Matej
Multiuniversal creator
High costs is a good point against F-35, but I will extend your question: Thirty years from now, would you go into the war with the F-16 against T-50 or J-20?
I don't think the F35 is a 30 year out program just like the F22 wasn't a large scale 30 year out program. The cost is killing the platform.Matej said:High costs is a good point against F-35, but I will extend your question: Thirty years from now, would you go into the war with the F-16 against T-50 or J-20?
Matej said:High costs is a good point against F-35, but I will extend your question: Thirty years from now, would you go into the war with the F-16 against T-50 or J-20?
Matej said:High costs is a good point against F-35, but I will extend your question: Thirty years from now, would you go into the war with the F-16 against T-50 or J-20?
sublight said:I don't think the F35 is a 30 year out program just like the F22 wasn't a large scale 30 year out program. The cost is killing the platform.
30 years from now the UCAV's will own the sky, not the F35's.
piko1 said:even the bgaf pilots shot several f-16 with that old thing MiG-21 in the us-bg exercises every year
sublight said:I don't think the F35 is a 30 year out program just like the F22 wasn't a large scale 30 year out program. The cost is killing the platform.Matej said:High costs is a good point against F-35, but I will extend your question: Thirty years from now, would you go into the war with the F-16 against T-50 or J-20?
30 years from now the UCAV's will own the sky, not the F35's.
That's too simplistic. You are assuming a UCAV will be a dumb "joystick toy" and have no autonomous functionality, and you are assuming its communication will be subject to jamming. Spread spectrum isn't bulletproof, but I would hate to try and jam a UCAV only to have it come shoot me for my effort....sferrin said:sublight said:I don't think the F35 is a 30 year out program just like the F22 wasn't a large scale 30 year out program. The cost is killing the platform.Matej said:High costs is a good point against F-35, but I will extend your question: Thirty years from now, would you go into the war with the F-16 against T-50 or J-20?
30 years from now the UCAV's will own the sky, not the F35's.
As long as you can negate a UCAV by jamming it your claim is pure fantasy and nevermind the problems of it getting shot down.
sublight said:That's too simplistic. You are assuming a UCAV will be a dumb "joystick toy" and have no autonomous functionality, and you are assuming its communication will be subject to jamming. Spread spectrum isn't bulletproof, but I would hate to try and jam a UCAV only to have it come shoot me for my effort....sferrin said:sublight said:I don't think the F35 is a 30 year out program just like the F22 wasn't a large scale 30 year out program. The cost is killing the platform.Matej said:High costs is a good point against F-35, but I will extend your question: Thirty years from now, would you go into the war with the F-16 against T-50 or J-20?
30 years from now the UCAV's will own the sky, not the F35's.
As long as you can negate a UCAV by jamming it your claim is pure fantasy and nevermind the problems of it getting shot down.
So your saying that today's ridiculously high powered processors tied with sensors don't have the ability to perform hundreds of decision loops inside a humans single decision loop, nor does an autonomous vehicle have the ability to perform high G maneuvers that would kill a human, and these autonomous vehicles would be utterly blind without GPS and we couldn't possibly build in any other sort of navigation using magnetic, astronomic, gyroscopic, or terrain recognition? GPS hasn't killed inertial yet....sferrin said:You've been watching too much Hollywood. Keep in mind jamming includes jamming GPS (or disabling the satellites). Also, even the fanciest X-47 would be meat on the table to any fighter that detected it.
XB-70 Guy said:The latest F-35 program fact sheet. -SP
sublight said:So your saying that today's ridiculously high powered processors tied with sensors don't have the ability to perform hundreds of decision loops inside a humans single decision loop, nor does an autonomous vehicle have the ability to perform high G maneuvers that would kill a human, and these autonomous vehicles would be utterly blind without GPS and we couldn't possibly build in any other sort of navigation using magnetic, astronomic, gyroscopic, or terrain recognition? GPS hasn't killed inertial yet....
sublight said:The original question was, given the F35's huge price tag of 388 billion for 2450 planes, would you rather go to war with that or 19,400 of the latest block of F-16's???
sublight said:So your saying that today's ridiculously high powered processors tied with sensors don't have the ability to perform hundreds of decision loops inside a humans single decision loop, nor does an autonomous vehicle have the ability to perform high G maneuvers that would kill a human, and these autonomous vehicles would be utterly blind without GPS and we couldn't possibly build in any other sort of navigation using magnetic, astronomic, gyroscopic, or terrain recognition? GPS hasn't killed inertial yet....sferrin said:You've been watching too much Hollywood. Keep in mind jamming includes jamming GPS (or disabling the satellites). Also, even the fanciest X-47 would be meat on the table to any fighter that detected it.
sublight said:The original question was, given the F35's huge price tag of 388 billion for 2450 planes, would you rather go to war with that or 19,400 of the latest block of F-16's???
I don't know, do they?quellish said:sublight said:The original question was, given the F35's huge price tag of 388 billion for 2450 planes, would you rather go to war with that or 19,400 of the latest block of F-16's???
Depends.
Does the enemy have a stealth blimp?
the F-35 is getting more beautiful by the minutedonnage99 said:pix of f-35c with finished coating and painting
GTX said:...and to reduce weight, they did away with the undercarriage ;D...sorry, I thought it was time for some levity to this thread!
Regards,
Greg
quellish said:sublight said:The original question was, given the F35's huge price tag of 388 billion for 2450 planes, would you rather go to war with that or 19,400 of the latest block of F-16's???
Depends.
Does the enemy have a stealth blimp?
Thorvic said:You mean they are either re-looking at the British rubber deck idea again using new materials or they really have developed the anti-gravity technology and that trolley is designed to hold it in place and stop it floating away ;D.
Abraham Gubler said:Thorvic said:You mean they are either re-looking at the British rubber deck idea again using new materials or they really have developed the anti-gravity technology and that trolley is designed to hold it in place and stop it floating away ;D.
No can't you all see.. The F-35 IS the stealth blimp!
Stargazer2006 said:Now that may explain why it advocates are so full of hot air!
AeroFranz said:Once and for all - the myth of UCAVs pulling 15 g's is ridiculous. Who wants to haul around the increased structural weight required for this level of performance? Not to mention that to sustain that, you need one (or two) mother engines. Just not worth it.
Abraham Gubler said:Stargazer2006 said:Now that may explain why it advocates are so full of hot air!
The most lethal and survivable aircraft ever built and it doesn’t need a runway… That’s not hot air.
Stargazer2006 said:Abraham Gubler said:Thorvic said:You mean they are either re-looking at the British rubber deck idea again using new materials or they really have developed the anti-gravity technology and that trolley is designed to hold it in place and stop it floating away ;D.
No can't you all see.. The F-35 IS the stealth blimp!
Now that may explain why it advocates are so full of hot air!
Stargazer2006 said:Abraham Gubler said:Stargazer2006 said:Now that may explain why it advocates are so full of hot air!
The most lethal and survivable aircraft ever built and it doesn’t need a runway… That’s not hot air.
Hmm... Maybe. I hope you're right. The only measure of how lethal a weapon really is is when it has seen action... Let's just hope it doesn't have a rough time in one-to-one combat with a PAK-FA, which for now seems a lot more lethal to me.
Sundog said:I'm not sure where the PAK-FA and the F-35 would ever meet in combat, but if they did, do you think the PAK-FA will be able to get through the F-22's to reach the F-35's?
Stargazer2006 said:Let's just hope it doesn't have a rough time in one-to-one combat with a PAK-FA, which for now seems a lot more lethal to me.
overscan said:Your figures are way off for radar range I think.
There are no published figures for the T-50's radar, however it is likely to match or exceed the range of the same developers' (PESA) Irbis-E radar. This has been claimed to allow detection of a 3 sq m target at 350-400km.
overscan said:Zhuk-AE is a private venture "budget AESA" by Phazotron NIIR sized for the MiG-29 nosecone (680mm or so) and intended for MiG-29 upgrades. The AESA in the T-50 will be by NIIP, significantly larger and higher technology.
I believe the Irbis range quoted is during a restricted sector scan, in a wider search pattern it would decrease.
shivering said:Looks like the alternative engine is canceled
The ultimate fate of the alternative engine wasn't sealed by the day's vote.