sferrin said:
Flyaway said:
sferrin said:
Orphic said:
seen on Twitter
Tara Copp@TaraCopp 14h14 hours ago Expect .@usairforce #LRSB announcement this week "We’re really, really close to the announcement of the bomber," LePlante tells reporters

My money is we might see who's getting the contract and we might see "it's called B-3" (with probably some nice, politically correct, focus grouped name), but that's it. Don't expect pictures or any insight into what these "demonstrators" either are or look like. In other words, very little new information.

Yeah like that's going to sell it too the people who actually at the end of the day are paying for this.

They bought the Blackbird without knowing what it was. Hell, most people today don't know what a B-2 is. So yeah, not saying much will sell just fine.

I hardly think an example from the sixties is relevant.

But then you seem to be advocating that the taxpayers should be expected to stump up the $80 billion plus cost of this without knowing anything about it. Thankfully the AF seem to be following a different path when they stated people were owed more information as they were paying, to paraphrase LePlante from the Breaking Defense article.
 
sferrin said:
Ian33 said:
sferrin said:
Airplane said:
sferrin said:
Orphic said:
seen on Twitter
Tara Copp@TaraCopp 14h14 hours ago Expect .@usairforce #LRSB announcement this week "We’re really, really close to the announcement of the bomber," LePlante tells reporters

My money is we might see who's getting the contract and we might see "it's called B-3" (with probably some nice, politically correct, focus grouped name), but that's it. Don't expect pictures or any insight into what these "demonstrators" either are or look like. In other words, very little new information.
How very insightful. Tell us more oh great swami!

Do you want to make a wager? ;)

First white world use of colour changing skins.

I would think that if an enemy fighter is close enough to eyeball the thing the game is probably over. (Unless the color changing also takes into account IR?)

Game over for whom? The bomber will have the detection advantage over the fighter and if MSDM continues to advance a pretty
lethal self-defense weapon at its disposal.
 
Other things should be available in bomber-size packages by 2025.


As for timing - my guess is a 24-hour notice, after 5 pm, but whether it has to be a Friday.... The media was a bit different back then.
 
marauder2048 said:
Game over for whom? The bomber will have the detection advantage over the fighter and if MSDM continues to advance a pretty
lethal self-defense weapon at its disposal.

Yeah, forgot about defensive lasers. That brings up another point though. I thought lasers that could blind were "against the rules" in combat. (Like hollow points.) I'd think zapping an enemy fighter would fall into that category.
 
Inside Defense' on yesterday's briefing -

The Air Force is "really, really close" to awarding a contract for the Long-Range Strike Bomber, according to the service's top acquisition executive.

"The words I chose were deliberate," William LaPlante told reporters during an Oct. 21 Pentagon briefing he conducted with his military deputy, Lt. Gen. Arnold Bunch. "I'm not saying months away, I'm not saying soon. . . . The message here is we're very close."

In order to ease budget planning, LaPlante said the service had targeted the spring 2015 time frame for an LRS-B contract award. However, a continued effort to "get the program right" has pushed the award back, and officials are now saying a contract is imminent.

Northrop Grumman is competing with a Boeing-Lockheed Martin team for the contract.

The service has made unit cost a key performance parameter for the aircraft's design, setting the cap at $550 million per aircraft in base-year 2010 dollars. In today's terms, that equates to about $606 million per aircraft, according to Bunch. LaPlante noted that according to his calculations, the aircraft will end up being about one-third or one-fourth of the cost of the B-2.

Some analysts have criticized the cost KPP as a potential constraint on the program that could lead to problems further in development. LaPlante said identifying cost as a design requirement both sets parameters for contractors and allows budget programmers to plan for the bomber's future funding profile. He noted, though, that while setting cost requirements can prevent future risk, it can cause problems if the number is not well informed.

"I think if you don't have your requirements set and haven't really thought through your system, you're just throwing a dart at a board doing cost," he said. "The risk of that is you'll pick the wrong number."

LaPlante said the program's $550 million requirement is based on intensive research and analysis and was not an arbitrary selection.

"You can only do this if you have firm requirements," he said. "If your intention is to keep requirements stable and you do analytics, you have a shot at pulling it off."

Program details have been scant as the bomber development is largely classified, and LaPlante and Bunch would not discuss the source-selection process. However, they did provide insight into the maturity of LRS-B technology.

The program is not being managed out of Air Force Global Strike Command, but rather out of the service's rapid capabilities office, which was established in an effort to quickly field advanced capability. LaPlante said the only other program the service has publicly acknowledged as managed by the RCO is the X-37B, a highly classified unmanned space vehicle.

LaPlante said the office, which has about 80 personnel assigned to it, is equipped with highly experienced cost estimators and regularly briefs Congress on new developments. "This was chosen for a deliberate reason," he added.

RCO has access to technology that, while advanced, has been heavily tested and used in operational environments, LaPlante said. Asked if he is concerned that the service's risk-averse approach to LRS-B will limit its capability -- officials have repeatedly said that system is relatively simple and low-risk -- LaPlante said he thinks the program has struck a good balance by taking a modular development approach.

"I think one of the pitfalls that people have seen in acquisition is that if you don't . . . have a regular upgrade path, the system pressures you to put more capability on the first model because they don't believe they'll have another chance," LaPlante said.

The baseline LRS-B will have all of the basic capabilities, he said, but it will include all the necessary "hooks" and plans to be upgraded with new technologies.

"What we're doing is we're saying to the science and technology community . . . 'Hey, here are our standards, here are our interface standards. Please do your S&T so it can land in our interface standards,'" he said. "And so that's how we're doing it. We're building it on the receiving side, but we're trying to make it on the technology push side. I'm pretty confident we have the right approach to hit that balance."

Bunch and LaPlante noted that while integration is a risk to the program, the service has focused on using mature, existing technology in order to minimize that risk.

"The best thing you can do is first understand what the risk is, which we believe it's in integration, and then put a schedule together with the right margins that allow for the discovery when you do integration," LaPlante said. "That's all you can do in any program."
 
lastdingo said:
I doubt any solution to hiding the engine nozzle heat will be found

My Niece worked on a student project where the thrust was ducted along the entire rear of the wing,and a COLD high speed nozzle for vectoring.
 
First LRS-B image per LaPlante's really close theme
 

Attachments

  • real-soon-lrsb.jpg
    real-soon-lrsb.jpg
    113.7 KB · Views: 516
sferrin said:
My money is we might see who's getting the contract and we might see "it's called B-3" (with probably some nice, politically correct, focus grouped name), but that's it. Don't expect pictures or any insight into what these "demonstrators" either are or look like. In other words, very little new information.

Lol, it's easy to bet on this...
"James said she’s grappling with how much detail to disclose on the costly bomber and the competition to build it. But she made it clear that she’s leaning against providing anything that could provide clues to adversaries about its advanced technology.
“We’re most worried about declassifying” what “I’m calling the crown jewels -- the technical capabilities,” she said. “I think you will see more cost and acquisition information,” but “I don’t anticipate much more information regarding capabilities.”
...
“Seems like every time we reveal something like that, the Russians or the Chinese pop up with something similar,” James said when asked whether she anticipated releasing an image or even a silhouette of the winning design.
That reticence was questioned by Rebecca Grant, who worked on the once super-secret B-2 in the 1990s and is now president of IRIS Independent Research in Washington, which works closely with the Air Force.
“Coca-Cola’s recipe is still secret, and we’re all fine with that, but don’t let the Air Force miss the chance to talk about the real technology advances in this bomber,” Grant said. “I want to see a photograph of a demonstrator, mock-up, model or at least an artist’s concept of both winner and loser.”
 
sferrin said:
marauder2048 said:
Game over for whom? The bomber will have the detection advantage over the fighter and if MSDM continues to advance a pretty
lethal self-defense weapon at its disposal.

Yeah, forgot about defensive lasers. That brings up another point though. I thought lasers that could blind were "against the rules" in combat. (Like hollow points.) I'd think zapping an enemy fighter would fall into that category.

That's only if you intend to blind them. If blinding them is a split-second side-effect of making them instantaneously combust, then it's not an issue.
 
flateric said:
sferrin said:
My money is we might see who's getting the contract and we might see "it's called B-3" (with probably some nice, politically correct, focus grouped name), but that's it. Don't expect pictures or any insight into what these "demonstrators" either are or look like. In other words, very little new information.

Lol, it's easy to bet on this...
"James said she’s grappling with how much detail to disclose on the costly bomber and the competition to build it. But she made it clear that she’s leaning against providing anything that could provide clues to adversaries about its advanced technology.
“We’re most worried about declassifying” what “I’m calling the crown jewels -- the technical capabilities,” she said. “I think you will see more cost and acquisition information,” but “I don’t anticipate much more information regarding capabilities.”
...
“Seems like every time we reveal something like that, the Russians or the Chinese pop up with something similar,” James said when asked whether she anticipated releasing an image or even a silhouette of the winning design.
That reticence was questioned by Rebecca Grant, who worked on the once super-secret B-2 in the 1990s and is now president of IRIS Independent Research in Washington, which works closely with the Air Force.
“Coca-Cola’s recipe is still secret, and we’re all fine with that, but don’t let the Air Force miss the chance to talk about the real technology advances in this bomber,” Grant said. “I want to see a photograph of a demonstrator, mock-up, model or at least an artist’s concept of both winner and loser.”

Surely they could stretch to a rendered image of it.
 
http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/usaf-bomber-decision-expected-within-days

USAF Bomber Decision Expected Within Days
Aviation Week & Space Technology
Bill Sweetman
Oct 22, 2015

The Pentagon could announce the winner of the $80 billion-plus Long-Range Strike Bomber (LRS-B) contest on Oct. 23, but likely by the end of next week, according to industry executives from Northrop Grumman and the Boeing-Lockheed Martin team.

“The tea leaves are saying it’s most likely next week,” a Northrop Grumman source said. At midmorning Oct. 22, there was still “a diminishing chance” of an announcement on Oct. 23, one Boeing executive told Aviation Week.

Traditionally, the Pentagon announces major awards after 5 p.m. on Fridays to cushion against sudden shifts in company market valuations. U.S. Air Force Assistant Secretary for Acquisition William LaPlante told media on Oct. 21 that the decision was “really, really close.”

Industry executives have been pushing for a quick decision; both contenders have been funded through the preliminary design review phase, but Pentagon funding has largely or entirely ceased since final proposals for the engineering and manufacturing development contract were submitted sometime this summer. Consequently, the contenders have been keeping large engineering teams together at their own expense.
 
:'(
Consequently, the contenders have been keeping large engineering teams together at their own expense.

:'(

That's not the way to treat any company. They at the very least should of had the good sense to.keep funding open as teams need feeding, housing, they got lives too. Seems the DoD don't care. Sad.
 
I don't think they have anything scheduled for today, so I guess it would be next week.
 
Regarding the earlier quote about using technology from aircraft, "some of which he hinted are classified, but have been built in some numbers", I'm not sure you can read too much into that regarding flying bomber prototypes out demonstrators. I'm sure part of it ar least is systems borrowed from our adapted from the RQ-180 and systems from the F-22 and F-35 (ALR-94/ASQ-239, MADL, other LPI comms and sensors, whatever that secret capability is that the F-35 has that prevents journalists from filming the rear underside if the aircraft).

I still think we'll find in the long run that some of the recent photos were connected to demonstrator programs that were essentially for LRS-B but being run separately for appearances sake. They're si wedded ti keeping this thing on budget that I'm sure there's going to be a lot that went and is going on that's not included in the soon to be released budgetary figures, not so much for security reasons but to hide development costs from lawmakers.

Don't ask me why but I have a feeling NG will take this one.
 
bring_it_on said:
I don't think they have anything scheduled for today, so I guess it would be next week.
They are waiting for Halloween eve to give a Trick to the loser, a Treat to the winner. -SP
 
phrenzy said:
whatever that secret capability is that the F-35 has that prevents journalists from filming the rear underside if the aircraft).

Wut?
 

Attachments

  • 20108609009_3f8c2f6367_o.jpg
    20108609009_3f8c2f6367_o.jpg
    392.7 KB · Views: 369
  • 19473526095_b4ee6cee0b_o.jpg
    19473526095_b4ee6cee0b_o.jpg
    312.9 KB · Views: 354
  • 19285679110_ed51cb2d58_o.jpg
    19285679110_ed51cb2d58_o.jpg
    321.8 KB · Views: 339
  • 19477527641_8ff5691da0_o.jpg
    19477527641_8ff5691da0_o.jpg
    134.5 KB · Views: 327
  • 11820127674_e8d87c5261_o.jpg
    11820127674_e8d87c5261_o.jpg
    670.9 KB · Views: 112
So, since it wasn't today, then it will most likely be next Friday? I'm not sure why they're so worried about the stock market response. Whether it's a Friday or Monday, won't the results still largely be the same for the winner and the loser? Or is it just to allow for a weekend for it to sink in, as opposed to night?
 
Its entirely up to the Pentagon. Companies generally announce results after close of trading on a weekday and its fine.
 
All good questions. It used to be a Friday thing, but that was a million years ago in media time, when Saturday papers were wizened little things, Sunday papers were written weeks ahead except for sports, and the serious reporting didn't come out until Monday morning.
 
Perhaps they can't make up their minds about how much information to release about it or not?
 
Interesting Timing..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P30Jf6bN2EA

Published on Oct 23, 2015
Exclusive: never before seen High Definition air-to-air footage of a USAF B-2 stealth bomber. Designed and built by Northrop Grumman.
 
Or a reminder to the USAF that Northrop Grumman knows how to and is experienced in building advanced technology bomber aircraft. -SP
 
Steve Pace said:
Or a reminder to the USAF that Northrop Grumman knows how to and is experienced in building advanced technology bomber aircraft. -SP

But it's a DoD video, not Northrop Grumman stuff.
 
I really hope that Northrop wins the LRS-B program, if only to keep the Northrop name active.
 
Nobody would dare drop such a hint. Do you really want to be on Doc LaPlante's bad side? Hint: OH HELLZ NO
 
LowObservable said:
Nobody would dare drop such a hint. Do you really want to be on Doc LaPlante's bad side? Hint: OH HELLZ NO

True. Like BringItOn said though, interesting timing. :)
 
sferrin said:
LowObservable said:
Nobody would dare drop such a hint. Do you really want to be on Doc LaPlante's bad side? Hint: OH HELLZ NO

True. Like BringItOn said though, interesting timing. :)

If the B2 was remade at high numbers, and in original configuration, wouldn't it have worked out at 500 million a copy?

I would cream laughing if it was the original B2 with sexy innards that rolled out. You know, hidden in plain sight.
 
Northrop has been much more visible in the PR ( Print, TV, and social media) for the program, a sign perhaps of what loosing the program may do to their capacity to design and produce high performance aircraft.
 
bring_it_on said:
Northrop has been much more visible in the PR ( Print, TV, and social media) for the program, a sign perhaps of what loosing the program may do to their capacity to design and produce high performance aircraft.

And to remind your local congressmen and their constituents that past results should predict future performance.

LM and Boeing announced quarterly results last week and what LM's CEO said about how they bid on LRS-B implied to me at least
that it was a very low bid i.e. one that might have entailed getting board authorization.

NG announces results this week which overlaps with Precision Strike 2015. Could be interesting...
 
Ian33 said:
sferrin said:
LowObservable said:
Nobody would dare drop such a hint. Do you really want to be on Doc LaPlante's bad side? Hint: OH HELLZ NO

True. Like BringItOn said though, interesting timing. :)

If the B2 was remade at high numbers, and in original configuration, wouldn't it have worked out at 500 million a copy?

I would cream laughing if it was the original B2 with sexy innards that rolled out. You know, hidden in plain sight.

A B-2E Super Spirit? ;D
 
Candidates are these three?
 

Attachments

  • lockheed-boeing-long-range-strike.jpg
    lockheed-boeing-long-range-strike.jpg
    31.2 KB · Views: 272
  • 635570048174454101-AIR-BTN-New-bomber.jpg
    635570048174454101-AIR-BTN-New-bomber.jpg
    78.8 KB · Views: 641
  • LRS.jpg
    LRS.jpg
    45.7 KB · Views: 265
When you look at that ADP graphic with the different options, doesn't that planform look similar to what Northrop showed about a year ago in their commercial where the only thing you could see was the shadow of the bomber on the clouds?


I'm definitely not saying they represent the new bomber, it was just something I seemed to notice while looking at it.
 
sferrin said:
blackkite said:
Candidates are these three?

I'd bet it's closest to the bottom of the three.

You better bet on an A-12 revival if you think it'll go extreme radar stealth.


There was so much talk about LRS-B being a first rate sensor platform that a huge emphasis on stealth doesn't make much sense. Active radar is a hugely powerful sensor - you can detect if not identify trucks at 300 km nowadays. Or detect the traces (!) left behind by vehicles which recently drove over a field - or detect whether someone has moved his trash can by a few metres, 200 km away. That' sick and no premier sensor platform could be such a thing without it.

Instead of stealth, a huge load of countermeasures (lasers, towed or even recoverable free-flying decoys, anti-missile missiles) could be the way chosen.


The artistic impressions above remind me A LOT of the "ATF" artistic impressions of the 80's, which were ALL far from the real deal YF-22 and YF-23.
 
bring_it_on said:
Northrop has been much more visible in the PR ( Print, TV, and social media) for the program, a sign perhaps of what loosing the program may do to their capacity to design and produce high performance aircraft.
LM is actively promoting SW since this February (updated site section, YouTube videos, SMM)
 
blackkite said:
Candidates are these three?
First is dead end - LM S-SUCAS from 2005.
Other two are NGB concepts from 2008.
Well, those two can show a way of thinking for LRS-B as well.
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom