Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II [2012-current]

[snne]

On the one hand an "article", on the other objective numbers. Take your pick.

You can't blame people for not believing the Telegraph.

Also, anti-Russia propaganda has been performing just as notoriously bad as pro-Russia propaganda ever since the war began.

But the truth always lies somewhere in the middle... (Which is, yes the sanctions do hurt Russia but they have their ways of circumventing them without causing too much issue.)

 

[Elysium]

Why is Western journalism in a such a sorry state? I don't think the Telegraph is a bottom shelf paper. What I would expect from a Western miltary journalist is: A. Have some degree of specialist knowledge, B: At least link to the sources.
However, what we got from Mr. David Axe's telegraph article, is that, not only does he not possess the skills and decency, he also does not have basic reading comprehension.
Here's the link to the Twitter post, made by Ukrainian analysts.

To compare and contrast:
In the article, it is claimed that the MPPU-50 is a German made radioelectronics device used for calibrating the Su-57, containing the WA-36 attenuator and PLR7 and EA-PS 3150 foreign made power supplies.
In the report, it is said that the MPPU-50 is Russian-made device using the aforementioned components, that is used onboard the aircraft (apparently as a part of the radar transponders). The German thing with the calibration equipment appears as Siemens was supposed to supply some lathes used in the manufacturing of calibration equipment.

To reiterate: Not only Mr. Axe didn't do any journalism on his own, he FAILED TO UNDERSTAND the 3 paragraph long twitter summary of the long Ukrainian report.

No, I do not support or condone Russia's actions on Ukraine, but I still entertain the delusion that journalists need to report the facts as they are and not produce sloppy propaganda to the audience.

"The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers." — Thomas Jefferson

 

[Mr.T]

Honestly I also don't understand the component sanctions argument - Imagine the entire Su-57 production run will consist of 2000 planes - an optimistic estimate. Let's say each plane needs 5 pieces of a particular microprocessor, and you buy 3x as much - that's still just 15k units, something that wouldn't even register on the scale on which typical consumer electronics like car ECUs or smartphones are made.
These stockpiles need to exist anyway - I seem to recall a story where LM found out some of the chips that go into the F-22 simply aren't made anymore, and they ended up buying some used telco equipment and had to scavenge the chips from there.
My primary concern would be someone inflitrating the supply chain, and Russian equipment getting pager'd.

Hit the nail on the head , whole year's consumption of chips for Russian arms industry probably fits on one pallet that can be sourced via 3rd or 5th parties ,if not made domesticaly, quantity that would hardly register ,there are not latest or greates in chip technology , many same chips and other electronic components are dual use used in making, production automation, CNC machines etc so on an industrial scale

Its just that propaganda puff pieces that seem mandatory posts in every MSM. Sanctions backfiring and hurting Europe particularly German economy, make reporting any eve tiniest success of sanctions mandatory.
Its quite bizarre how the agitprop machine needs to print at least a couple of articles per day Putin this Putin that , Russia this Russia that. The same goes for smearing Trump , Trump this Trump that .........

Sanctions have definitely taken them back a couple of years mostly on Civilian aircraft ,but at same time forcing domestic alternatives to be developed and manufactured , while NAFO idiots like to boast this and that better ,stronger , one glaring omission is only US is actually building Stealth fighters whole supply chains are globaly interwoven ,neither turkey ,sweden ,Korea,Japan can make even 4th gen without US say so on engines ,electronics and weapons. Rest of western world is stuck on stuff they built some time in the 80-90's and they make tiny quantities ,Gripen,Rafale,Typhon that are often not even all operational,Germany Europes largest economy for example can field maybe a 4 dozen of its EF-2000 rest are missing bits and some have even been used as spares donors , some of the OEMs that made critical parts ceased to exist.


Given war time priority , for strike aircraft, Su-57 might not be no.1 on the list, it seems SU-34 is the one they are manufacturing the most .
As for the thing holding it back the program, its the new gen engine not being ready or produced in quantity vs any electronics issues. Same goes for a host of other programs that either used Ukrainian or Western engines and/or engine parts.

But end of the day Russia defense budget is typically smaller than the budget for CIA , so no point comparing to US

just to illustrate Euro production when there are actualy any orders at all ,Typhoon is manufactured at a rate of 10 per year ,Rafale is at 12per year and Gripen is not made in much higher numbers either.

Germany's Scholz says 20 more Eurofighters to be ordered - Breaking Defense

Michael Schoellhorn, CEO of Airbus, told reporters the news was "very encouraging for the industry" and the company would "ensure continuity in the production of the Typhoon" until a sixth-gen fighter is ready to fly.

breakingdefense.com

 

[flateric]

The infochain

Thread by @Tatarigami_UA on Thread Reader App

@Tatarigami_UA: After reviewing an internal correspondence leak from a Russian military electronics plant "Mikropribor", Frontelligence Insight, with data provided by @CyberResUa discovered that the production of th...…

threadreaderapp.com

Secret purchases of German equipment for the Su-57 production

Russian companies are finding ways to access Western high-tech equipment, circumventing the restrictions put in place following the conflict in Ukraine.

bulgarianmilitary.com

Russia's Su-57 Felon Stealth Fighter Program Has Been 'Crippled'

Western sanctions have severely hampered Russia’s ability to produce the Su-57 fifth-generation fighter, complicating the acquisition of critical high-tech components. Russia, however, has circumvented some of these challenges by obtaining dual-use goods, such as the Siemens KLE 360 CNC, which...

nationalinterest.org

Bad news for Putin: Su-57 ‘Felon’ 5G stealth fighter production is all but crippled

Putin’s air force still has only a handful of fifth generation planes

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Deino]

On the one hand an "article", on the other objective numbers. Take your pick.

Care to explain? Do we have "objective numbers"? ... and yes, neither David Axe nor NOELREPORTS are truly credible "sources" on Russia's aviation news, however I rate Guy Plopsky quite credible and he lists

1 in 2020
8 in 2022
8-12 in 2023 (11 reportedly)
12 are scheduled to be delivered this year, but so far only one delivery this year is known (2-4 aircraft).

 

[NovaGA]

12 are scheduled to be delivered this year, but so far only one delivery this year is known (2-4 aircraft).

I disagree.
It is quite clear that 3 were delivered this September.
Sources:
1. https://t.me/uac_ru/2638 (3 visible)
2. https://t.me/fighter_bomber/18021 (3 visible)

 

[Elysium]

Its just that propaganda puff pieces that seem mandatory posts in every MSM.

So much this. Journalists' laziness, ignorance and the idea that they're 'doing their part' by exaggerating Ukrainian successes and Russian failures, and writing fact-free puff pieces, that can be mostly described as 'not even wrong'. This just makes me trust the media even less, well, because, they're not trustworthy. There seem seems to be this arrogant sense of superiority among journos, that us common folk can't handle the truth, and aren't allowed to form our own opinions in case they happen to be wrong. Which is kinda ironic, as they're usually not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

 

[Forest Green]

Care to explain? Do we have "objective numbers"? ... and yes, neither David Axe nor NOELREPORTS are truly credible "sources" on Russia's aviation news, however I rate Guy Plopsky quite credible and he lists

1 in 2020
8 in 2022
8-12 in 2023 (11 reportedly)
12 are scheduled to be delivered this year, but so far only one delivery this year is known (2-4 aircraft).

It all depends what the numbers were supposed to be without sanctions and without the 6.2% defence budget.

 

[Ainen]

It all depends what the numbers were supposed to be without sanctions and without the 6.2% defence budget.

Pre-war numbers are +1 year from known deliveries. I.e. production ramp up has been consistently faster than planned.

 

[NovaGA]

It all depends what the numbers were supposed to be without sanctions and without the 6.2% defence budget.

Original production plan was:
2019 - 1 unit
2020 - 1 unit
2021 - 4 units
2022 - 4 units
2023 - 7 units
2024 - 12 units

Current production record:
2019 - 1(lost)
2020 - 1
2021 - 3
2022 - 6
2023 - 11/12

or

2019 - 1(lost)
2020 - 1
2021 + 2022 - 8
2023 - 11/12

Both result in 20-22 units being present at the beginning of 2024.
By the original plan only 18 would be produced.
So the are going ahead of schedule.

 

[F-14ATomcat]

Original production plan was:
2019 - 1 unit
2020 - 1 unit
2021 - 4 units
2022 - 4 units
2023 - 7 units
2024 - 12 units

Current production record:
2019 - 1(lost)
2020 - 1
2021 - 3
2022 - 6
2023 - 11/12

or

2019 - 1(lost)
2020 - 1
2021 + 2022 - 8
2023 - 11/12

Both result in 20-22 units being present at the beginning of 2024.
By the original plan only 18 would be produced.
So the are going ahead of schedule.

the numbers are to be taken with care official sources are the best, although they could be propaganda, those are the most reliable numbers, Russia is in a war situation Russians know any leak of information without official approval is treason, so do not expect Russian plane watchers to just give information. jail for traitors is a fact.

Official sources and the released pictures pictures are the only reliable sources now.

The other crap that the Russians can or can not is propaganda, in the war situation Russia is now is almost impossible to know the real state of Russian aviation because of the censorship, a lot of propaganda, a lot of trash of information.

 

[Deino]

Original production plan was:
2019 - 1 unit
2020 - 1 unit
2021 - 4 units
2022 - 4 units
2023 - 7 units
2024 - 12 units

Current production record:
2019 - 1(lost)
2020 - 1
2021 - 3
2022 - 6
2023 - 11/12

or

2019 - 1(lost)
2020 - 1
2021 + 2022 - 8
2023 - 11/12

Both result in 20-22 units being present at the beginning of 2024.
By the original plan only 18 would be produced.
So the are going ahead of schedule.

May I ask what’s the source for these numbers?

 

[Life of Tyo]

maybe i can remaind su-57 serial from 2020-2024

Su-57 01 ( original second for replace Su-57 first crash on 2019)
date Desember 2020

 

[Life of Tyo]

2 Su-57 on February 2022 ( third and foruth production)

 

[Life of Tyo]

2 su-57 on may 2022

 

[Life of Tyo]

4 Su-57 december 2022

 

[paralay]

1) T-50S-1, serial No. 51001, b/n 01, was built in 2019 and broken up in December of the same year.

2) T-50S-2, serial No.51002, b/n 01, built in 2020, delivered to the Ministry of Defense on 01/29/2021.

3) T-50S-3, serial No. 52201, b/n 51, was built in 2021, and presumably commissioned at the end of 2021 or January 2022. He didn't shine in any of the photos, but he was mentioned in this news, which was later quoted on forums.

4) T-50S-4, serial No. 52202, b/n 52, built in 2021, handed over to the Ministry of Defense also presumably at the end of 2021 or January 2022. He appeared once in a video from KnAAZ.

5) T-50S-5, serial No. 52303, b/n 02, reg. number was not applied, built in 2021, commissioned in January 2022. There are photos on 02/03/2022 in Tolmachevo.

6) T-50S-6, series No.52304, b/n 52, reg. RF-81775, built in 2021, commissioned in January 2022. There are photos on 02/03/2022 in Tolmachevo.

7) T-50S-7, series No.52405, b/n 53, reg. RF-81777, built in 2022. There are photos on 05/27/2022 in Tolmachevo.

8) T-50S-8, series No.52406?, b/n 54, reg. No. RF-81778, built in 2022. There are photos on 05/27/2022 in Tolmachevo.

9) T-50S-9, series No.52507

There is no information on other aircraft

 

[Life of Tyo]

3 su-57 on Knazz may 2023

VK.com | VK

vk.com

 

[TMA1]

One thing to note. Some of the equipment listed as vital for su-57 production are readily accessible to anyone, and are not super sophisticated. It is essentially lab equipment that Russians could just get from whatever their version of aliexpress is.

 

[NovaGA]

Su-57 with Kh-59M2A
Source: https://t.me/fighter_bomber/18506

 

[Avimimus]

Photoshop?

 

[stealthflanker]

Can't say but external carriage for Kh-59 is likely.

 

[paralay]

Fighterbomber

Су-57 с тактическими Х-59М2А, или там А500, кто там их уже сортирует по моделям, летит жарить бекон. Кстати Х-59, в любой модификации, могут иметь СБЧ. Ну, тщ, хохлы, это вам для информации. О, в рифму сказал. )

t.me