Tesla Cybertruck

Tesla has laid off its entire Supercharger division (500 staff) along with its entire Public Policy Team (they were responsible for environmental policies and lobbying government for beneficial legislation), it says it will reduce efforts to expand existing charging point locations to a trickle and instead focus on maintaining existing sites.

www.bbc.co.uk

Tesla staff say firm's entire Supercharger team fired

The division responsible for the car-maker's huge fast-charging network is being axed to cut costs.
www.bbc.co.uk

On the one hand this makes some sense as they have recently managed to get their charger format accepted as the US national standard, on the other they are surrendering a market lead as the largest charging network in the US just as 7 of its competitors have ganged up to form their own rival charging station network. It also means they will be unable to push for Teslas charging tech to be adopted widely in the rest of the world. I wonder if this was another condition of the deal he did a couple of days ago in China to legalise Tesla self parking and limited self driving in China in return for giving a 50% stake in his China operations to Baidu (Chinese mapper), that Tesla also stepped aside to make way for Chinese manufacturers in the charging space.
 
WatcherZero said:
Tesla has laid off its entire Supercharger division (500 staff) along with its entire Public Policy Team (they were responsible for environmental policies and lobbying government for beneficial legislation), it says it will reduce efforts to expand existing charging point locations to a trickle and instead focus on maintaining existing sites.

www.bbc.co.uk

Tesla staff say firm's entire Supercharger team fired

The division responsible for the car-maker's huge fast-charging network is being axed to cut costs.
www.bbc.co.uk

On the one hand this makes some sense as they have recently managed to get their charger format accepted as the US national standard, on the other they are surrendering a market lead as the largest charging network in the US just as 7 of its competitors have ganged up to form their own rival charging station network. It also means they will be unable to push for Teslas charging tech to be adopted widely in the rest of the world. I wonder if this was another condition of the deal he did a couple of days ago in China to legalise Tesla self parking and limited self driving in China in return for giving a 50% stake in his China operations to Baidu (Chinese mapper), that Tesla also stepped aside to make way for Chinese manufacturers in the charging space.
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I think there was a very real threat of anti-trust lawsuits in another few years over Tesla’s horizontally integrated monopoly on both viable electric cars and charging infrastructure. This also explains Tesla’s generous licensing of their charging standard. Imagine if Henry Ford had had the capital to build a network of proprietary, company owned gas stations to accompany the direct sales of the Model T? He would have fallen afoul of the progressive “Trust Busters” of the early 20s century. As it was, Ford resorted to franchised distribution because capital was scarce, which pretty much screwed the American automotive consumer into the present day. It’s also worth remembering that the early Model T was multifuel, if only because gasoline was initially only distributed in metal tins for home lighting purposes. It wasn’t entirely clear that petrol was going to be the future of small internal combustion engines.

We can’t blame the Chinese for the slow buildout of charging stations in the USA. Or even Tesla. The reality is that there is no more public rapid charging infrastructure in my area than a decade ago. The state talks a good game about going green but doesn’t even require 220v charging points at newly built gas stations. New built restaurants, stores and apartment buildings don’t need to have them either. The reality is that going all-electric in 10 years isn’t going to happen, unless the only people buying cars in 2035 are affluent homeowners with garages and the means to install their own 220v and higher stations.

Electric car adoption rates have slowed because Tesla is the only real choice and has a terrible product development plan. Basically you can chose between dated sedans and crossovers (with baffling touchscreen controls) and an insanely idiosyncratic and inefficient truck. The other car companies are making complete rubbish EVs. It really says something when the cheapest Tesla has a longer range that German EVs that cost 3 to 5 times as much. I’m not even touching on Musk’s public persona.

Adopting Uber style pricing and halting the growth of the Superacharger network make a perfect business and legal sense. When Teslas are selling at such huge discounts, a Gillette business model is the way to go - sell the razors cheap and make money on the blades.
 
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I thought selling cheap electric cars and making money on the chargers would be the Gillette business model, they were taking $7.4bn in charger sales in 2022 and making a $700m annual profit, in 2023 charger sales were up to $8.3bn and they invested to expand the network by 27% (including foreign). Making a 10% net profit margin on charger sales is far better than the gross 16% margin they were making on their cars which also experienced a 56% drop in revenue in Q1 2024.

Model T being multifuel was a myth. There was no fabled toggle on the dashboard to switch between gasoline and ethanol and of the 13 carburetors from 4 different manufacturers used in the Model T, none was rated to run on fuels other than gasoline. Yes the engine was basic enough that it could run on anything flammable if you manually adjusted the air ratio. Ford tractors however did have secondary fuel tanks and a switch for changing which tank fuel was drawn from so that farmers could use whichever fuel was cheapest. Diesel engines at the time would also happily run on peanut oil.
 
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I don't think it is right to think of elon as profit maximizing. No one who is merely interested in money would invest in spacex back then.

Elon is about making history, and penny and dime-ing with CATL and BYD is as interesting as maytag vs whirlpool (well, you could be a fan of appliances) as the EV ecosystem has technological momentum after the barrier to new entry from interlocking incumbents was broken. The rest is noise and cost curves hammering reality.

Some people talk about Elon appealing to tech investors to hold up the stock price. I think that is wrong, Elon is the tech instigator and the reason why he even still have tesla is because of robo taxi into skynet (but done "right") pipeline, as the alternative to microsoft-openai Sam Altman (elon got kicked) and google deepmind Demis Hassabis.

If you are a poor person with no power or ambition you maybe thinking about making more money. If you are rich and have ambition you should be thinking about immortality (neurolink) and the focal point of future power (AI). What else can you spend money on, feeding the Africans or put in a trust that future generations with different values will certainly consume for causes alien to yourself? Oh there is also marketing your own values to the public, and there is twitter.
 
Arent US automotive exports to Russia under sanction? how a Tesla made its way as a gift to Kadyrov might open up some legal troubles for Musk. Kaydrov is also personally under Treasury sanctions under the Magnitsky Act requiring a special Treasury license for any US individual to conduct any transactions, or to provide services or transfer any property or goods into his possession. All Kadyrovs companies and most of his relatives are under the same sanctions.
 
WatcherZero said:
Arent US automotive exports to Russia under sanction? ...
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Do these absurd Cybertrucks qualify as 'luxury goods'?

If so, under Biden's Executive Order 14068, they are explicitly prohibited from export or sale from the US "to any person located in the Russian Federation".

Kinda impressive if Musk has managed to piss off both US government and the EU all within the same week.
 
martinbayer said:
I've started to see some of those moving violation abominations on the streets in our SoCal neighborhood - to me they look like what a four year old might render when prompted to draw a car. But then again, perhaps Musk used AI to produce the silhouette?
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I feel more like the late 1970s "wedge" cars: Lamborghini Miura, Countach, Lotus Esprit, etc...
 
The team at Edmunds has issues with the Cybertruck:
• Our test vehicle: 2024 Tesla Cybertruck AWD Foundation Series
• Base MSRP: $81,985 (including a $1,995 destination and handling charge)
• MSRP as tested: $101,985
• What we paid: $101,985
[...]
So, what do we think of our brand-new $100,000 truck?

"I absolutely hate it." — Steven Ewing, director, editorial content

"When I grabbed the key card to our test truck, it had just cracked the 600-mile mark, but it already had a significant rattle coming from somewhere in the dash. It's not exactly constant, but over small bumps, broken pavement or other imperfections it's quite noticeable. I also occasionally hear something rolling around in here. Sometimes it sounds like it's coming from the rear, under the seats. Other times it sounds like it's inside the dash. Either way, this Tesla has a screw(?) loose." — Keith Buglewicz, managing editor
"Tesla's unfortunate tradition of shoddy build quality continues with the Cybertruck. A brief glance around the internet shows that ill-fitting body panels are the norm, and there are multiple reports of pieces literally flying off while the truck is being driven.
[...]
"As for our long-termer, no body panels have separated themselves from our truck as of yet, but it does share in the poor fit and finish. Most egregious to me is the so-called 'sail' panel on the driver's side. It overlaps the main part of the fender near the front and sticks out significantly at the top of its rearmost joint. It was bad enough that I wondered if it was supposed to look like that for some reason, but on the passenger side there are no such issues.

"Even there, the sail panel seems like a bad fit for the cutout on the fender.

"Then there's the warping along the sides of the bed panel, or the fact that it can't decide if it's supposed to be flush with the plastic surrounding the bed or rise above it. Or the mismatched gaps for the frunk. Or how the front fenders are misaligned with the rest of the truck's nose by several millimeters. Or the multitude of other problem areas.

"Look, this isn't 2011, and Tesla's no longer a new company. It's supposedly a premium brand, building hundreds of thousands of fairly expensive vehicles every year. Its grace period is over, and it should be better at building cars than this. For those who say 'stainless steel is hard to work with,' well, whose fault is it that the Cybertruck is made with the stuff?

"The worst of it all? By what I've seen online, our truck is actually one of the better ones." — Keith Buglewicz, managing editor
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Not all the news is bad, so if you´re looking for something that's guaranteed to turn heads, and have $100,000+ to spare - buy now!

More at the link.
And more goodies here:
www.edmunds.com

Our Tesla Cybertruck Had Another Steering Issue, Then It Stopped Working

Our long-term 2024 Tesla Cybertruck suffered another series of electrical gremlins on our test track, forcing us to park the car nearly an hour while it sorted itself out.
www.edmunds.com
 
Fri September 20, 2024
Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov has accused Tesla CEO Elon Musk of “remotely disabling” his Cybertruck, which had been sent to the frontline of Russia’s war in Ukraine.

Kadyrov claimed Thursday that the vehicle, which he said had been outfitted with a machine gun and was “performing well in combat,” had been shut down, adding Friday that he had sent two additional Tesla Cybertrucks to the frontline.

Musk, however, firmly denied sending it. “Are you seriously so retarded that you think I donated a Cybertruck to a Russian general?” he wrote at the time on X, the social media platform he owns.

Kadyrov repeated his claim earlierthis week as he lamented that the high-tech vehicle had to be towed from the battlefield, saying: “What Elon Musk did was not nice. He gives expensive gifts from the heart and then remotely switches them off.”

“Two more Cybertrucks have been sent to the SVO (Ukraine war) zone,” the warlord added Friday, posting a video of two Tesla trucks in a forested area, each armed with mounted machine guns. The video shows men in military uniforms firing from the roofs of the vehicles.

“The remote shutdown did not affect these vehicles. They are operating normally, without any failures,” he said on Telegram. “You couldn’t ask for better advertising for the Cybertruck.”
 
Arjen said:
Even if the pedestrian is at fault, anyone driving a car should at all times be aware of the vehicle's sheer mass - 1 ton for a small car, all the way up beyond three tons for a loaded big one.
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I don't think there's a car for sale in the US that weighs less than 2 tonnes (~4400lbs). Not even Honda Accords or whatever.

And much of that weight is in .gov-required safety systems like airbags and reinforced structures.
 
martinbayer said:
I've now repeatedly seen a DeLorean (unsurprisingly minus a flux capacitor) in our rather sleepy Southern California Southern (yes, the double Southern is [un]ironically a thing) Orange County neighborhood, so between that and my recent NV LV "tristar" sighting it's like the eighties want their angular vehicle designs back - deja vu all over again, or just simple synchronicity?
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First, the DeLorean was designed by a genius. The Cybertruck was designed by people who are offended by gentle bends in metal on vehicle bodies. All military vehicles have better design aesthetics than the Cybertruck. I've seen a number on the road and find them boring and unimaginative.

For those in Europe wondering about truck design safety requirements. Yes, we have them. The problem, and this is regional, is trucks with overly large to ridiculously large tires. Being hit by a truck with standard tires is bad. Now imagine staring down a bumper that is significantly higher than normal. There should be a limit to tire size relative to bumper height off the ground. If there isn't, there should be.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I don't think there's a car for sale in the US that weighs less than 2 tonnes (~4400lbs). Not even Honda Accords or whatever.

And much of that weight is in .gov-required safety systems like airbags and reinforced structures.
Click to expand...

The government is beholden to insurance companies who want safety and to pay as little as possible on accident claims. In the past, no seat belts., then a lap belt was added. Then an over the shoulder belt and air bags.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I don't think there's a car for sale in the US that weighs less than 2 tonnes (~4400lbs). Not even Honda Accords or whatever.

And much of that weight is in .gov-required safety systems like airbags and reinforced structures.
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Hi,
I believe that there is
  • the Nissan Versa @ 2650lb
  • the Mitsubishi Mirage @ 2040 to 2106lb
  • the Mini Cooper @ 2014lb
  • the Mazda Miata @2301 to 2403lb
  • the Hyundai Venue @ 2612lb
  • the Kia Soul @ 2888 to 2998lb
  • the Volkswagen Golf @ 2945 to 2012lb
  • the Buick Encore @ 3025 to 3256lb
  • the Nissan Kicks @ 2682 to 2744lb
to name a few.
 
Boys and their toys. I wish they weren't allowed to vote though, due to being immature/infantile.
 
... I don't think the toys are infantile. And I don't think they can vote either, even behind the Orange Curtain.
 
aim9xray said:
... I don't think the toys are infantile. And I don't think they can vote either, even behind the Orange Curtain.
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My apologies for being ambiguous (English is only my third language), but while I actually do think that toys can be infantile, I was in fact referring to their buyers/leasers/owners as being immature/infantile.
 
MrPhantomMan said:
You know that feeling when you're down to the last digestive biscuit and your cuppa tea is getting cold? That's exactly how I've been feeling about my current car lately. After writing about automobiles for fifteen years, you'd think choosing my next vehicle would be as easy as ordering fish and chips. But here I am, spending more time researching cars than the Queen spends waving at crowds. The other day, while dunking my third chocolate hobnob, I stumbled upon https://carplus.co.uk/ and spent hours scrolling through options like a teenager on social media. Being a proper Brit, I've always fancied something sensible yet stylish - perhaps a nice estate car that can handle both my weekly shop and weekend getaways to the Cotswolds. My current motor's making more noise than a brass band in a telephone box, so it's definitely time for a change. After all these years testing everything from tiny city runners to posh luxury saloons, I'm leaning towards a nice hybrid - something that won't cost me an arm and a leg at the petrol station. Rather exciting times ahead, wouldn't you say? Cheerio for now, must dash - the kettle's boiling!
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And almost always the specs he announces are fake. To announce a car with 800km range and to make it are 2 different things.
 
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Stats are bad and the market is noticing:

Despite price cuts in the fourth quarter, Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) managed to deliver only around 15,000 Cybertrucks during the period and an estimated 35,000 to 40,000 units for the year, a far cry from Tesla’s initial claim of 2 million orders for the vehicle. According to Bernstein analysts, this underperformance raises questions about whether the Cybertruck is “a bust.”
The analysts believe that the Cybertruck is not gross margin positive “and we struggle to see what the future for the product is, given flagging profitability and niche demand,” they said.
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www.investing.com

Tesla stock: Wall Street analyst says Cybertruck is 'a bust' By Investing.com

Tesla stock: Wall Street analyst says Cybertruck is 'a bust'
www.investing.com
 
Hi,
It's stuff like this that make me kind of wonder a bit about the long term viability for Tesla as a car manufacturer. When you look at their current lineup, and what appears to be in their near term slateofitems in devlopment, they seem to potentially be in a bad spot.

Their Model S, X and even the 3 are no longer new, and their Cyber Cab could potentially be up to10 years away and still feels like a niche market, having only two seats. Similarly their potential upcoming Roadster also feels like a likely niche item for the same reasons.

It really has begun to seem to me that they may have spent too much effort on the Cyber Truck in what may end up being only a niche market and not enough time and effort trying to mature their existing technology into something that can be applied to more affordable vehicles.

To me, as a complete novice and second guesser, I can't help but wonder how they intend to deal with the potential market share shrinkage and sales losses from not having something like a new 4door simple conventional sedanhatchback in a $20,000 to $35,000 range to compete against other companies offerings in the next 10years.

Perhaps it can be attributed to Elon Musk's disdain for focus groups which seems to have led the company to focus more on what they think people should want rather than trying to talk to prospective buyers to see what they really might want or need o_O
 

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