is sensitive, hard to control.

If you will read a patent, you will notice, that canard for this family of aircraft (including transport, tanker and bomber) was only intended for transport version.

In this context the rationale for the canards is clear... (Or at least, I thought so)

 

[Flyaway]

Wait to get the canards I have to get the 21-inch rims too? Is this from Northrop or BMW?

Must importantly does it come with somewhere comfy to sleep, after the business of bring your own comfy seats onto the B-2.

 

[marauder2048]

Most likely the intended vehicle is a drone, indicative of a USN application.

Most likely you haven't read the patent at all...

The patent includes an active control flow system to modulate bleed (or aux pump) air over the canards and other control surfaces. In other words, blown canards and blown flaps. Blown surfaces are a huge show stopper for the Navy.

True but it's not the US Navy looking for a NGB. The canards are most likely for low-level penetration purposes to help alleviate turbulence. -SP

Pretty sure they are used exclusively for STOL a la the blown flaps on the C-17.

 

[bring_it_on]

U.S. Air Force Said Poised to Award Bomber Contract Tuesday

The U.S. Air Force plans to award Tuesday the contract to develop and produce its next-generation bomber, according to defense officials, settling a competition between Northrop Grumman Corp. and a team of Boeing Co. and Lockheed Martin Corp.

The final hurdle in the process was cleared Friday, when Pentagon weapons buyer Frank Kendall briefed senior Defense Department leaders on the selection, officials said. Kendall’s role in the contract was to approve the service proceeding with the award.

If it proceeds as planned, the long-awaited announcement will be made Tuesday after financial markets close, with a press conference by Air Force officials and possibly Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, said the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the contract deliberations are confidential.

The Long-Range Strike Bomber will be one of the Pentagon’s biggest weapons systems of the next decade. Joining the B-2 bomber, with its radar-evading “flying wing” design, the new plane will be the eventual successor to the 1970s-era B-1 and the Eisenhower-era B-52 when it enters service in the mid-2020s.

Secret Contest

The bomber is part of a family of secret, strike technologies including munitions, sensors needed to find targets, jamming capabilities to suppress enemy radar and communications capable of surviving a nuclear blast’s shock waves. The first version will be piloted and carry conventional weapons, followed by a version that can carry nuclear weapons. An unmanned model may follow.

The contest has been shrouded in secrecy with high stakes for the bidders, the last three U.S. makers of large military aircraft. Defense officials haven’t revealed how much has been spent to hone designs and prototypes since 2011 under classified contracts.

“It’s the biggest airframe contract of the decade at a pivotal moment in the industrial base,” Richard Aboulafia, a defense analyst with the Teal Group, a Fairfax, Virginia-based consultant, said in an interview before the announcement. “You have 2.5 players and one contract. Mathematically, it’s fascinating.”

Air Force officials weighed three main capabilities in making their selection: a production cost projected at $550 million per plane, in 2010 dollars --with no development dollar included -- were given the same weight as payload and range for the competing designs, said Loren Thompson, a defense analyst with the Lexington Institute, who was briefed on the program ahead of the announcement. Boeing and Lockheed have contributed to the institute.

When awarded, the contract will have a cost-plus type engineering, manufacturing and development phase that includes incentives for controlling costs and a fixed-price-incentive contract for the first 20 of the planned 100 aircraft, Air Force officials have said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-26/air-force-poised-to-award-bomber-contract-tuesday-officials-say

 

[sferrin]

"Good afternoon. Company X won. Good day folks."

 

[bring_it_on]

Well lets take a final poll..

- Boeing/LM or Northrop Grumman
- P&W or GE
- 2 engines or 4 engines

We may not have a answer to the third question tomorrow. Also, Northrop Grumman reports their earnings on Wednesday so there is a chance that at least some of the reporters could ask them about the competition regardless of whether they win or not.

 

[Ian33]

Northrop Grumman, General Electric.

 

[sferrin]

NG, GE, and (sadly) 2 engines.

edit: I think the "interim" engines will be P&W because I doubt anything ADVENT-based would be ready in time.

 

[jjnodice]

May the team with the best information assurance win!

 

[bring_it_on]

Here's my guess - Boeing narrowly takes it. GE supplies the engine. I hope I am wrong as I would really like Northrop to be a lead on a major cutting edge product once again.

 

[seruriermarshal]

NG, P&W

 

[Steve Pace]

May the best airframe and powerplant win. -SP

 

[Ian33]

NG, GE, and (sadly) 2 engines.

edit: I think the "interim" engines will be P&W because I doubt anything ADVENT-based would be ready in time.

Nope, I'm betting the shocker is ADVENT on-board from get go. After all...they said it was ready for a bomber sized airframe.

 

[sferrin]

NG, GE, and (sadly) 2 engines.

edit: I think the "interim" engines will be P&W because I doubt anything ADVENT-based would be ready in time.

Nope, I'm betting the shocker is ADVENT on-board from get go. After all...they said it was ready for a bomber sized airframe.

That would be a pleasant surprise.

 

[LowObservable]

Award goes to last-minute unsolicited proposal from UAC/Chengdu. You read it here first.

 

[Ian33]

Award goes to last-minute unsolicited proposal from UAC/Chengdu. You read it here first.

So a clone of a Lockheed Martin project at a cheaper price, on time, and with better oxygen supply onboard.

 

[sferrin]

Award goes to last-minute unsolicited proposal from UAC/Chengdu. You read it here first.

With non-afterburning AL-31s? ;D

 

[Deino]

Award goes to last-minute unsolicited proposal from UAC/Chengdu. You read it here first.

You mean this design ?? ... but this time it is from SAC !

 

[malipa]

That engine placement could become a problem... It looks like a mix of a strike fighter and a tactical fighter...

 

[Ian33]

Award goes to last-minute unsolicited proposal from UAC/Chengdu. You read it here first.

You mean this design ?? ... but this time it is from SAC !

Holy Jaysus that's beautiful!

 

[sferrin]

And it's got the Trans Am T-top. ;D

 

[kriseric]

Lockheed/Boeing, P&W dual mode ramjet, Hypersonic B)

 

[Ian33]

And it's got the Trans Am T-top. ;D

Trans Am Top. Sold.... On that like white on rice. EBay PayPal accepted?

Oh and why I vote GE powers.either winners airframe...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-air-force-presses-ahead-with-next-gen-fighter-bo-403255/