USAF's Bomber Will Be One Aircraft, Not Many By DAVE MAJUMDAR
Published: 15 Jul 2011 16:29

The U.S. Air Force's new Long Range Strike (LRS) family of systems will not consist of multiple aircraft types, as widely believed. Instead, the service will most likely develop a single bomber airframe that will be able to conduct a range of missions, says the service's deputy chief of staff for operations, plans and requirements. Depending upon its payload, said Lt. Gen. Herbert "Hawk" Carlisle, the new bomber will be able do everything from electronic attack (EA) to intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) - and will be key to the U.S. military services' emerging AirSea Battle doctrine. "When we talk a family of systems, I don't necessarily think you're going to make four different airframes or five different airframes," Carlisle said in a July 14 interview. "There is either the ability to plug and play, or the same platform with different capabilities being ISR, EA or kinetic attack, or you have the ability of using other techniques of cross-domain and multi-domain capability to bring those things to bear."


Carlisle spoke just hours after the outgoing vice chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, Marine Corps Gen. James Cartwright, questioned the requirements being set for the bomber program. A self-confessed "bomber-hater," Cartwright told reporters that he wonders whether the aircraft, slated to be optionally manned, needs a human crew. ICBMs and submarine-launched ballistic missiles don't have people aboard them, he reasoned. "Nobody has shown me anything that requires a person in the airplane. Nobody," Cartwright said. "I'm waiting for that argument and I haven't found it yet." The survivability technologies needed to build an aircraft as the Air Force wants would just make the plane unaffordable, he said. Cartwright said he believes the Air Force needs to think about an aircraft inexpensive enough to buy by the hundreds, not the 80 to 100 bombers planned.


He said the plane should be "a truck that has today's state-of-the-art survivability attributes," yet conceded, "A long-range, long-endurance asset that's an air-breather makes a lot of sense." Carlisle said the number of planned bombers reflects much analysis. "We've done a lot of work on the analysis of the fighter-bomber blend," he said. "There are scenarios where you rely on a heavier requirement for bombers and less for fighter aircraft, and there is the reverse … all the analysis indicates that we have that mix about right." Carlisle said the bomber would not be a modular aircraft, but might carry mission-specific payloads.


"It very possibly could be where the payload could be an ISR package, EA package or a kinetic strike package," or even carry enough gear to do several jobs at once, he said. Carlisle cited the F-22 Raptor, the stealth fighter jet that used to be described as an electronic vacuum cleaner that would "suck up intel." Mark Gunzinger, an analyst at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments (CSBA) in Washington, said he expected a multi-mission bomber. "You'd want those attributes for an aircraft you'd expect to operate in non-permissive environments, where you may not have a secure command-and-control link," said Gunzinger, a former Air Force B-52 bomber pilot. He said the aircraft would need to be able to defend itself and be able to find and track its own targets. Carlisle said the bomber program will be key to the AirSea battle concept that the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps are working on together. The concept is meant to defeat emerging anti-access/area denial (A2/AD) threats, Carlisle said. "Without the Long Range Strike family of systems, you can't do AirSea battle," Gunzinger said.


The bomber, when operating in highly contested areas, would be supported by assets in space and the cyber domain, Carlisle said. And, he hinted, the other services might in turn be vital to the bomber as it punches through the teeth of enemy air defenses. "It could be supported by a submarine," he said. "It's AirSea battle, it's the whole integration of multi-domain and cross-domain capabilities." Gunzinger said using the Navy's submarines to help knock out the most potent of the enemy's air defenses would greatly increase the new bomber's potential. "Undersea capabilities would play a critical role in AirSea battle as we described it at CSBA," he said. AirSea battle will be a comprehensive concept that will include everything from training, to doctrine, to new "materiel solutions" to allow the three services to work together much more tightly, Carlisle said.



One of those solutions could be a new Navy long-range unmanned strike aircraft, Gunzinger said. Much of the concept involves taking advantage of the unique capabilities of each service to support the others against A2/AD threats so that they work in a complementary fashion, Carlisle said. In some cases, all three services will have to possess a certain capability, he said. In others, one will take the lead, and there also are areas where both the Navy and Air Force will have to develop completely new capabilities.


"We've taken 'joint' to the next level. So it's beyond 'joint,' it's integrated across domains," Carlisle said. "It's F-35s, the bomber, it's submarines, it's surface capabilities, it's space capability, it covers the spectrum." AirSea battle is not necessarily designed for the western Pacific theater, but rather for the Air Force and Navy's global responsibilities, Carlisle said. Gunzinger cited Iran as another nation that is developing capabilities to prevent U.S. forces from operating in its vicinity.
 
Original Blackswift/Falcon thread: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8846.0.html
 
hmmmm..... some silver paint.... viola! B)
 

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Sundog said:
My guess is they would use synthetic vision, which is very advanced now, for the crew to see.
I was thinking the same thing, although at first I was in disbelief that it was indeed the canopy I was seeing in the middle of the aircraft!

Supersonic with no tails...I'm guessing some combo of thrust-vectoring, split control surfaces and/or forebody vortex control would be used for yaw? It really does seem that tailless is the wave of the future, based on so many concepts that I've seen.

EDIT: Oh wait...are those two verticals on the engines? Kinda hard for me to see.
 
Kryptid said:
EDIT: Oh wait...are those two verticals on the engines? Kinda hard for me to see.
They are. Two inward canted tails. I didn't see those until you asked.
 
sferrin said:
flateric said:
good ol' NG QSP LRS surfaced again at AFA 2011 - via Stephen Trimble
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2011/09/photos-fighter-bomber-trainer.html
if you thought, that Tu-22 crews had bad visibility at take-off and landing...here comes a new champ)

Can you say "long takeoff run"?

Certainly. That plane has such a low aspect ratio its bound to be plagued with high takeoff speeds like the pure delta aircraft were.

I'd imagine the vision shouldn't be an issue if a DAS-like feature is added into the airframe. With the level of SA promised with that system, why wouldn't they?

Honestly though I didn't even notice any rudders on that pic until Raptor_101 pointed them out. Thanks for finding those inward canted tails.
 
If vision is synthetic, I could see potential wave-drag benefits for putting the cockpit that far back. Seems like it would be easier to make it fit the Sears-Haacke shape that way.
 

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Though I was initially appalled by the presence of perfectly straight-edge canards in the patent images I was relieved to read that the canards are used as lifting canards for take-off and cruise to provide more lifting area for increasing take-off weight and that they fold in flight to eliminate that RCS hazard once the ESM suite registers enemy radar-based defenses. A novel idea, even if it adds a few more moving parts to have to maintain per flight-hour. MALD and MALD-J, next generation RAM, and the inclusion of "off the shelf" hardware will hopefully convince Congress and the Pentagon to not kill this off as our bombers are getting a little old for keeping American military dominance all by their lonesome in a world filled with an ever-increasing number of latest-gen S-300/S-400 derivatives and soon the S-500.

Of course, our fair government hates the military so who knows how far this will go.
 
AAAdrone said:
Of course, our fair government hates the military so who knows how far this will go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
 
Gridlock said:
AAAdrone said:
Of course, our fair government hates the military so who knows how far this will go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

It is the % of GDP that means more. ;)

In any case, with the current administration wanting to save money by killing off the future of Aerospace technologies by killing NASA, threatening the F-35, killing off hypersonics research, etc. I believe it is reasonable to be concerned over the future of any sort of military project at the moment IMO.
 
Future Bomber Program Gets Funding Bump:

The Air Force's new bomber program got a hefty funding increase in Fiscal 2012 from congressional defense appropriators. They added $100 million to the service's $197 million request, awarding a full $297 million for the bomber's development this fiscal year, according to the final version of the Fiscal 2012 defense spending bill. President Obama signed this legislation into law on Dec. 23 as part of H.R. 2055, the 2012 omnibus appropriations package, that Congress sent him. The lawmakers included no language in the omnibus bill or accompanying conference report explaining why they added the funds. In contrast, congressional defense authorizers approved the Air Force's $197 million request in the final version of their defense policy bill that went to the President earlier this month and still awaits his signature.

The Air Force intends to field of force of between 80 and 100 new long-range bombers starting in the mid 2020s. Serve officials have not nailed down the specific requirements for the future platform yet. (See also Bomber not Derailed by Sentinel's Loss.)
 
AAAdrone said:
Gridlock said:
AAAdrone said:
Of course, our fair government hates the military so who knows how far this will go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

It is the % of GDP that means more. ;)

In any case, with the current administration wanting to save money by killing off the future of Aerospace technologies by killing NASA, threatening the F-35, killing off hypersonics research, etc. I believe it is reasonable to be concerned over the future of any sort of military project at the moment IMO.

Still #10. Given that all of the higher countries are middle-eastern (Oil states and Israel), as well as a African countries with tiny GDPs and ongoing civil wars... that isn't so bad. It certainly dwarfs Canada.
 
So today I read that the USAF have decided the Next Generation Bomber will NOT be nuclear capable until it is added as an upgrade capability at a later date.

Question: Does this mean that its not able to target or drop nuclear capable munitions or is it do with electrical shielding and NBC capability so it can fly and fight inside a nuclear war type environment?
 
Article from February 2012 Air Force Association Magazine:

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Documents/2012/February%202012/0212time.pdf
 
Ian33 said:
So today I read that the USAF have decided the Next Generation Bomber will NOT be nuclear capable until it is added as an upgrade capability at a later date.

Question: Does this mean that its not able to target or drop nuclear capable munitions or is it do with electrical shielding and NBC capability so it can fly and fight inside a nuclear war type environment?
Well, anything that can drop anything is nuclear capable. What I believe they're doing is just throwing out a cover story about not being nuclear capabale. With cruise missles, there's no need to harden against EM pulse. And then the Bones have those snap-in windscreen coverings to save the pilots eyes against the intense light from a nearby blast. Probably more so because in the event of an all out nuclear war with Russia (1980s), there would be so many explosions (not from the bombers "bombs") going off and the planes needed to be hardened against those "stray" blasts from other ALCMs and MRVs. The Cold War is over, so that scenarion will not happen. If its a bomber, and it can launch ALCMs, its nuclear capabale.
 
tacitblue said:
If its a bomber, and it can launch ALCMs, its nuclear capabale.

Provided it has the right black boxes to allow nuclear weapons to be armed and released. That's probably what they'd hold until the upgrade, making them definitively non-nuclear capable until that point.
 
AAADrone isn't the S-500 a pure ABM system much like THAAD?

I must say that it's good to see this area getting a bit more focus, but I have minimum faith in Congress seeing it through.

BTW I'm a sucker for long acronyms, so what is this program currently being called? Or is it still in the realm of studies not housed under a greater program?
 
Sort of. It can intercept AEW&C and Jamming aircraft. Still, I don't know how flexible this system is, so my bad. :-[
 
bobbymike said:
Article from February 2012 Air Force Association Magazine:

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Documents/2012/February%202012/0212time.pdf
Dear diary, Jackpot! Those designs are amazing. I loved the diamond YF-23'esque bomber. That I would love to see.

Now if anyone could explain how I can save a picture from the Pdf file I'd be appreciative :)
 
FB-23 early concept by Eric Simonsen for AIR FORCE Magazine, February 2012, page 32+33


This concept reminds me more of that concept about a secret aircraft flying out from a RAF/USAF base in the UK. ???
I remember seeing another picture of this concept in AFM during the 90's.
 

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Most of the conceptual designs shown in the issue are several years old....strange move from AFA.
 
That FB-23 concept looks like a TSR-2 front fuselage married to some F-23 bits ...
 
fightingirish said:
FB-23 early concept by Eric Simonsen for AIR FORCE Magazine, February 2012, page 32+33


This concept reminds me more of that concept about a secret aircraft flying out from a RAF/USAF base in the UK. ???
I remember seeing another picture of this concept in AFM during the 90's.

It also looks like that edited picture of the top view of PAV-1 used in Bill Rose's Secret Projects: Military Space Technology to depict a possible F-23 derived Aurora.
 
Pure speculation of course and probably easily debunkable by the more knowledgeable members, but I just get a sense from open source information about the level of classified spending that "something", a testbed? is flying.
 
What is the vehicle on the first page? Just an example of hypersonic strike?

It looks like it would be more at home on the Isinglass thread than in this kind of article.
 
bobbymike said:
Pure speculation of course and probably easily debunkable by the more knowledgeable members, but I just get a sense from open source information about the level of classified spending that "something", a testbed? is flying.

Nothing to test at this point. There aren't a lot of requirements other than "make it affordable this time". If the requirements dictated something that had a high degree of risk, or required an investment to mature a critical enabling technology, that would necessitate a demonstrator. As far as DoD is concerned "affordable stealth" has been proven by the F-35. Saying otherwise could put the F-35 at risk, so.....

Anyway, not sure if this has been posted before.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA511459
 
LRS-B is supposed to be subsonic anyway so a lot of the "artist's conceptions" are null and void in terms of depicting the goal of this program. It is essentially supposed to be like the X-47 except scaled up and "optionally manned" with a different planform configuration to optimize for operation off of longer runways, greater range, higher operating altitudes, and other parameters associated with a manned bomber-sized aircraft (though it won't be as large as a B-2).

The project is meant to use off the shelf technologies that are all well tested and understood. Whatever risk there is is minimal. The article also states that funding for LRS-B will not be classified.
 
I dont think LRS-B will be a subsonic plane its impossible to be a penetrate bomber with this kind of speed. AA defense will defeat easy a subsonic x-47 type bomber. To be abble to penetrate China defense you must go speed and very high altitude, PAK DA bomber will be a supersonic bomber, so the USAF must have the same thing.
 
dark sidius said:
I dont think LRS-B will be a subsonic plane its impossible to be a penetrate bomber with this kind of speed. AA defense will defeat easy a subsonic x-47 type bomber. To be abble to penetrate China defense you must go speed and very high altitude, PAK DA bomber will be a supersonic bomber, so the USAF must have the same thing.

It's safer not to be seen than to be seen just going a little faster. The B-1B, with it's lower RCS, is more survivable than the B-1A which was twice as fast. Anymore the biggest reason for speed is reaction time to putting bombs on target.
 

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