sublight said:
The trouble, of course, is separating them from the nutballs who make exactly the same claims and produce exactly the same (non)evidence.
If it quacks like a nutball and claims like a nutball... chances are, it's a nutball.
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The trouble, of course, is separating them from the nutballs who make exactly the same claims and produce exactly the same (non)evidence.
If it quacks like a nutball and claims like a nutball... chances are, it's a nutball.
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Just painting something black is not the answer. The night sky is not a true black. It may be the closest it will get to black if you are looking at it from a boat in the middle of an ocean but even there if a large black (truly black) object were to pass overhead while you were watching you'd likely notice it. It doesn't have to be a true black. Take a walk into the woods at night and look at the night sky through the overhead branches. That's not to say that an F-16 or even a Boeing 747 passing over at altitude (with their navigation lights off) would be easy to notice, but if you knew where to look - or just got lucky - you just might see it.
With high humidity and the Moon somewhere in view, the night sky tends to look a very deep (and low value) greenish blue. With low humidity and moonlight the color tends to be a very deep (low value) blue. Even without the Moon the sky would be more of a deep (low value) bluish gray. A lot of this is due to the scatter of light through the particles in the air. Light from a city a hundred miles away could be part of the scatter over you. Then, of course, you have the light from the stars and the milkyway. On several occasions I have gone way out (100 miles or so - I like to hear them as well as see them) into the country to observe meteor showers. I can tell you that at 02:00:00, with no moon, I was able to get a pretty good reading of the lay of the land around me. On one occasion I was able to see other people who were some distance away in another field.
True, most people don't pay attention to the sky but among the civilians you have the aviation buffs and the UFO believers and in the military you may have any number of people who have some reason to be watching the sky. A large black (or even dark blue) object passing over is bound to eventually get noticed.
This is just my thought - and I wonder if any studies on this have been discussed - that the answer is not just paint or paint and light. The answer - to me - seems to be a blend of color, value and reflectivity. Figure a way to make the surface reflect that scattered light.
With high humidity and the Moon somewhere in view, the night sky tends to look a very deep (and low value) greenish blue. With low humidity and moonlight the color tends to be a very deep (low value) blue. Even without the Moon the sky would be more of a deep (low value) bluish gray. A lot of this is due to the scatter of light through the particles in the air. Light from a city a hundred miles away could be part of the scatter over you. Then, of course, you have the light from the stars and the milkyway. On several occasions I have gone way out (100 miles or so - I like to hear them as well as see them) into the country to observe meteor showers. I can tell you that at 02:00:00, with no moon, I was able to get a pretty good reading of the lay of the land around me. On one occasion I was able to see other people who were some distance away in another field.
True, most people don't pay attention to the sky but among the civilians you have the aviation buffs and the UFO believers and in the military you may have any number of people who have some reason to be watching the sky. A large black (or even dark blue) object passing over is bound to eventually get noticed.
This is just my thought - and I wonder if any studies on this have been discussed - that the answer is not just paint or paint and light. The answer - to me - seems to be a blend of color, value and reflectivity. Figure a way to make the surface reflect that scattered light.
S
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edwest said:
That's all covered here:
http://www.thestealthblimp.com/
Stuka
Klaatu barada nikto
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A more likely explanation for silent triangle sightings. http://www.space.com/sciencefiction/phenomena/triangle_ufo_noss_000114.html
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seruriermarshal
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Stuka said:
that's ps ?
S
sublight
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Satellites would certainly be a good explanation if this guy didn't exist....
sublight said:
sublight said:
And what does his existence have to do with it?
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He worked on some concepts for a lighter than air surveillance craft. Clearly, this proves the existence of such a craft in service and its relation to UFO sightings. :
Its a well known fact that every concept ever studied is in fact secretly built at Area 51 by a team of alien engineers. Do keep up, Scott.
Its a well known fact that every concept ever studied is in fact secretly built at Area 51 by a team of alien engineers. Do keep up, Scott.
overscan said:
Well... the Nazi flying saucers were built in Antarctica. Only someone who is part of the Illuminati Conspiracy wopuld claim otherwise.
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The Artist said:
Yes they have. And the best night camouflage colour is grey! But unfortunately black has a psychological romantic edge so some night aircraft are repainted black even though they would be much harder to see in all night conditions painted grey.
But back in the real world it is interesting to notice that no amount of black or grey paint made the Zeppelins invisible in their night strikes against Great Britain in WWI. The size of a blimp is always going to create a very large edge between it and the rest of the sky and its cylinder shape means you can’t counter shade the edges like a flat aircraft shape (because the edge will always be changing based on the geometric relationship between observer and target). The best way to be hard to see in the sky is to be very blended (or apparently so thanks to camouflage), very small and very far away.
edwest said:
You only think that because the Zeta Reticulans in the BRIGHTLY LIT super-sekrit undetectable stealth blimps are beaming bozo rays into your head to make you think that.
Quick! To the aluminum foil!
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edwest said:
Not sure if this was directed at me or Scott but...
I merely questioned the logic of a chain of thought connecting the fact that someone worked on a *concept* being proof of the existence of that concept in reality. As clearly, not all concepts lead to production hardware, otherwise this site wouldn't exist.
edwest said:
What euphemism for "pure bullshit" would make you more comfortable?
S
sublight
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Scott, that really is outrageous and uncalled for....Orionblamblam said:
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We can combine this thread and the other about Facebook with:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pure-bullshit/111864435500033
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pure-bullshit/111864435500033
sublight said:
Why? Do we need to step up to the molybdenum foil now?
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Orionblamblam said:
Scott, really....you of all people should know that tungsten foil is the only effective counter to the Zeta Reticulan bozo rays :
Regards & all,
Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg
PS: Ahem.....back to topic. Promise!
Where'd the tin foil come from? :
Recent sighting (last week) near Donaldson Centre:
http://mufoncms.com/cgi-bin/manage_sighting_reports.pl?mode=view_long_desc&id=25316&rnd=858171283848163
"A very Large, flat black, triangular aircraft with 3 constant orange/yellow lights on each point and 1 strobing red light in the center of the under-side. Object was traveling very slowly"
Obviously this guy is receiving mind rays too and therefore should be open to abuse? I'm sure it's a massive coincidence that Lockheed are the main suspect when it comes to HAPP and HI-SPOT follow-ons?
I get that large lights on each tip aren't exactly the best way to remain hidden but how many more sightings exactly like the above do we need before we can admit there might be something up there resembling the Belgian photo? Even the truncated tips come up again and again.
Recent sighting (last week) near Donaldson Centre:
http://mufoncms.com/cgi-bin/manage_sighting_reports.pl?mode=view_long_desc&id=25316&rnd=858171283848163
"A very Large, flat black, triangular aircraft with 3 constant orange/yellow lights on each point and 1 strobing red light in the center of the under-side. Object was traveling very slowly"
Obviously this guy is receiving mind rays too and therefore should be open to abuse? I'm sure it's a massive coincidence that Lockheed are the main suspect when it comes to HAPP and HI-SPOT follow-ons?
I get that large lights on each tip aren't exactly the best way to remain hidden but how many more sightings exactly like the above do we need before we can admit there might be something up there resembling the Belgian photo? Even the truncated tips come up again and again.
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Well that proves it!
I don't see how one can apply the term "exactly" to something that is dark and mysterious. I can walk outside and night time and see lots of things that fit a similar vague and ambiguous description. Doesn’t mean they are all “exactly” the same.
Gridlock said:
I don't see how one can apply the term "exactly" to something that is dark and mysterious. I can walk outside and night time and see lots of things that fit a similar vague and ambiguous description. Doesn’t mean they are all “exactly” the same.
Abraham Gubler said:
Well I'll just have to accept that I'm one of the few people who doesn't see large, silent, ponderous black deltas with blurry orange lights on each corner and a red strobe at the centre every time I go outside then... I mean, it's such a vague and ambiguous thing to be seen all over the world for the last 20 years or so that you're right, there must just be collection of naturally occurring phenomena that all resemble this.
Meh, obviously no interest in stitching together whatever this black program is here so fair enough, keep up the ridicule!
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Actually I meant I see things that are vague and ambiguous not the triangular stealth blimp. By that I meant trees and bushes and the like that in the dark look like black blobs and so on. The point being that in low light conditions everything looks vague and ambiguous.
Apart from the use of the term ‘meh’ (indifference being a sub-human state) this is your problem here. You assume that this is a black program.
Gridlock said:
Apart from the use of the term ‘meh’ (indifference being a sub-human state) this is your problem here. You assume that this is a black program.
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I have tried not to indulge in the polemics and will continue to do so. However, let it be said that I strongly suspect a few members of this forum know A LOT more than most of us on a certain number of secret projects, and will do everything they can to negate, ridicule or discard the slightest element that could lead us closer to whatever's there. The fact that an old program like Quiet Bird was well known by a few is a probable indication of that.
Abraham Gubler said:
But the other 2 options are literally "white program" or "aliens did it", surely? It's not a white program (unless I missed a press release) so are you blaming the lizard people?
Or do you mean that there is no program, that the sightings are all bogus and that folklore has more to explain than Boeing?
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Stargazer2006 said:
There are doubtless members who have information on classified projects they can't share. But if you are insinuating a number of users practice deliberate misinformation, I would venture to suggest that is conspiracy theory nonsense.
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Gridlock said:
How about none of the above? This stealth blimp thing is totally reliant on mesopic vision from casual by-passers. Very much like the sightings of UFOs in the 1950s (ie reflective weather balloons in bright skies by desert randoms). Strangely enough in the rough edges of human vision things are almost seen that aren’t actually what the human brain thinks it is.
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Gridlock said:
Never underestimate the ability of the human brain to see patterns where none exist. If someone sees "something" in the night sky, and has heard of the Mysterious Black Triangle With Lights, then whatever the person has seen quickly becomes just that.
As for groups of people seeing "the same" thing, this principle applies as well. If a group of 10 people see something that no one is sure what is, and suddenly on of them goes "it's that Mysterious Black Triangle With Lights that everyone on the www is talking about.....well surprise, suddenly all 10 people have seen a Mysterious Black Triangle With Lights.
This BTW also explains a lot of ghost sightings. If a visitor to an old, haunted building has heard of The White Lady, the whatever that person sees that can't be readily explained very easily becomes another White Lady sighting.
Having said that, if there is something out there, then it's most probably either a hoax (someone making their own Mysterious Black Triangle With Lights in their basement, and using it to scare people - remember Crop Circles?), or a genuine, technicolor black program.
Regards & all,
Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg
Lauge said:
Indeed. Along with your ghostly "White Lady," there is also the issue of "the aliens." Prior to the 1970's, whenever someone said they were contacted/abducted by aliens, the aliens were described extremely variously, with "hot blonde Nordic chicks" being quite a popular choice. Butnthe Barney & Betty Hill case, where they described sort of the prototypical "Gray" alien, was a tipping point. After they started getting press, the appearance of reported aliens started to change. *Especially* after "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" came out, which used the Hill alien design.
It might seem odd that interstellar travellers would change their appearance to match that dreamed up by folks under hypnosis (a method of "recovering memory" approximately as reliable as tea leaves or Ouiji boards), but that's what seemed to happen. Alternatively... people saw a consistent vision of "aliens" in the popular culture and incorporated that into their fantasies or delusions, and fed that back into the popular culture.
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But then you're working from the hypothesis that there would be just ONE sort of aliens in the universe willing to visit our planet... Not very realistic given the size of the universe, the number of galaxies, solar systems and planets likely to exist and to have reached a similar or greater form of civilization...Orionblamblam said:
Gridlock said:
Other options include:
1) Mass delusion
2) Intentional hoax (as described, a triangular blimp with some internal lighting would pretty well explain the sightings... and would be well within the capability of a well-provisioned frat house)
3) A combo of 1 &2
Stargazer2006 said:
Agreed, "one" is not a terribly likely number for visiting alien species. "Zero" is vastly more likely. Given the vastness of the universe, why would "they" be at all interested in *this* planet, especially at the intense level the vast number of "abductees" would have you believe?
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Stargazer2006 said:
Its pretty safe to say that when we finally meet Aliens they will actually look and act like Aliens, rather than just some psuedo humanoid.
saintkatanalegacy
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some quality education brought to you by the internet B)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKJ6gP5lJY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKJ6gP5lJY
This seems remarkably relevant on the topic of "but a lot of people saw the same thing!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nda_OSWeyn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nda_OSWeyn8
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Orionblamblam said:
I never said that was MY view on the subject, just that in your haste to ridicule pseudo-abductees and UFO lovers, you had overlooked the possibility that two aliens from outer space COULD look different if from a different planet. Of course there is little chance our planet could be of such interest to vastly different forms of alien life from outer space, unless of course 1°) we happen to be right on the pathway of some galactic corridor or highway of some kind or 2°) we are in some way so unique or possess something so incredibly valuable that they'd all want to come and see it for themselves...
A longshot either way...
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