Sukhoi Su-35 multi-role fighter

Ronny said:
It would seem that since the signature characteristic of Russian Su-35 and Ukraine Su-27 are pretty much the same, the chance of friendly fire is a lot higher?
Click to expand...
Certainly a component of the problem, but a country as advanced as Russia should have a functioning command and control system that precludes this sort of issue. In fairness what we will likely not ever know is if the Ukrainian Air Force was active close enough to create a dilemma. Was electronic warfare activity on going at the time of the event? The only thing for sure is that Rusia has one less fighter, and trained pilot.
 
Ronny said:
It would seem that since the signature characteristic of Russian Su-35 and Ukraine Su-27 are pretty much the same, the chance of friendly fire is a lot higher?
Click to expand...

The radar signature should be different for different types of flankers. Didn't they claim that the Su-35 has a much smaller rcs than legacy flankers?
 
siegecrossbow said:
The radar signature should be different for different types of flankers. Didn't they claim that the Su-35 has a much smaller rcs than legacy flankers?
Click to expand...
It's smaller. Particularly from the front aspect from some RAM coatings and other treatments but depending on the detection and engagement profile and with what system it would be immaterial.
 
yasotay said:
Certainly a component of the problem, but a country as advanced as Russia should have a functioning command and control system that precludes this sort of issue. In fairness what we will likely not ever know is if the Ukrainian Air Force was active close enough to create a dilemma. Was electronic warfare activity on going at the time of the event? The only thing for sure is that Rusia has one less fighter, and trained pilot.
Click to expand...
It has been noted even before the war that the VKS and Air Defence forces have great difficulty working together. They may theoretically and technically have the means to operate together and de-conflict but operationally they have struggled in exercises.

In a real shooting war it would be fair to assume it would be immeasurably worse with the fog of war.
 
The official statement. The Russian jet had a faulty IFF transponder.
But still, you are not supposed to accidently fire at unknown contact. It doesn't work that way. There are several check boxes that must be approved.
Like what kind of jets are we currently opperating, where is its flight plan, are there more jets, like a two or four wing operating.
Command & Control issue for sure.
 
IFF relies on a transponder in the target replying correctly to an interrogation signal. If the IFF transponder is faulty, you will get no reply. This is generally as good is it gets with IFF. You don't know if its hostile or just has an issue with its transponder.

NCTR is capability of directly identifying a target without IFF, for instance from its radar return. One of the first such systems detected engine fan blade modulation, which made it vaguely okay for a fighter radar (high threats are often head-on where you can see their engine front faces) but pretty useless for a SAM system.

Generally such capabilities are very closely guarded secrets. Patriot only added NCTR recently with CONFIG 3+/PDB8, which came after a full modern digital overhaul of the system. So if any Russian SAMs have it, it's likely limited to the latest S-400s etc, Even then, telling a Russian Su-35 from a Ukrainian Su-27 using NCTR wouldn't be that easy.
 
Last edited:
haavarla said:
Command & Control issue for sure.
Click to expand...

This is more likely. Maybe PVO and VKS just dont talk together or they did but yes faulty IFF's. Regarding unknown contact tho, i think the AD commander is under pressure that respond from command is too long while the contact may approach sensitive area, decision is then have to be made.


------
NCTR tho especially those relies on JEM (Jet Engine Modulation) is not all that good, not only because aspect angle but also that one needs to be able to physically detect the blade and, jet engine blade have relatively small RCS.

The other option would be ISAR which to image target but i am not sure if SAM engagement Radar can have such mode, particularly it also take time to "construct" the imagery.
 
stealthflanker said:
This is more likely. Maybe PVO and VKS just dont talk together or they did but yes faulty IFF's. Regarding unknown contact tho, i think the AD commander is under pressure that respond from command is too long while the contact may approach sensitive area, decision is then have to be made.


------
NCTR tho especially those relies on JEM (Jet Engine Modulation) is not all that good, not only because aspect angle but also that one needs to be able to physically detect the blade and, jet engine blade have relatively small RCS.

The other option would be ISAR which to image target but i am not sure if SAM engagement Radar can have such mode, particularly it also take time to "construct" the imagery.
Click to expand...
ISAR is tricky. As already said, Try spot the difference between Su-27 and Su-35 from a distance.
Don't think they should worry about Ukrainian Su-27. There is like 2-4 in their inventory at this stage anyway.
 
It seems that the sale of Su-35s to Iran is now a done deal.
In addition, the Russians have agreed to sell R-37s for use with the Su-35.
www.key.aero

Iran agrees to buy Su-35SEs and Mi-28NMEs from Russia

In a dramatic announcement on November 28, the Iranian Defense Minister, Brig Gen Mohammad Reza Gharaei Ashtiani, said the agreement between Iran and Russia over the procurement of Su-35SE Flanker-E multi-role fighters for the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force was back on, but added that the...
www.key.aero www.key.aero
 
They will get the export 200km range variant without awacs connectivity and other features. That is very powerful. Essentially they are getting the air superiority fighter with strong interceptor characteristics which they had with the venerable f-14 but for the current gen (or close enough).
 
Does anyone know the precise nomenclature and the maker of the Su-35S comm radios?
 
Russia seems to still have the generational knowledge and abilities technologically in their MIC to develop these complex missile systems. I was trying to read about the kinds of complex software developed for these things and it is incredible. Each nation's MIC has hardware and software tricks of the trade that is sheer wizardry to a guy like me.
 
It's a good thing R-37 and R-77 become normal sight now. At least final nail in coffin for people arguing that Russians wants to dogfight.

Despite clear characteristics of Sukhoi flankers, i still see many still argue Russians will use it for dogfighting. No. The Reason they can carry more R-27 than R-73 is that it can throw some free BVR shot first before either escaping or relies on HMS
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom