The F-35 Discussion Topic (No Holds Barred II)

sferrin said:
"You could almost hear the pin drop."

Well, there ya go folks, it's a done deal. ::) This is at least the second or third time this article has been posted. It's already been mentioned the ADVENT will not fit in the F-35 due to the 3rd stream. Engine is too fat and if they remove that the case for a swap becomes much less compelling.

Sorry for the redundancy.
 
Pratt & Whitney have form in laziness as a sole source - hence the F110. Admittedly some time ago :) P&W were then added as a second source for F404 engines to keep GE honest. GE then got that back, but with the threat that P&W could step in if needed.


No reason why GE couldn't make F135s as a second source.
 
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
Pratt & Whitney have form in laziness as a sole source - hence the F110. Admittedly some time ago :) P&W were then added as a second source for F404 engines to keep GE honest. GE then got that back, but with the threat that P&W could step in if needed.


No reason why GE couldn't make F135s as a second source.

I get the desire. It's just expensive. We don't need a second F135. A 2nd separate production line doesn't really make sense financially. There is no demonstrated need. And while ADVENT is looking promising, so is P&W's follow on engine technology. Will either make into the F-35 down the road? Probably. Is it a need today? Not really. I'm actually hoping for GE to get the F/X and/or F/A-XX engine award to keep both companies viable.
 
First F-35B Operational Squadron Must Have Sufficient Spare Parts Inventory Before Deploying
Posted: July 27, 2015 Insidedefense


While the Marine Corps' top service officer considers declaring the F-35B Joint Strike Fighter war-ready, the first operational aircraft must have a sufficient number of spare parts to deploy in 2017.
Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, deputy commandant for aviation, told reporters during a July 27 teleconference Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Joseph Dunford is reviewing his recommendations and will make an initial operational capability decision "soon."
Davis said getting spares in place for deployment to Iwakuni, Japan, in January 2017 is "really important."

Marine Fighter Attack Squadron-121 is the first F-35B short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing operational squadron. Davis said the unit will continue to train and get better and must be able to accept the updated capabilities it will receive as the program matures.
Further, Davis said on average the F-35B has a 60- to 65-percent mission-capable rate. As modified jets enter the fleet, the rate increases. For example, the training squadron had a 70- to 75-percent readiness rate a few days ago, he added.
"We need to get higher than that," Davis stated.
The mission capable rate goal for the jet is 80 percent once the program enters full operational capability in the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2017, he said. -- Lee Hudson
 
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/07/dunford-mulls-f-35b-ioc-decision-4-bs-take-out-9-attackers/

WASHINGTON: During the Marine’s recent operational readiness test of the F-35B, four of the Marine aircraft went up against nine enemy aircraft.

“It went very poorly for the bad guys,” Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, deputy commandant for aviation, told me this afternoon. Davis provided few details, saying they were classified, He did say that the F-35s faced a threat that “we have never put an F-16 or a Harrier against.” The F-35Bs, he said, did a “great job.”

I asked Davis about the recent news that the F-35A did not fare that well in dogfight conditions against an F-16. “I love the F-16. It was a great airplane. Still is pretty good, but i would not want to be in a fight against an F-35.”
 
Such inputs are worthless in my opinion.
I suppose we all know the top brass is partially in bed with LM, and overwhelmingly invested in protecting the program because it's all they got.
They wouldn't get a F-16 replacement at all before 2030 if the F-35 fails, and no compensation if F-35 was limited to a small run like F-22.
They will say and write ANYTHING, including intentionally misleading statements and even lies in Congress testimonies, to protect the F-35.

Thus everything that's not verifiable should be considered mere propaganda machine noise, and since it's a military program with lots of classified rest results, basically NOTHING should be believed. This works on both sides of the divide.



The only way to get a true, honest assessment would be if the Congress asked an allied, not dependent or biased, non-F-35-program member country with sufficient expertise to audit at least one F-35 version.

Poland, Spain, South Korea, Japan maybe.
A more superficial competition-type test could also be run by Switzerland, for example.



Trust is always a key in secrecy-veiled government efforts. The citizens tolerate the allocation of tax revenues to programs which cannot be justified to the public because of secrecy. Most such efforts are kept secret enough that the public doesn't ask questions and many others don't leak out enough hints of poor performance so the public doesn't intervene either. The F-35 is an exception; it cost, slowness, neglect of classic air power attributes, record of exaggerations and sheer size attracted attention and captivated it. The establishment plans to ride through the storm and maybe 'justify' the expenses with some bombing campaigns in the 2020's and better news once a couple hundred F-35 are in service.
 
lastdingo said:
Such inputs are worthless in my opinion.

I'll bet if they'd said the F-35 was worthless you wouldn't be saying that. ;) You'd be praising their "honesty" and "integrity". And why on God's green earth would they allow an independent evaluation by a non-customer? When have they ever done that before? When has any other country done that? Other countries get to see what they need to make a decision. If they don't like what they see they're free to look elsewhere. Most aren't. Hell, what country, that's a not already a customer, would even have the experience and knowledge to make such an evaluation? (South Korea and Japan are F-35 customers BTW). Quite possibly the most hairbrained idea I've ever seen here.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/18/us-lockheed-fighter-southkorea-idUSKBN0JW06O20141218
 
Well, you have officially not the slightest clue what I would have done.

You also didn't understand what I wrote, content-wise.
The U.S. is not one piece. It's the people with vested interests (bureaucracy, military bureaucracy, politicians, LM top management, paid-for lawyers/journos/pundits) and the others. The others are paying the bills.
An independent evaluation would be the only way for the "others" to know whether the government effort is cost-effective.

I don't give a shit why those with vested interests would allow such transparency. They don't. That wasn't my point and I did not imply it.
I was writing about the best interest of the taxpayers, and only foolish or naive people think that the government acts for the common good when not watched and threatened with sanctions for poor behaviour. "The government" (executive and legislative branch) is a bunch of selfish people with an overwhelming tendency to act as described by the model of "Niskanen's bureaucrat" and the principal-agent model.
 
lastdingo said:
Well, you have officially not the slightest clue what I would have done.

You also didn't understand what I wrote, content-wise.
The U.S. is not one piece. It's the people with vested interests (bureaucracy, military bureaucracy, politicians, LM top management, paid-for lawyers/journos/pundits) and the others. The others are paying the bills.
An independent evaluation would be the only way for the "others" to know whether the government effort is cost-effective.

I don't give a shit why those with vested interests would allow such transparency. They don't. That wasn't my point and I did not imply it.
I was writing about the best interest of the taxpayers, and only foolish or naive people think that the government acts for the common good when not watched and threatened with sanctions for poor behaviour. "The government" (executive and legislative branch) is a bunch of selfish people with an overwhelming tendency to act as described by the model of "Niskanen's bureaucrat" and the principal-agent model.

ROFL! Wow. Where were you when Pelosi was up there with her "we need to pass it so we can see what's in it"? But speaking of "utterly naïve", "An independent evaluation would be the only way for the "others" to know whether the government effort is cost-effective." it's, quite literally, NOYFB. Joe Blow (that's you) doesn't have the expertise nor experience to grasp whether or not such an effort is "cost-effective". To attempt to jump through that hoop would be an utter waste of time and money on the part of the customer. The customer has been tasked with defending the country. THEY are who have to use the equipment they decide to buy. It's the lives of their soldiers that are on the line. They are the ones with the experience to know what works and what doesn't. They have every right to determine what is best for their needs. Joe Blow does not, and in fact it is the height of arrogant naiveté to believe that he should.
 
Arjen said:
sferrin said:
... and theeere goes accountability. Love those acronyms.

Are you serious? There are buttloads of accountability. It's called Congress, the DoD, etc. etc. etc. Just because Joe Blow doesn't get to see things he wouldn't understand anyway doesn't mean there is no accountability. Most programs (especially that one) are under a microscope like you wouldn't believe. Do you honestly believe they emptied the bars out on Saturday night so everybody could trot down to the local airfield to evaluate the Typhoon? That's not how the real world works.
 
sferrin said:
Do you honestly believe they emptied the bars out on Saturday night so everybody could trot down to the local airfield to evaluate the Typhoon?
Can't remember writing that.

Telling a voter how decisions are made is 'literally' 'None Of Your Fucking Business' - yes, I would consider that detrimental to accountability - if the government acted on your 'principle'.
 
sferrin said:
Arjen said:
sferrin said:
... and theeere goes accountability. Love those acronyms.

Are you serious? There are buttloads of accountability. It's called Congress, the DoD, etc. etc. etc. Just because Joe Blow doesn't get to see things he wouldn't understand anyway doesn't mean there is no accountability. Most programs (especially that one) are under a microscope like you wouldn't believe. Do you honestly believe they emptied the bars out on Saturday night so everybody could trot down to the local airfield to evaluate the Typhoon? That's not how the real world works.
LM just dropped off 2,000 Tb of computer data to my front door as I was selected to independently analyze the entire tri-service F-35 program. ;D
 
Arjen said:
sferrin said:
Do you honestly believe they emptied the bars out on Saturday night so everybody could trot down to the local airfield to evaluate the Typhoon?
Can't remember writing that.

Telling a voter how decisions are made is 'literally' 'None Of Your Fucking Business' - yes, I would consider that detrimental to accountability - if the government acted on your 'principle'.

Sorry but those who matter don't agree with you. Or do you actually believe Joe Six Pack was out there with a stop watch making sure the Blackbird could indeed travel Mach 3 before we bought any? Yes, your "argument" is that asinine.
 
bobbymike said:
sferrin said:
Arjen said:
sferrin said:
... and theeere goes accountability. Love those acronyms.

Are you serious? There are buttloads of accountability. It's called Congress, the DoD, etc. etc. etc. Just because Joe Blow doesn't get to see things he wouldn't understand anyway doesn't mean there is no accountability. Most programs (especially that one) are under a microscope like you wouldn't believe. Do you honestly believe they emptied the bars out on Saturday night so everybody could trot down to the local airfield to evaluate the Typhoon? That's not how the real world works.
LM just dropped off 2,000 Tb of computer data to my front door as I was selected to independently analyze the entire tri-service F-35 program. ;D

Clearly you're just a paid LM shill. Only someone like Pierre Sprey is trust worthy. He designed the F-16 you know. ;)
 
sferrin said:
quite literally, NOYFB
sferrin said:
Thank you.

bobbymike said:
LM just dropped off 2,000 Tb of computer data to my front door as I was selected to independently analyze the entire tri-service F-35 program. ;D
Which is where your elected representatives come in, who have a day job checking the government is using public funds responsibly; the representatives in their turn accounting for the quality of their work by showing their voters how they work. Hopefully.
 
Arjen said:
bobbymike said:
LM just dropped off 2,000 Tb of computer data to my front door as I was selected to independently analyze the entire tri-service F-35 program. ;D
Which is where your elected representatives come in, who have a day job checking the government is using public funds responsibly; the representatives in their turn accounting for the quality of their work by showing their voters how they work. Hopefully.

There are many, many, MANY reports out there on the entire process. Exactly what is it that you think you're entitled to see that there isn't access to?
 
So it's all right to have a look at it? Where does that leave 'NOYFB'?
 
sferrin said:
But speaking of "utterly naïve", "An independent evaluation would be the only way for the "others" to know whether the government effort is cost-effective." it's, quite literally, NOYFB. Joe Blow (that's you) doesn't have the expertise nor experience to grasp whether or not such an effort is "cost-effective".

ROFL, now I see the problem.
You are ignorant about the concept of democracy and the relevant economic theory (and yes, economics is what rules supreme in regard to how to allocate resources).

The citizens may delegate the decision (technocracy), but they may also be uncomfortable with delegating the decision to technocrats and favour maintaining a democratic decision process. The democratic decision process is the only one known to make full use of the population's preferences. It doesn't matter how competent technocrats are at a subject matter. They are 100% ignorant about the population's preferences and thus have no clue whatsoever about the utility of a program to the population.
So you're in favour of technocracy, I was writing about a country that uses democracy instead. As I mentioned before, the technocracy approach is used whenever the population doesn't show interest in the government's activities. Once it does, democracy trumps technocracy in all democratic countries.


sferrin said:
The customer has been tasked with defending the country. THEY are who have to use the equipment they decide to buy.

1. The F-35 isn't about "defending the country". It's about the much less noble activity of "bombing other countries".

2. The budget authority is Congress' privilege, not the Armed Services'. Politicians are in power, not generals.

3. There's no reason why anybody should ever give anyone else a blank cheque to buy tools for his/her own use. It's a recipe for spectacular waste and inefficiency.
 
Arjen said:
So it's all right to have a look at it? Where does that leave 'NOYFB'?
I think you're missing the complexity of the argument in sferrin's succinct reply. The decision making process, overall, on weapon systems, service needs, R&D, construction, deployment are well beyond the purview of the average person while AT THE same time our government is open enough to allow much to be published that can inform the electorate to possibly have tangential input through contact with their elected representatives or discussions as we do here from time to time at SPF leading maybe to editorial pages of newspapers.
 
Arjen said:
So it's all right to have a look at it? Where does that leave 'NOYFB'?

Judas you are obtuse. I've come to the conclusion that you simply like to argue, with no actual thought put to it. Buh bye.
 
lastdingo said:
sferrin said:
But speaking of "utterly naïve", "An independent evaluation would be the only way for the "others" to know whether the government effort is cost-effective." it's, quite literally, NOYFB. Joe Blow (that's you) doesn't have the expertise nor experience to grasp whether or not such an effort is "cost-effective".

ROFL, now I see the problem.
You are ignorant about the concept of democracy and the relevant economic theory (and yes, economics is what rules supreme in regard to how to allocate resources).

The citizens may delegate the decision (technocracy), but they may also be uncomfortable with delegating the decision to technocrats and favour maintaining a democratic decision process. The democratic decision process is the only one known to make full use of the population's preferences. It doesn't matter how competent technocrats are at a subject matter. They are 100% ignorant about the population's preferences and thus have no clue whatsoever about the utility of a program to the population.
So you're in favour of technocracy, I was writing about a country that uses democracy instead. As I mentioned before, the technocracy approach is used whenever the population doesn't show interest in the government's activities. Once it does, democracy trumps technocracy in all democratic countries.


sferrin said:
The customer has been tasked with defending the country. THEY are who have to use the equipment they decide to buy.

1. The F-35 isn't about "defending the country". It's about the much less noble activity of "bombing other countries".

2. The budget authority is Congress' privilege, not the Armed Services'. Politicians are in power, not generals.

3. There's no reason why anybody should ever give anyone else a blank cheque to buy tools for his/her own use. It's a recipe for spectacular waste and inefficiency.

There is Congressional oversight. Thanks for playin' though.
 
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/strike/2015/07/27/marine-ioc-f35-soon-paperwork-dunford/30751515/
 
There is a reason why America is not a "Democracy" (Big D), but is instead a Representative Republic.


Want to give Joe Schmo a direct say in the program, how did that work out for the Swiss Gripen deal?
 
Obtuse. Asinine. NOYFB. Very eloquent.

Sferrin, you start with a categorical statement that the *only* party able to judge what needs to be bought are the people who use the stuff. So, not the taxpayers, who obviously won't be using the kit, but who should simply fork out whatever money is asked for anyway.

Then it lights on you to ask what information people are entitled to but aren't getting. Which means there is information the taxpayers *are* entitled to view, be that through their elected representatives or directly. Because the system needs feedback.

I think the US government is doing better than my own government in providing verifyable information about JSF's progress. How this information is processed is another matter.
 
sferrin said:
There is Congressional oversight. Thanks for playin' though.

And Congress is being overseen by the electorate. The actions of representatives will be judged for voting decisions, so your distraction about a mere intermediary was useless.

Besides, I already mentioned the representatives as compromised by the principal-agent problem and located them with team LM, not with team taxpayer.
 
lastdingo said:
sferrin said:
There is Congressional oversight. Thanks for playin' though.

And Congress is being overseen by the electorate. The actions of representatives will be judged for voting decisions, so your distraction about a mere intermediary was useless.

Besides, I already mentioned the representatives as compromised by the principal-agent problem and located them with team LM, not with team taxpayer.

Sorry, but your fantasy of the electorate running their own independent evaluation has never happened, and never will. Nor should it. Deal with it. (The fact that this even needs to be said is downright scary. I weep for the future.)
 
sferrin said:
the electorate running their own independent evaluation
Could you imagine the OPSEC nightmare that would entail?
 
" Lockheed F-35’s Reliability Found Wanting in Shipboard Testing"
by Anthony Capaccio
July 28, 2015 — 9:55 AM PD

Source:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-28/lockheed-f-35-s-reliability-found-wanting-in-shipboard-testing

The Marine Corps’ version of Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35 fighter demonstrated poor reliability in a 12-day exercise at sea, according to the U.S. military’s top testing officer.

Six F-35Bs, the most complex version of the Pentagon’s costliest weapons system, were available for flights only half of the time needed, Michael Gilmore, the Defense Department’s director of operational testing, said in a memo obtained by Bloomberg News. A Marine Corps spokesman said the readiness rate was more than 65 percent.

While the exercise on the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp resulted in useful training for Marines and Navy personnel, Gilmore wrote in the assessment dated July 22, it also documented that “shipboard reliability” and maintenance “were likely to present significant near-term challenges.”

In the assessment submitted to Frank Kendall, the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, Gilmore said “Marine maintainers had rapid, ready access to spare parts from shore” and “received significant assistance” from Lockheed and subcontractor personnel.

Even with these advantages, “aircraft reliability was poor enough that it was difficult for the Marines to keep more than two or three of the six embarked jets in a flyable status on any given day,” he wrote.

The challenges to keeping the aircraft flying “will be substantially tougher when the aircraft first deploys” on an operational mission under more trying conditions, he said.

New Concerns

That assessment raises new concerns as General Joseph Dunford, the Marine Corps commandant, is poised to decide as soon as this week whether to declare the plane ready for limited combat operations. The Marine version must make short takeoffs from ships and vertical landings like a helicopter.

Major Paul Greenberg, a Marine Corps spokesman, offered the estimate of 65 percent reliability and said Gilmore’s “review and assessment was done with our full cooperation.”

“Although some the report is factually accurate, the Marine Corps does not agree with all of the conclusions and opinions,” Greenberg said in an e-mail. “In some instances, the report contains statements that do not provide proper context or qualifying information, possibly leading readers to form inaccurate conclusions.”

The declaration of “initial operational capability” is five years behind the original projected date of April 2010 that was set in 2001, when the F-35 program began. Earlier delays resulted from difficulties in reducing the plane’s weight, with its propulsion system and with reliability.
Foreign Buyers

Defense Secretary Robert Gates placed the F-35 on probation in January 2011 over reliability concerns. That was lifted a year later as the aircraft’s performance improved, but Gilmore’s assessment may resurrect the earlier questions.

The Marine Corps’ B model is being watched as a bellwether for the F-35 program, projected to cost $391.1 billion for a planned fleet of 2,443 aircraft. The Marines plan to buy about 353 F-35Bs. The U.K. and Italy also are buying the model.

A declaration by Dunford that the plane is ready for limited combat operations would provide for a 10-aircraft squadron at Yuma, Arizona, to take on some combat missions until software giving the F-35 its full capability is available by late 2017.

Four of those aircraft were on the Wasp. One had “multiple maintenance issues” that kept it from flying for consecutive days from May 19 through May 23, according to Gilmore’s report. The exercise also was hampered by flaws with the aircraft’s fuel systems, which experienced two major component failures, he said.
Readiness Rate

Gilmore said a readiness rate of 80 percent would be needed to support a six-aircraft unit for combat operations. Lieutenant General Jon Davis, the head of Marine Corps aviation, told reporters on Monday that the service wants to achieve that rate eventually, but doing so depends on how much funding is provided for spare parts.

The Wasp exercise demonstrated that production model aircraft could be operated and supported off an amphibious warship, he said.

Ten U.S. Marine Corps pilots received F-35B aircraft carrier qualifications and flew 11 night missions in addition to flying more than 76 hours and executing 106 sorties, Greenberg said. The sorties included 100 short takeoffs and vertical landings.
 
An aircraft this early in the program having reliability issues. I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you. (I would like to know how "only half" and "more than 65%" were arrived at.) I wonder if anybody actually believes that even an aircraft that had been in service for decades would be available 100% of the time. Ah, just noticed the author. . .
 
sferrin said:
Sorry, but your fantasy of the electorate running their own independent evaluation has never happened, and never will. Nor should it. Deal with it. (The fact that this even needs to be said is downright scary. I weep for the future.)

You should learn to read and comprehend texts.

#1
I didn't write about the electorate running its own evaluation.
I wrote

lastdingo said:
The only way to get a true, honest assessment would be if the Congress asked an allied, not dependent or biased, non-F-35-program member country with sufficient expertise to audit at least one F-35 version.

This was
(a) essentially about something that happened a gazillion times already - a foreign customer evaluating a potential import plane
(b) claiming that we cannot really trust anybody's assessment of the F-35 because every insider is a biased agent


I've seen plenty types like you, and they all have one thing in common: Strong opinions, yet perfectly incapable of thinking straight enough to think through even modestly complicated topics. The kind of people who prefer to subscribe to ideology or to fall back to archaic "Don't offend my clan!" patterns of behaviour.
To think through an even only modestly complicated case requires to carefully read and carefully comprehend what others communicated - instead of jumping to conclusions and making up fantasy interpretations.
 
Korea & Japan both evaluated the F-35 and are buying it.... Still not satisfied?


As far as not trusting JSF partners... you stated "essentially about something that happened a gazillion times already - a foreign customer evaluating a potential import plane". Do you realize that JSF Partners have better access to information than any FMS customer and are in a better position to evaluate the F-35 (remember they have direct access to the development and get over 10k+ pages of data per month).
 
Is this a "see how fast we can get the thread locked" contest?


One observation: Davis's statement means the cube root of eff-all.


What were the threats? If they were SARH shooters without digital RWR, MAWS or IRST, the F-35s should have dropped as many of them as they had simulated weapons for. If they were simulated Su-35Ss or J-10Bs, a blowout would have meant a good deal more.


What about preparation? If it's Red's first time against a stealth threat it would hardly be surprising if it was lopsided.


"It went poorly". That could mean anything. Zero F-35 losses? Two versus six on the other side?


So it's really not worth arguing about.






[font=proxima_nova_rgregular][/font]
 
LowObservable said:
Is this a "see how fast we can get the thread locked" contest?


One observation: Davis's statement means the cube root of eff-all.

Funny how you treat the "F-16 beat the F-35 in a dogfight" story as though it were brought down by Moses himself on the stony tablets though. I guess if it's "off message" it's meaningless eh?
 
SpudmanWP said:
Korea & Japan both evaluated the F-35 and are buying it.... Still not satisfied?

Of course not. They're customers and therefore biased. The only honest opinion is those of countries who don't buy it. ;)
 
lastdingo said:
sferrin said:
Sorry, but your fantasy of the electorate running their own independent evaluation has never happened, and never will. Nor should it. Deal with it. (The fact that this even needs to be said is downright scary. I weep for the future.)

You should learn to read and comprehend texts.

#1
I didn't write about the electorate running its own evaluation.
I wrote

lastdingo said:
The only way to get a true, honest assessment would be if the Congress asked an allied, not dependent or biased, non-F-35-program member country with sufficient expertise to audit at least one F-35 version.

This was
(a) essentially about something that happened a gazillion times already - a foreign customer evaluating a potential import plane
(b) claiming that we cannot really trust anybody's assessment of the F-35 because every insider is a biased agent


I've seen plenty types like you, and they all have one thing in common: Strong opinions, yet perfectly incapable of thinking straight enough to think through even modestly complicated topics. The kind of people who prefer to subscribe to ideology or to fall back to archaic "Don't offend my clan!" patterns of behaviour.
To think through an even only modestly complicated case requires to carefully read and carefully comprehend what others communicated - instead of jumping to conclusions and making up fantasy interpretations.

You pretty much described yourself perfectly. You're like the child who's told why the sky is blue yet asks the same question five seconds later. Eventually people just start seeing you as noise. I'll bet you still don't have a clue about how things are run and why.
 
sferrin said:
SpudmanWP said:
Korea & Japan both evaluated the F-35 and are buying it.... Still not satisfied?

Of course not. They're customers and therefore biased. The only honest opinion is those of countries who don't buy it. ;)
The nation I trust the most, not to disparage other F-35 partners, is Israel. There is no other nation more serious, by obvious necessity, about national defense IMHO.
 
I treat one as an engineering test pilot's internal report and the other as a press-conference aside lacking essential information.
 
bobbymike said:
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/07/dunford-mulls-f-35b-ioc-decision-4-bs-take-out-9-attackers/

WASHINGTON: During the Marine’s recent operational readiness test of the F-35B, four of the Marine aircraft went up against nine enemy aircraft.

“It went very poorly for the bad guys,” Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, deputy commandant for aviation, told me this afternoon. Davis provided few details, saying they were classified, He did say that the F-35s faced a threat that “we have never put an F-16 or a Harrier against.” The F-35Bs, he said, did a “great job.”

I asked Davis about the recent news that the F-35A did not fare that well in dogfight conditions against an F-16. “I love the F-16. It was a great airplane. Still is pretty good, but i would not want to be in a fight against an F-35.”

To quote the remainder of the article:

In a clear message to A-10 advocates, Davis said the F-35B performed extremely well at Close Air Support missions using Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs) and laster-guided GBU-12s. The aircraft does need a cannon, he conceded, for some missions. The gun is currently undergoing its first tests mounted on an aircraft but it won’t be deployed on the plane until 2017 when the Block 3F software is installed. But Davis was unequivocal in his enthusiasm for the aircraft. “No airplane in the world will be able to touch this jet at Close Air Support,” he told reporters.

Davis said he had made his recommendation about the F-35B’s Initial Operating Capabilitity to Marine Commandant Gen. Joseph Dunford: “He’s got all the paperwork now and he’s going through it.” Breaking D readers will remember that Dunford has been nominated to become the next Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and has been a bit busy recently dealing with nomination hearings and such.

Davis said early models of the F-35B are currently maintaining a 60 percent to 65 percent mission readiness rate, something he expects to rise substantially as more newer planes come to the line. He noted a training squadron with newer planes was “getting 70 to 75 percent rates the other day.” The overall goal is 80 percent later in the program.

The Marines plan to buy 353 F-35Bs and Davis said he has heard absolutely nothing to convince him that number should be cut. It seems pretty certain he has recommended to Dunford that IOC be approved, but, as he put it, that’s the commandant’s decision.

UPDATED The Pentagon’s top buyer, Frank Kendall, told reporters Tuesday he had confidence in the Marines’ approach and in Lt. Gen. Davis personally: “I think the Marines are being careful about this IOC declaration. I’ve talked to General Davis; he’s not going to recommend it to the commandant until they’re fully ready.”
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom