T-14 Armata - new gen Russian tank

quinn whitsitt said:
than its only purpose is as propaganda like the armata cant you see general dynamics wants money so they used the tank as a bragging sorta so they can get more buyers.
Click to expand...
The concept of a technology demonstrator is totally different than a "Propaganda" tank as you seem to imply.
 
Anduriel said:
Because it provides little that T-90M already in mass serial production does not. Both vulnerable to FPV and precision artillery.
Click to expand...

Armata should have better softkill measures and smoke screen generation.
 
Firefinder said:
And we only know for sure that 3 work and thats by the Victory Parade last Year.
Click to expand...
We only saw a dozen Tigrs in last years Victory Parade, this does not mean Russia only has a dozen Tigrs working.
Which had one of them breaking down at the time.
Click to expand...
Parking brake issue, they tried to tow it and it wouldn't move, and a few minutes later it started moving again which doesn't typically happen if your engine breaks down.
Firefinder said:
The tank was never made in numbers with it failing to met every production start since 2016 til now. Like that 1500 order was to start by 2017, and it got pushed back every year til it gotten cancel.
Click to expand...
It's not canceled.
Firefinder said:
The engine sounds sick as hell. There was something fundamentally wrong with that engine that likely what killed it.
Click to expand...
I've heard claims about the reliability being a bit mixed but I've yet to hear a single thing about the engine being so flawed that they've have to cancel the tank over it.
 
I'm not going to exclude the possibility that they are having some rather typical reliability troubles with the new engine but the idea that it's fundamentally flawed seems a bit far-fetched to me. Considering the long lineage of MBT prototypes prior to the T-14 I don't see how they'd have ended up selecting an engine that simply will not work right.

The fact that the T-14 is somewhat heavier than prior Russian MBTs and the advanced electronics does mean that Russian logistics will have to adjust and that probably poses a major challenge given the wartime situation. I do believe the program has been de-emphasized and considering events that is probably a reasonable choice, but I do not believe it has been cancelled despite the claims that it has, claims which seem to occur multiple times a year now.

Even if trials were to find deficiencies requiring major redesign, I think it would be unlikely for Russia to cancel it and start with a new prototype simply because of the pride/propaganda/reputation factor that has become attached to the T-14 and the other AFVs in its family.
 
The Armata family of vehicles concept actually built vehicles that other countries (including US) left on paper because of cost and complexity.
If Rissia gets even a few units equipped with them it is an achievement (just as one has to acknowledge German equipment at the end of WW2 which broke new ground).
 
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q6RZ9l_Fw4U


Saw this video again recently from sturgeonhouse. Some russian guy filmed one of their parades with a thermal imager. At around 3:25 in the video there is imo something strange. Note the uniform thermal emission of the ERA on the glacis plate and on the forward side skirts. What is up with that guys?
 
uk 75 said:
The Armata family of vehicles concept actually built vehicles that other countries (including US) left on paper because of cost and complexity.
If Rissia gets even a few units equipped with them it is an achievement (just as one has to acknowledge German equipment at the end of WW2 which broke new ground).
Click to expand...
I think the primary problem in the US has been due to the constantly shifting political environment leading to an ever changing analysis of what the Army wants/should have. Even when most of the developmental work has been completed on some programs they've been cancelled in favor of some new grand vision that ultimately gets cancelled later. It seems to be some miserable cycle. The Russians seem more determined to see some of their programs through although the challenges these programs face due to the economic, political, and military situation keep piling up.
 
My two cents on this is that the Ukraine war will trigger a rethink for all world powers on what a tank is and what will be its role on the battlefield of the future. The Armata was designed with a view of the future in mind that has been proven outdated. I'd say even if they were to fix it, and get the production lines running, that doesn't bode well for its future.
 
A key aspect of Armata seems to be the integrated crew compartment seperate from the weapon system.

That does seem sensible in terms of weight reduction and crew protection and is something the next gen tank is likely to have.

The west seems more leery of fully automated turrets, the US walked away from MGS for the manned M-10, although less so at autocannon level.

As for armour, defence against IEDs and handheld threats imposes a need for it, albeit not to defeat incoming 120mm perhaps, and active defence if reliable is lighter although needs ammo and complicates close work with dismounts.

Issues with Armata seem more likely to be electronics given Russia is a backwater wrt producing these, and software integration of modern complex systems which the Russians have never really done before (they have shed loads of systems, but not integrated). I’m sure they’d use it they could, embarassament at losing it would be trivial given the embarassment so far!
 
Purpletrouble said:
The west seems more leery of fully automated turrets, the US walked away from MGS for the manned M-10, although less so at autocannon level.
Click to expand...
M8 was just too freaking small inside with all the new stuff that had to be added.

While as I understand it, M10 is using the old 105mm Abrams turrets, so lots more room inside for the extra stuff added.
 
While I seriously doubt that it ever goes into mass production owing to cost, the kinds of technology & software that have been developed for The Armata, as is also the case with The T-90, are great ideas, it's just that Russia uses them incorrectly, so the ultimate result might be that The T-14 becomes a kind of "rolling laboratory" instead of an actual new line of tanks, so not a total loss, but also not the result for which they were looking, either.

Additionally, the sheer amount of equipment that they have captured in this conflict can arguably be useful in many applications down the road, even from systems that are considered by most to be old & outdated, like The Leopard I. Put that engine in The T-72 & T-90M, for example, & suddenly those are much better tanks, although fixing/saving The T-72 would also require the installation of a second thermal sight for the commander & the turret from this upgrade that no one wanted, for some reason, as it adds bustle ammunition stowage like the arrangement on The T-90M, iirc, thereby noticeably increasing crew safety.

1736997322674.png

Also, who or what in God's name is (a) "Lazer Pig"?
 
Joint Soviet Fighter said:
Also, who or what in God's name is (a) "Lazer Pig"?
Click to expand...

An entertaining ex UK Army chap with some very strong (and quite often questionable) opinions wich happens to do videos on military history and hardware in Youtube.
The video that the chap made about the T-14 is... something.
Quite "entertaining", but... if you want actual information try Nicholas Moran instead.
 
Sintra said:
An entertaining ex UK Army chap with some very strong (and quite often questionable) opinions wich happens to do videos on military history and hardware in Youtube.
The video that the chap made about the T-14 is... something.
Quite "entertaining", but... if you want actual information try Nicholas Moran instead.
Click to expand...

Talk about bizarre, & The Chieftain is okay, I guess, but I enjoy David Willey much more, even though he's now retired. I must admit that I don't watch many such videos dedicated to tanks, however, as I'm perfectly fine with just reading about them.

As for The Armata, it's pretty much like every other military project in Russia since 1991 in that the primary problem is money. Personally, I happen to think that The Black Eagle is/was the better design, but you can still see the overall concept/philosophy behind The T-14, it's just that the idea that any country is going to put AESA radars in tanks seems insane from a financial perspective even if you can make them, as Russia is only now starting to do with The Su-57, but that's an entirely different matter, not to mention that Afghanit & the new version of Arena still don't offer protection from top-attack atgms, although the smoke grenades on The Armata might actually be able to offer protection both via "hard" & "soft" measures against various atgms if you do some digging. I think.

That said, even if you have Trophy, etc., those systems still only work when the tank is running, so if you've decided to stop for the night & someone finds your position via a drone, or whatever, & they have a Javelin, Spike, or another equivalent, then you're fresh out of luck. It's definitely possible to provide protection against The NLAW & TOW-2B, however, with stuff that you can buy at Home Depot & Walmart, believe it or not, so there are affordable solutions. Case in point - drones. The kinds of portable electronic warfare systems that Russia has developed for their armored vehicles are quite impressive, but between fpv drones with fiber optic cables & now those that utilize frequency hopping, iirc, there will invariably be some that still manage to get through, hence as to why it's amazing to me that they haven't tried interfacing the detection/elint equipment from said electronic warfare systems with Luna infrared spotlights. I know that this probably sounds crazy, but even the ones on The T-62 could identify a tank at 850 meters, except that in this particular scenario, instead of jamming the drone, you simply overload its optical sensors & render it blind with ye olde Soviet tech, & we all know that they made an insane amount of those things.

Granted, I have no idea if that would actually work, but I'd love to find out.
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom