US Army - Lockheed Martin Long Range Precision Fires (LRPF)

isayyo2 said:
Though I wish 8” guns would come back into vogue, the hull is marked AGS on multiple areas. That test a few years back had all the prototype and in-service 155mm platforms (M777, M109, ERCA, AGS).

Here are some additional pics of the test rig.
thedeaddistrict.blogspot.com

Advanced gun System (AGS) trials during Advanced Battle Management Systems (ABMS) test

The Hypervelocity Projectile (HVP) shot from an Advanced gun System (AGS) tube mounted on a M110 8-inch howitzer chassis during the Advanced...
thedeaddistrict.blogspot.com thedeaddistrict.blogspot.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/ip5ku9
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/ip5ku9/xm1299_and_m110based_ags_test_vehicle_firing_bae/
Click to expand...
will remain skeptical as there are reasons for an untrue internet story to be conveyed by the folks @ Yuma, as @ the 1:55 mark a fixed naval gun mount is clearly visible. Such a mount is likely cheaper and even more genuine means of testing a ship mounted AGS....not sure if switching out 127mm with 155mm is even that difficult and both barrels etc. and likely both systems are available to the Yuma folks.
Yuma still can test all kinds of barrel configurations and keeping RD&TE options open. Who knows what type of SLRC components were already purchased, for instance. US 203mm rds being found in Ukr remains curious.
www.state.gov

U.S. Security Cooperation with Ukraine - United States Department of State

The United States, our allies, and our partners worldwide are united in support of Ukraine in response to Russia’s premeditated, unprovoked, and unjustified war against Ukraine.  We have not forgotten Russia’s earlier aggression in eastern Ukraine and occupation following its unlawful seizure of...
www.state.gov www.state.gov
 
jsport said:
will remain skeptical as there are reasons for an untrue internet story to be conveyed by the folks @ Yuma, as @ the 1:55 mark a fixed naval gun mount is clearly visible. Such a mount is likely cheaper and even more genuine means of testing a ship mounted AGS....not sure if switching out 127mm with 155mm is even that difficult and both barrels etc. and likely both systems are available to the Yuma folks.
Yuma still can test all kinds of barrel configurations and keeping RD&TE options open. Who knows what type of SLRC components were already purchased, for instance. US 203mm rds being found in Ukr remains curious.
www.state.gov

U.S. Security Cooperation with Ukraine - United States Department of State

The United States, our allies, and our partners worldwide are united in support of Ukraine in response to Russia’s premeditated, unprovoked, and unjustified war against Ukraine.  We have not forgotten Russia’s earlier aggression in eastern Ukraine and occupation following its unlawful seizure of...
www.state.gov www.state.gov
Click to expand...
ISSUE with that.

That gun.

What ever Caliber it is.

Is far too THIN to be a 203mm. They are far thicker then that. The Russia 2s7 Pion is a good example of what a modern 203mm gun be like and that is noticeably thicker then the Gun on the M107/110 Chasis. Its closer to the 155mm then it is 203mm size wise, you can see it when it by the Paladins. I can see it being a M113A2 175mm gun, those do have similar profiles, but only Israel uses those after the US Dropped them from the Nam Barrel explosions.

As for change barrels between 127mm and 155mm?

Yeah.. NO.

That is an entire inch of difference between them.

You need to switch out the entire breach system and all the related gear. Cause you will not be fitting a 6 inch wide object into a 5 inch hole.
 
Firefinder said:
ISSUE with that.

That gun.

What ever Caliber it is.

Is far too THIN to be a 203mm. They are far thicker then that. The Russia 2s7 Pion is a good example of what a modern 203mm gun be like and that is noticeably thicker then the Gun on the M107/110 Chasis. Its closer to the 155mm then it is 203mm size wise, you can see it when it by the Paladins. I can see it being a M113A2 175mm gun, those do have similar profiles, but only Israel uses those after the US Dropped them from the Nam Barrel explosions.
Click to expand...
The original pic posted clearly shows a barrel larger than 155mm.

www.alamy.com

An Advanced Gun System Prototype, Extended Range Cannon Artillery and M110 Advanced Gun System are positioned to support Advanced Battle Management Systems (ABMS) Onramp 2 at White Sands Mission Range, New Mexico on Aug. 28, 2020. The effect ABMS is

Download this stock image: An Advanced Gun System Prototype, Extended Range Cannon Artillery and M110 Advanced Gun System are positioned to support Advanced Battle Management Systems (ABMS) Onramp 2 at White Sands Mission Range, New Mexico on Aug. 28, 2020. The effect ABMS is attempting to...
www.alamy.com www.alamy.com
Firefinder said:
As for change barrels between 127mm and 155mm?

Yeah.. NO.

That is an entire inch of difference between them.
Click to expand...
The Naval platform could well easily be 155mm in the first place as Yuma/Army never had a reason to mount a 127mm on their range, that is a Dahlgren thing but Yuma did have a reason for 155mm.
There are two different apparent muzzle configurations, the one in the vid and the one on the static vehicle. Who knows the configurations and various variable testing occurring.
 
Last edited:
jsport said:
The Naval platform could well easily be 155mm in the first place as Yuma/Army never had a reason to mount a 127mm on their range, that is a Dahlgren thing but Yuma did have a reason for 155mm.
Click to expand...

This is utterly wrong.

A potion of the Navy's 127mm ERGM development campaign was shot at Yuma, for starters. And I'm reasonably confident it wasn't the first.

The Naval Surface Fire Support Program Office at Naval Sea Systems Command and its Extended Range Guided Munition (ERGM) development team conducted successful rocket motor and airframe tests at proof launch pressure (greater than tactical launch pressure). Conducted on May 14, 2002 at Yuma Proving Grounds, in Yuma, Ariz., the tests consisted of seven ERGM test rounds fired at proof pressure. Four of the ERGM rounds contained live rocket motors, while three "slugs" or dummy rounds, with a new tactical tail fin assembly, were fired to evaluate airframe stability. All seven rounds, as indicated by Weibel radar, exhibited stable flight and flew to their expected impact point.
Click to expand...

EX-171 ERGM Extended-Range Guided Munition

www.globalsecurity.org www.globalsecurity.org
 
Josh_TN said:
Pretty confident 203mm is dead to the US.
Click to expand...

As far as I know the US retired its' M110 8" cannons they are still in service with a number of armies around the world and for example the Turks are currently retiring their M110 units so I won't be surprised if they end up in Ukraine.
 
NMaude said:
As far as I know the US retired its' M110 8" cannons they are still in service with a number of armies around the world and for example the Turks are currently retiring their M110 units so I won't be surprised if they end up in Ukraine.
Click to expand...
This was my favourite (still used by Greece).

en.wikipedia.org

M107 self-propelled gun - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
I'd really like to see the Ukrainians giving the Russians a well deserved 8" rogering right up the Khyber on the battlefield.
 
TomS said:
This is utterly wrong.

A potion of the Navy's 127mm ERGM development campaign was shot at Yuma, for starters. And I'm reasonably confident it wasn't the first.



EX-171 ERGM Extended-Range Guided Munition

www.globalsecurity.org www.globalsecurity.org
Click to expand...
Even if 127mm is a thing at Yuma that does not mean some "activities" involving the 203mm aren't going on at Yuma. The idea the 203mm is dead issue when 200K rds are going to Ukr from the US is questionable , old rds maybe, maybe not, conversations are being had. US Artillery folks are never going let that gun and its possibilities go. What is the below to be countered w/
www.defenseone.com

China's Secretive Quest for Heavier Artillery

A now-deleted post reveals a research contract to test-fire 203mm shells, bigger than anything in the U.S. or Chinese arsenal.
www.defenseone.com www.defenseone.com

 
Last edited:
jsport said:
The original pic posted clearly shows a barrel larger than 155mm.

www.alamy.com

An Advanced Gun System Prototype, Extended Range Cannon Artillery and M110 Advanced Gun System are positioned to support Advanced Battle Management Systems (ABMS) Onramp 2 at White Sands Mission Range, New Mexico on Aug. 28, 2020. The effect ABMS is

Download this stock image: An Advanced Gun System Prototype, Extended Range Cannon Artillery and M110 Advanced Gun System are positioned to support Advanced Battle Management Systems (ABMS) Onramp 2 at White Sands Mission Range, New Mexico on Aug. 28, 2020. The effect ABMS is attempting to...
www.alamy.com www.alamy.com

1691848043892.png
Click to expand...
Appears to be two different barrels
 
NMaude said:
As far as I know the US retired its' M110 8" cannons they are still in service with a number of armies around the world and for example the Turks are currently retiring their M110 units so I won't be surprised if they end up in Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Eight inch shells already have been seen there fired from presumably Pion. I don't think there's any rush to provide additional guns in this caliber given the lack of mobility and very slow rate of fire. Not really sure why there are people who "miss" them; they don't bring anything to the table. The M107 at least brought extreme range, though with a pretty heavy accuracy cost.
 
Josh_TN said:
Eight inch shells already have been seen there fired from presumably Pion. I don't think there's any rush to provide additional guns in this caliber given the lack of mobility and very slow rate of fire. Not really sure why there are people who "miss" them; they don't bring anything to the table. The M107 at least brought extreme range, though with a pretty heavy accuracy cost.
Click to expand...
Range is everything. The larger the gun the more rocket assist propellant for instance. An AW&ST article mentioned in passing that an artillery boost glide rd was being contemplated. How does one get to those speeds? You want 155 but you need bigger. Conversations are occurring and they will not be on the internet.
 
jsport said:
Range is everything. The larger the gun the more rocket assist propellant for instance. An AW&ST article mentioned in passing that an artillery boost glide rd was being contemplated. How does one get to those speeds? You want 155 but you need bigger. Conversations are occurring and they will not be on the internet.
Click to expand...

Range is one aspect, not the sole aspect. More over the US 203mm didn't have any appreciably range increase over 155mm. ERCA is still 155mm. If you need more range you just use a HIMARS instead.
 
Time to reactivate the USS Salem. Just kidding.

Perhaps they should rocket-assist from mortars. Much cheaper.
 
Josh_TN said:
Range is one aspect, not the sole aspect. More over the US 203mm didn't have any appreciably range increase over 155mm. ERCA is still 155mm. If you need more range you just use a HIMARS instead.
Click to expand...
Should be remembered that the "Newest" US 8 inch gun was the M110 gun daring to the late 50s early 60s, even the later A2 L37 barrel was just a stretch version of the original L25 barrel. No enlarge chambering or stronger metals for more powder.

But that time they did outrange the 155mms, even the long 50 cal ones, by a good bit.

Issue is that they continue to improve the 155 and not the 203mm. The oldest 155mm in Nato service is from the late 70s mid 80s. As is the M110 203mm was and is still more accurate to it max range of 30km that the 155mms are without PGMs.

If you port over the same modernize from the 155/58 ERCA to the the M110A2 203/37?

The new propellant for the gun and RAP, chamber and shell design, guidence gliding trick, and longer barrel? Say up to a L50 like the WW2 era M1 8 inch gun or the 2S7 Pion?

You will be able to easily hit the 100 kilometer goal of the ERCA with a Rap shell, and be able to double that with the Ramjets.

Edit: also a bigger shell allows you to put more stuff in it. Either it be guidence, RAP fuel, Ramjet fuel More boom, ALL THE ABOVE...

Also will put less stress on the gun itself, the M1299 is suffering from Bore erosion issued from how much ommpht they are trying to get out of it. Some an 8 inch version will not have.
 
Last edited:
Firefinder said:
Should be remembered that the "Newest" US 8 inch gun was the M110 gun daring to the late 50s early 60s, even the later A2 L37 barrel was just a stretch version of the original L25 barrel. No enlarge chambering or stronger metals for more powder.

But that time they did outrange the 155mms, even the long 50 cal ones, by a good bit.

Issue is that they continue to improve the 155 and not the 203mm. The oldest 155mm in Nato service is from the late 70s mid 80s. As is the M110 203mm was and is still more accurate to it max range of 30km that the 155mms are without PGMs.

If you port over the same modernize from the 155/58 ERCA to the the M110A2 203/37?

The new propellant for the gun and RAP, chamber and shell design, guidence gliding trick, and longer barrel? Say up to a L50 like the WW2 era M1 8 inch gun or the 2S7 Pion?

You will be able to easily hit the 100 kilometer goal of the ERCA with a Rap shell, and be able to double that with the Ramjets.

Edit: also a bigger shell allows you to put more stuff in it. Either it be guidence, RAP fuel, Ramjet fuel More boom, ALL THE ABOVE...

Also will put less stress on the gun itself, the M1299 is suffering from Bore erosion issued from how much ommpht they are trying to get out of it. Some an 8 inch version will not have.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, a modern 8” could extend range over 6”. Accuracy isn’t especially important when guidance kits cost <$10,000 and hundreds of thousands are inventory. Rate of fire would still be horrible and the down range affects significantly worse as a result. And you would have an incredible heavy artillery piece that would be far less mobile than its 155mm counterparts. I think any truly long range work can be left to HIMARS. At -$120,000 per shot with tens of thousands made, almost any AFV is a valid target. If gun launched ramjets ever are a thing, may SLRC program gets reactivated in a truly large caliber.
 
jsport said:
The original pic posted clearly shows a barrel larger than 155mm.
Click to expand...
You do know that the AGS gun tube is much thicker in diameter than the Army guns, right? Because it's water cooled.

And Naval guns in general tend to run much thicker barrels for greater heat capacity (taking more rounds fired before the tube is overheated).
 
www.army.mil

U.S. Army Yuma Proving Ground remains on artillery test cutting edge

Chief of Staff of the Army Gen. Mark Milley has identified long-range precision guided munitions as one of the service's top modernization priorities. U.S. Army Yuma Proving Ground is currently testing a variety of systems associated with the Extende...
www.army.mil www.army.mil

This contemporary test appears large enough to be a 155mm heavy barrel, why use the M-110 chassis if you dont need it?

www.dvidshub.net

1427th Transportation Company Moves 1990s Test-Bed Cannon to Arsenal Museum from Vermont

Capt. John Klimes III and Staff Sgt. Richard Gorman, both of the New York National Guards 1427th Transportation Company from Queensbury, NY, secure this one-of-a-kind experimental lightweight howitzer to a fork lift in preparation for off loading at the howitzers new home at the Watervliet...
www.dvidshub.net www.dvidshub.net
There are test bed guns out there.
 
Last edited:
jsport said:
www.army.mil

U.S. Army Yuma Proving Ground remains on artillery test cutting edge

Chief of Staff of the Army Gen. Mark Milley has identified long-range precision guided munitions as one of the service's top modernization priorities. U.S. Army Yuma Proving Ground is currently testing a variety of systems associated with the Extende...
www.army.mil www.army.mil

This contemporary test appears large enough to be a 155mm heavy barrel, why use the M-110 chassis if you dont need it?

www.dvidshub.net

1427th Transportation Company Moves 1990s Test-Bed Cannon to Arsenal Museum from Vermont

Capt. John Klimes III and Staff Sgt. Richard Gorman, both of the New York National Guards 1427th Transportation Company from Queensbury, NY, secure this one-of-a-kind experimental lightweight howitzer to a fork lift in preparation for off loading at the howitzers new home at the Watervliet...
www.dvidshub.net www.dvidshub.net
There are test bed guns out there.
Click to expand...
Budget.

The M107/110 chasis is design to be easily switch between the two types, with there originally being a 155mm to go with the 175 and the 203mm guns. That was drop for just since the T55 series fid that just fine.

So its fair cheaper to basically hammer out like...

4 parts to put a 155mm naval gun on.

Compare to custom building a tractor trailer for it.

One is a afternoon and go home early job. The other takes all month.

Plus we have a few thousand of the things in storage.

Also that first gun is not a heavy barrel, and more importantly.

Is on a M198 style mobile firing chasis.

AKA the thing with all the gear to move the gun around in battle. It an actual proper chasis.

The second one looks to be the M777 prototype, which is also on a mobile tow chasis, but with the wheels off.
 
Firefinder said:
Budget.

The M107/110 chasis is design to be easily switch between the two types, with there originally being a 155mm to go with the 175 and the 203mm guns. That was drop for just since the T55 series fid that just fine.
Click to expand...
Yes, recall the handy capability of 155mm 175mm and the 203mm. New and emerging energetics and material science are reasons to retain.

Firefinder said:
The second one looks to be the M777 prototype, which is also on a mobile tow chasis, but with the wheels off.
Click to expand...
Looks maybe larger than 155 but maybe not.
 
Department of Defense Annual Report on
Cooperative Agreements and Other Transactions
Entered into During FY2000 Under 10 USC 2371

Title: Multi-Role Electro Thermal Chemical Armament System for Future Combat System (Formerly Future Direct Support Weapon System (FDSWS) and Viking)

Awarding Office: U.S. Army TACOM-ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, NJ

Awardee: General Dynamics Armament Systems, Inc.

Effective Date: 23 Dec 1999

Estimated Completion or Expiration Date: 23 Dec 2003


Technical objectives of this effort including the technology areas in which the project was conducted:
Since the OT was signed, the FDSWS program was refocused and merged under the Multi-Role Electro Thermal Chemical (ETC) Armament Program for the Future Combat System (FCS). The Recipient will participate with Integrated Product Teams, perform system engineering and integration, and identify, develop and demonstrate new technologies for lightweight weapon systems. The technologies and concept areas are relevant to ammunition handling, fire control, secondary armament, recoil mitigation, and propulsion for the Multi-Role ETC Armament for FCS.

Extent to which the cooperative agreement or other transaction has contributed to a broadening of the technology and industrial base available for meeting Department of Defense needs:
As part of the OT agreement between General Dynamics Armament Systems (GDAS) and the Government, GDAS is developing a “smart” or “active control” recoil mechanism utilizing Magneto-Rheological (MR) Fluid technology. This technology will reduce the maximum loads and forces seen by the weapon platform. This effort will leverage existing MR technology used in commercial automobile airbags and developed by General Dynamics.

.

Attachments​

 
The Sept. 6 second test this year of the joint Army/Navy hypersonic boost glide missile Dark Eagle-LRHW & CPS test launch was aborted, the first was cancelled back in March, plus the failure with the Navy one last year, in 2022, five test launches were scheduled.

After the Air Force cancellation of the hypersonic boost glide AGM-183 ARRW, raises questions about the future of this joint Army-Navy hypersonic missile program, to date neither Army or Navy have not been able to successfully test fire a single all up test round despite the approx $7 - 8 billion spend.

www.thedrive.com

Test Of Dark Eagle Hypersonic Missile At Cape Canaveral Aborted (Updated)

Two Dark Eagle test launches have been abruptly cancelled this year, raising questions about its planned operational debut this year.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
 
Does anyone know how far along the PrSM is in the LRIP phase yet and what is its' US DoD Tri-services designation?
 
NMaude said:
Does anyone know how far along the PrSM is in the LRIP phase yet and what is its' US DoD Tri-services designation?
Click to expand...
The buy of Increment I missiles is imminent...if Congress passes a 2024 defense budget. At the moment, the House leadership is unable to make that happen. The designation will most likely be publicized when the Increment I buy happens.
 
Something I'm a little confused about is who exactly is manufacturing the PrSM's rocket motor and are there any other details about it known aside from its' diameter?
 
There were PrSM Increment 1 lot buys in Fiscal Years 2021, 2022 and 2023 (procurement). The FY21 buys will be the ones with which EOC is declared over the next few weeks.

Orbital ATK / Northrop Grumman makes the Inc 1 SRM.

news.northropgrumman.com

Northrop Grumman Completes Successful Precision Strike Missile Rocket Motor Static Test

ROCKET CENTER, W.Va. – Jan. 5, 2022 – Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE: NOC) successfully completed a static test of its Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) rocket motor as part of its motor qualification effort. The test supports the necessary...
news.northropgrumman.com news.northropgrumman.com
 
NMaude said:
Something I'm a little confused about is who exactly is manufacturing the PrSM's rocket motor and are there any other details about it known aside from its' diameter?
Click to expand...

Do you ever try searching for this info yourself? When I type "PrSM rocket motor" into Google, the first half of this question is answered in the very first hit.

I end up answering a fair number of questions here not because I have an encyclopedic knowledge of military systems, but because I'm willing to type the question into a search engine and I know how to filter the results.
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom