Tupolev 'Article 80' PAK DA bomber (Poslannik / Envoy)

[Acatomic]

I would assume Russia would also be developing an advanced EA platform to help escort its bomber.

Not really. Russia was never fond to dedicated EA-type platforms, mostly developing external sets for frontline bombers for that role (Su-24 and now 34 as examples)

What about Su-27?

Maybe we could add the name "Messenger" to the topic name.

 

[Deino]

I would assume Russia would also be developing an advanced EA platform to help escort its bomber.

Not really. Russia was never fond to dedicated EA-type platforms, mostly developing external sets for frontline bombers for that role (Su-24 and now 34 as examples)

What about Su-27?

Maybe we could add the name "Messenger" to the topic name.

Why? Only since a fan-site mentions and so so far obscure name?

 

[Acatomic]

No, it's official name is "Poslannik" -> "Messenger"

Screenshot from here: https://redsamovar.com/2020/06/10/actu-lizd-80-pak-da-ou-en-est-on/

 

[tequilashooter]

https://topcor.ru/19177-raskryty-vo...64316904169-prestable-app-host-sas-web-yp-164 same kind of source but calling the bomber the messenger. Also some artwork of "I wish this is how it looked like" images

View attachment 653534View attachment 653535
View attachment 653536

I won't complain if the real PAK-DA would end like this but how likely is such a design?

I am assuming not likely because the NK-32 tier 2 is meant to have a lower thrust which would seem that it would ideally look like the Su-70 but only bigger. But I still get mixed news on the speeds like this https://vpk.name/news/405588_pak_da_stanet_legche_bystree_i_malozametnee.html

The strategic bomber of the prospective long-range aviation complex (PAK DA), which began construction in Russia, will be more speedy and light, said Yuri Sytnik, a member of the board of the all-Russian organization "Officers of Russia".

He noted that today in service with long-range aircraft vks of Russia are built in the 1950s strategic bombers Tu-95, as well as Tu-160, whose age exceeds 30 years.

"We have very good developments, and on the basis of the KLA, where we gathered the best designers and the best engineers who set the tone for the entire world aviation industry, a new strategic bomber is being created, which will be, in particular, more high-speed. Motor-building companies are preparing the engine for it on the latest developments," he told RIA Novosti.

Sytnik stressed that modern technologies allow the use of composite materials in construction, due to which aircraft become lighter and not so much heated at supersonic speeds.

I am no aerodynamic expert but I am guessing if it really does go supersonic which that chances of that might be very low it might get shaped in some form like that, but I dont know.

@Acatomic thanks for that file.

 

[Deino]

No, it's official name is "Poslannik" -> "Messenger"

Screenshot from here: https://redsamovar.com/2020/06/10/actu-lizd-80-pak-da-ou-en-est-on/

View attachment 653594

Oh, then sorry!

 

[Acatomic]

I think one of the most important questions is how high will it fly.

Will it be the same as B-21 or less? Personally I hope it will be the same as B-21's or higher. Maybe that report about high (subsonic) speed is somehow in connection with how high will it fly....maybe.

 

[GARGEAN]

He noted that today in service with long-range aircraft vks of Russia are built in the 1950s strategic bombers Tu-95, as well as Tu-160, whose age exceeds 30 years.

Gosh I love this type of shit) Oldest Tu-95MS is from 1983, so essentially same as B-1B. But sure, "russian bombers belong to a museum" (unlike B-52 youngest of which was made in 1965).

 

[kaiserbill]

I suspect that this exists worldwide, and is simply a way of keeping programmes nudging forward.
Is there any OFFICIAL indication of when this aircraft is likely to be unveiled?
I am aware that the final general configuration, minus tweaks, is settled.

 

[tequilashooter]

Источник: утвержден окончательный облик нового "стелс"-бомбардировщика

Министерство обороны утвердило окончательный облик "стелс"-бомбардировщика, известного как Перспективный авиационный комплекс дальней авиации (ПАК ДА), который... РИА Новости, 02.04.2021

ria.ru

MOSCOW, April 2 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Defense Ministry has approved the final look of the stealth bomber, also called the Perspective Long-Range Aviation Complex (PAK DA), which is being created by Tupolev, with priority given to reducing the aircraft's signature and long-range weapons, a source in the military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti.

"Based on the results of a series of tests of aircraft mock-ups for radar signature, as well as the results of checks of the aerodynamic qualities of aircraft mock-ups at TsAGI, the Russian military department approved the final technical appearance of the PAK DA. Development work under the program is at the detailed design stage, several prototypes of a promising bomber are under construction. ", - said the interlocutor of the agency.

According to him, the new bomber will be built according to the "flying wing" aerodynamic scheme, will receive a subsonic speed and a long flight duration, it will use only intra-fuselage weapons, including promising long-range cruise missiles and hypersonic missiles, the on-board equipment of the aircraft will be maximally automated, up to to optional unmanned use, and the priority in the PAK DA concept is given to "stealth" technologies and appropriate tactics of use, including "long arm" (long-range weapons).

"It is also assumed that the bomber will be able to control groups of unmanned aerial vehicles and will be able to use the entire range of air-to-air missiles," the source added.

 

[In_A_Dream]

I think it's important to keep in mind that it's entirely possible that Russia has kept a manned flying wing test article under wraps for quite some time.

 

[Dilandu]

Really?

Yep.

 

[tequilashooter]

Hope the design will meet the registration by April 20 if its approved to showcase a model. https://aviasalon.com/assets/download/pdf/2021/GC_МАКС-2021_ENG_v_3.pdf

 

[Acatomic]

So that thing in the pictures is what they're making?

No.

Approving the final design while at the same time already building prototype's probably means that when we see the first flight in late 2023 there will be some things missing on the aircraft, maybe flat nozzle.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

He noted that today in service with long-range aircraft vks of Russia are built in the 1950s strategic bombers Tu-95, as well as Tu-160, whose age exceeds 30 years.

Gosh I love this type of shit) Oldest Tu-95MS is from 1983, so essentially same as B-1B. But sure, "russian bombers belong to a museum" (unlike B-52 youngest of which was made in 1965).

Tu-95MS is a still essentially a 1950s plane design, just built in the 1980s.

 

[GARGEAN]

He noted that today in service with long-range aircraft vks of Russia are built in the 1950s strategic bombers Tu-95, as well as Tu-160, whose age exceeds 30 years.

Gosh I love this type of shit) Oldest Tu-95MS is from 1983, so essentially same as B-1B. But sure, "russian bombers belong to a museum" (unlike B-52 youngest of which was made in 1965).

Tu-95MS is a still essentially a 1950s plane design, just built in the 1980s.

Not sure man who said that phrase is aware of that. And pretty sure his feelings about B-52 are different.

 

[Evgeniy]

Speculation?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1384533850504695810

View: https://twitter.com/FelonFrazor/status/1384533850504695810?s=20

 

[kaiserd]

Well it’s not a photo

 

[flateric]

This is Piotr Butowski graphics from the last A&C.

 

[Josh_TN]

It looks like a five year old drew it. All it needs is some PEW! PEW! PEW!

 

[flateric]

You can draw your own version and show us your draftsman' art.
After rollout we will be able to compare expertise level from you and Butowski.

 

[flanker]

Unicornski has an uncanny way of you know... being correct. It is almost as if he knows what he is talking about and has good sources. So yeah, i am willing to bet some shekels this is pretty decent approximation to what the real thing will be like.

 

[Josh_TN]

I’ve no doubt the wings and fuselage will adhere to that shape; it’s the logical shape for any low RCS bomb unless you are trying to break the sound barrier. The placement and shape of intakes seems less convincing. Presumably we’ll know in a couple years.

 

[Acatomic]

This is Piotr Butowski graphics from the last A&C.

Was there any additional info?

 

[rooster]

This is Piotr Butowski graphics from the last A&C.

Was there any additional info?

Being that everything Russian ends up supersized I bet it ends up bigger than a b2. Hell it will probably need afterburners to lift off.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

This is Piotr Butowski graphics from the last A&C.

Was there any additional info?

Being that everything Russian ends up supersized I bet it ends up bigger than a b2. Hell it will probably need afterburners to lift off.

"Soviet microchips are the BIGGEST IN THE WORLD!!!!"

 

[greenmartian2017]

I just saw an article on the Website "Russia Beyond the Headlines." They have an article on the PAK DA. It includes a view of the bomber that I have never seen before, and the credit appears to state "Russian Defence Ministry." (Posted April 17, but I only just saw it this evening.)

How Russia’s new strategic bomber PAK DA will look like

This aircraft will be able to strike nuclear weapons at targets on the opposite side of the planet, without leaving the territory of the Russian...

www.rbth.com

 

[Bounce]

I just saw an article on the Website "Russia Beyond the Headlines." They have an article on the PAK DA. It includes a view of the bomber that I have never seen before, and the credit appears to state "Russian Defence Ministry." (Posted April 17, but I only just saw it this evening.)

How Russia’s new strategic bomber PAK DA will look like

This aircraft will be able to strike nuclear weapons at targets on the opposite side of the planet, without leaving the territory of the Russian...

www.rbth.com

Old fan rendering circa 2016 (posted here)

 

[greenmartian2017]

Very good. Even a PR outlet for the Russians doesn't get their stuff straight. [rolls eyes, shrugs shoulders]

 

[AGS-1787]

So is it going to have 2 engines or 4?

 

[Bounce]

So is it going to have 2 engines or 4?

They should innovate and give it no engines, first true stealth aircraft.

 

[Skunknotworks]

I would assume Russia would also be developing an advanced EA platform to help escort its bomber.

A variant of PAK-DP their new interceptor possibly?

 

[In_A_Dream]

I would assume Russia would also be developing an advanced EA platform to help escort its bomber.

A variant of PAK-DP their new interceptor possibly?

If it's anything like Chinese or American EA projects, we probably won't hear about it.

 

[stealthflanker]

So is it going to have 2 engines or 4?

This, gonna needs to wait.

If one willing to speculate tho, for fuel efficiency, infra red signature reduction and acoustic, a high bypass engine would be preferrable, and considering subsonic speed. Something like PD-24 or if one went for extreme but i wonder about the inner volume constraint, PD-35.

Those engines, assuming 2 of those and B-2 like T/W ratio of about 0.2 will allow MTOW to be in order of 240-350 metric tonne.

 

[LMFS]

We know the core is derived from the NK-32-2, so it should be twin engine and still may be bigger than the B-2.

 

[FighterJock]

We know the core is derived from the NK-32-2, so it should be twin engine and still may be bigger than the B-2.

The PAK-DA may go down in history as the worlds biggest stealth bomber.

 

[TMA1]

So is it going to have 2 engines or 4?

They should innovate and give it no engines, first true stealth aircraft.

Ooh lots of edgy anti ruskie comments rollin thru here! Wonder if they'd ever do the same about chicom kit. The answer is no. ;-)

 

[Acatomic]

We know the core is derived from the NK-32-2, so it should be twin engine and still may be bigger than the B-2.

Some additional info:

ПАК-ДА • Форум "Стелс машины"

Авиация, флот и космос - реальность и перспектива.

paralay.iboards.ru

 

[Acatomic]

So is it going to have 2 engines or 4?

This, gonna needs to wait.

If one willing to speculate tho, for fuel efficiency, infra red signature reduction and acoustic, a high bypass engine would be preferrable, and considering subsonic speed. Something like PD-24 or if one went for extreme but i wonder about the inner volume constraint, PD-35.

Those engines, assuming 2 of those and B-2 like T/W ratio of about 0.2 will allow MTOW to be in order of 240-350 metric tonne.

Rumours put it like this:

- MTOW of 145-150t (smaller than B-2)
- 2 engines with close to 230 kN of thrust each
- 30t of payload
- range of 15000km

First flight is supposed to happen in 2023 (this is from official documentation)

 

[FighterJock]

So is it going to have 2 engines or 4?

This, gonna needs to wait.

If one willing to speculate tho, for fuel efficiency, infra red signature reduction and acoustic, a high bypass engine would be preferrable, and considering subsonic speed. Something like PD-24 or if one went for extreme but i wonder about the inner volume constraint, PD-35.

Those engines, assuming 2 of those and B-2 like T/W ratio of about 0.2 will allow MTOW to be in order of 240-350 metric tonne.

Rumours put it like this:

- MTOW of 145-150t (smaller than B-2)
- 2 engines with close to 230 kN of thrust each
- 30t of payload
- range of 15000km

First flight is supposed to happen in 2023 (this is from official documentation)

Interesting information Acatomic. So the PAK-DA will be smaller than the B-2 in terms of Maximum Take Off Weight, and be able to carry 30 tonnes of payload and fly with a range of 15000km. I wonder how this compares to the existing Tu-160? Better or worse in terms of how much payload can be carried.

 

[haavarla]

So is it going to have 2 engines or 4?

This, gonna needs to wait.

If one willing to speculate tho, for fuel efficiency, infra red signature reduction and acoustic, a high bypass engine would be preferrable, and considering subsonic speed. Something like PD-24 or if one went for extreme but i wonder about the inner volume constraint, PD-35.

Those engines, assuming 2 of those and B-2 like T/W ratio of about 0.2 will allow MTOW to be in order of 240-350 metric tonne.

Rumours put it like this:

- MTOW of 145-150t (smaller than B-2)
- 2 engines with close to 230 kN of thrust each
- 30t of payload
- range of 15000km

First flight is supposed to happen in 2023 (this is from official documentation)

Interesting information Acatomic. So the PAK-DA will be smaller than the B-2 in terms of Maximum Take Off Weight, and be able to carry 30 tonnes of payload and fly with a range of 15000km. I wonder how this compares to the existing Tu-160? Better or worse in terms of how much payload can be carried.

Tu-160 payload is both mediocre and exellent!
Because you need to look at both payload ordinance and Fuel weight.

Tu-160 carry most of its MTOW in Fuel.