Space-X DRAGON (manned/unmanned) capsule.

WOW.. just... wow.. looked like a beautifully clean burn. Holding my breath for the reentry. beyond the "two to three orbits of the earth" reported at http://satellite.tmcnet.com/topics/satellite/articles/124713-first-space-x-dragon-capsule-makes-it-orbit.htm is there any ETA for re-entry?

(edit) breathing again, congratulations to SpaceX :D
 
Awesome achievement for a private venture.
Is it me seeing things, or was there some kind of fuel spill at umbilical separation and subsequent ignition (or something to that effect)?
Big fireball right next to the rocket as it lifts off...
--Luc
 
Machdiamond said:
Is it me seeing things, or was there some kind of fuel spill at umbilical separation and subsequent ignition (or something to that effect)?
Click to expand...

You're not seeing things! Don't know whether SpaceX just dodged a bullet or if it was relatively benign. I'm sure it'll be an interesting point in the post-mission press conference.
 
the fire ball was on tower in high of second stage umbilical system

i gess there were fuel or Oxygene remains in tubes and ignition as rocket past by
 
Latest tweets:

[quote author=http://mobile.twitter.com/spacexer]
"THREE MAIN PARACHUTES DEPLOYED!!!!

SPLASHDOWN!!!

SpaceX is the first commercial company to reenter a spacecraft from space!
[/quote]

Well done SpaceX, fantastic!
 
Matej said:
Certainly an amateurish question, but what is the purpose of the four towers around the launch pad?
Click to expand...

Lightening conductors.

Further tweets:

[quote author=http://mobile.twitter.com/spacexer]
Splashdown on target. Mission is a success!

Recovery crew has put the floats on the Dragon already.
[/quote]

Wow, not bad for a first outing :D
 
respect to SpaceX

Musk hopes to launch next year final Test Launch
Dragon close to ISS

only bad news from Capitol Hill
they try to cut support for commercial space flight
even canceled COTS/CRS to minimized Spending
i hope this only lout thinking of stupid politicians...

source: online NASA tv Interview mit Eliot Musk were Reporter brought in the info
 
Michel Van said:
respect to SpaceX

Musk hopes to launch next year final Test Launch
Dragon close to ISS

only bad news from Capitol Hill
they try to cut support for commercial space flight
even canceled COTS/CRS to minimized Spending
i hope this only lout thinking of stupid politicians...

source: online NASA tv Interview mit Eliot Musk were Reporter brought in the info
Click to expand...
We CAN hope, but it's been made pretty clear that the incoming Chairman for the committee in charge of NASA is NO fan of Space-X. That's NOT to say he doesn't "favor" commercial development, (after all Orbital has their HQ in his home district ;) ) but he has said that he believes that Space-X is "not-ready" to take on the challenge it's being given.

I'm kinda looking forward to the verbal gymnastics he's going to go through to "show" this success doesn't show Space-X pretty well ahead of the "pack" for commercial operations...

(Hey he's GOT to try at least)
Randy
 
RanulfC said:
Michel Van said:
respect to SpaceX

Musk hopes to launch next year final Test Launch
Dragon close to ISS

only bad news from Capitol Hill
they try to cut support for commercial space flight
even canceled COTS/CRS to minimized Spending
i hope this only lout thinking of stupid politicians...

source: online NASA tv Interview mit Eliot Musk were Reporter brought in the info
Click to expand...
We CAN hope, but it's been made pretty clear that the incoming Chairman for the committee in charge of NASA is NO fan of Space-X. That's NOT to say he doesn't "favor" commercial development, (after all Orbital has their HQ in his home district ;) ) but he has said that he believes that Space-X is "not-ready" to take on the challenge it's being given.

I'm kinda looking forward to the verbal gymnastics he's going to go through to "show" this success doesn't show Space-X pretty well ahead of the "pack" for commercial operations...

(Hey he's GOT to try at least)
Randy
Click to expand...

There's a little more to it than that. The concern expressed by many is not that SpaceX cannot do some things. There is a general impression that they are a boutique operation that can prep one vehicle at a time and will have a difficult time ramping up to a higher pace and more complex operations.
 
Now this is funny. A press conference quote from Flight International: "The Dragon capsule contained only an as-yet unidentified gag payload ("If you like Monty Python, you'll love the secret payload," Musk says)."

I must guess: coconuts, from "Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?".

Other suggestions?

--Luc
 
Machdiamond said:
Now this is funny. A press conference quote from Flight International: "The Dragon capsule contained only an as-yet unidentified gag payload ("If you like Monty Python, you'll love the secret payload," Musk says)."

I must guess: coconuts, from "Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?".

Other suggestions?

--Luc
Click to expand...

a death parrot nailed to instrument board ?

thank to Unwanted blog here new link to Yt Video
[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ci9xIgNZM[/flash]
 
blackstar said:
There is a general impression that they are a boutique operation that can prep one vehicle at a time and will have a difficult time ramping up to a higher pace and more complex operations.
Click to expand...

SpaceX can't run before they can walk. So far their focus has been on vehicle development, not mature multi-flight operations. Clearly, if development continues to progress well that'll change.

What gets me are those (particularly pork-focussed politicians) who implicitly criticise/downplay SpaceX every time they achieve something just because they haven't yet achieved everything.

Of course they may have trouble ramping up, in the same way that successfully launching and returning an orbital capsule is no walk in the park. I'd be surprised if SpaceX haven't already recruited people with experience in ramping up / multi-flight ops.

Update: just found this Elon quote:

[quote author=http://www.space.com/news/elon-musk-spacex-ceo-interview-101208.html]
We now have Falcon 9 and Dragon in steady production at approximately one F9/Dragon every three months. The F9 production rate doubles to one every six weeks in 2012.
[/quote]
 
FutureSpaceTourist said:
blackstar said:
There is a general impression that they are a boutique operation that can prep one vehicle at a time and will have a difficult time ramping up to a higher pace and more complex operations.
Click to expand...

SpaceX can't run before they can walk. So far their focus has been on vehicle development, not mature multi-flight operations. Clearly, if development continues to progress well that'll change.

What gets me are those (particularly pork-focussed politicians) who implicitly criticise/downplay SpaceX every time they achieve something just because they haven't yet achieved everything.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that works both ways. I've seen SpaceX hailed as the saviors who will colonize the solar system. But if you approach the subject from the standpoint of commercial launch (the people who build and operate comsats and buy rockets), SpaceX is promising, but not revolutionary. Even cutting the price of launch in half does not fundamentally change things. So there is exaggeration on both sides. There's an additional aspect. Musk said during the press conference that he has told his investors that he is not maximizing profits. That's viable as long as he is not a publicly traded company. But as soon as he needs more cash and starts selling stock, then he will have a hard time making that claim to the stockholders. What happens then? CEOs who don't chase the highest profits tend to get removed. So there are hurdles to SpaceX expanding. They could end up as an inexpensive launch provider that remains a niche provider.

And I'd suggest not taking Musk's comments as gospel. Several years ago I saw him give a talk where he admitted that many of their early schedule dates proved "optimistic."
 
They might have been better off with some pork.......... ;)


cheers,
Robin.
 
Congratulations to spaceX!

In article on astronomynow's website they mentioned merging two future missions into one, specifically going close to station and docking. Will it be like soyuz/progres/atv docking or will they use robot arm like in the H2TV scenario? Does Dragon have something like KURS?
 
bigvlada said:
Will it be like soyuz/progres/atv docking or will they use robot arm like in the H2TV scenario? Does Dragon have something like KURS?
Click to expand...

I don't believe they'll use the robot arm, SpaceX have something called DragonEye:

[quote author=http://www.spacex.com/updates.php]
DragonEye

With the help of NASA's Commercial Crew and Cargo Program Office, the DragonEye Laser Imaging Detection and Ranging (LIDAR) sensor has already undergone flight system trials in preparation for guiding the Dragon spacecraft as it approaches the International Space Station (ISS).

DragonEye launched aboard the Space Shuttle Endeavour on July 15th, 2009 and tested successfully in proximity of the ISS (photos below). DragonEye provides three-dimensional images based on the amount of time it takes for a single laser pulse from the sensor to the reach a target and bounce back, providing range and bearing information from the Dragon spacecraft to the ISS.
[/quote]

The captions for the three photos are:
  • DragonEye aboard Space Shuttle Endeavour as seen from the International Space Station. Photo courtesy of NASA.
  • Images on right captured by the DragonEye LIDAR system during its recent flight aboard Space Shuttle Endeavour (ISS image courtesy NASA).
  • Image on the right captured by the DragonEye system during its recent flight aboard Space Shuttle Endeavour (ISS Image courtesy NASA).
 

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FutureSpaceTourist said:
bigvlada said:
Will it be like soyuz/progres/atv docking or will they use robot arm like in the H2TV scenario? Does Dragon have something like KURS?
Click to expand...

I don't believe they'll use the robot arm, SpaceX have something called DragonEye:
Click to expand...

Dragon will not dock, it will be berth with the arm like HTV was.
 
Byeman said:
Dragon will not dock, it will be berth with the arm like HTV was.
Click to expand...

The reason I thought Dragon docks is:

[quote author=http://www.spacex.com/dragon.php]
[...]
Fully autonomous rendezvous and docking with manual override capability in crewed configuration
[...]
[/quote]

However, you're correct as the simulation video of it at: http://www.spacex.com/assets/video/dragon_iss_rendezvous.mpg shows the arm being used. Hmm, not sure I'd call that fully autonomous rendezvous and docking!
 
FutureSpaceTourist said:
Byeman said:
Dragon will not dock, it will be berth with the arm like HTV was.
Click to expand...

The reason I thought Dragon docks is:

[quote author=http://www.spacex.com/dragon.php]
[...]
Fully autonomous rendezvous and docking with manual override capability in crewed configuration
[...]
Click to expand...

However, you're correct as the simulation video of it at: http://www.spacex.com/assets/video/dragon_iss_rendezvous.mpg shows the arm being used. Hmm, not sure I'd call that fully autonomous rendezvous and docking!
[/quote]

that is a very old video
it show ISS orginal design and first version of Dragon
it looks that SpaceX is change on autonomous rendezvous and docking
 
Apparently today the recovered Dragon arrived back on the mainland, it was trucked through downtown Long Beach to Hawthorne.
 
There's been some talk that their documents given to NASA about the berthing apporach were pretty close to the Japanese HTV ones. Maybe they just bought everything from there (or got the right people).
 
mz said:
There's been some talk that their documents given to NASA about the berthing apporach were pretty close to the Japanese HTV ones. Maybe they just bought everything from there (or got the right people).
Click to expand...

No, NASA dictates the berthing approach.
 
This SpaceX promotional video includes an animation of a Dragon landing on Mars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p6EruPdoXY

Doug Messier has an interesting snippet of info about it:

[quote author=http://www.parabolicarc.com/2011/05/03/nasa-send-dragon-mars/]
[...]
Chris McKay of NASA made a bit of news.

McKay said that Musk had told him that at every point where SpaceX had to make choices on Dragon about materials, heat shield strength and other issues, they chose to design the vehicle for Mars flights.

[...]

McKay also revealed NASA is conducting a study on how the agency might send a drill to Mars aboard an unmanned Dragon capsule.

[..]
[/quote]
 
FutureSpaceTourist said:
1-This SpaceX promotional video includes an animation of a Dragon landing on Mars:

2-Doug Messier has an interesting snippet of info about it:

Chris McKay of NASA made a bit of news.

McKay said that Musk had told him that at every point where SpaceX had to make choices on Dragon about materials, heat shield strength and other issues, they chose to design the vehicle for Mars flights.
Click to expand...

As much as I like SpaceX, this stuff really irks me, because it's pretty amateur. Unless I'm missing something, there are some major problems with this.

1-Where's the parachute? And how the heck do they think they can do that when the Mars experts--the people who have done this stuff before--say that in order to land anything bigger than Mars Science Laboratory (which is smaller than Dragon), you have to invent new technology?* Send that Dragon to Mars and it's going to slam right into the surface without slowing one little bit. There is simply no way to carry enough propellant to slow down all the way to the surface of Mars. This is more than fanciful, it's silly.

2-there should be less heat shield required at Mars than Earth, so if they designed that for Mars, it would burn up at Earth. I'd like to see a better explanation of this.

I'd add that a few weeks ago when they unveiled their Falcon 9 plans they said some silly stuff about it being big enough for Mars Sample Return. That shows that they don't understand the problems with MSR. The reason to split up the mission is not because there's not a big enough rocket, but because there is not enough money to pay for the entire mission in a single gulp.


*That technology might include large area, low-density heat shields for slowing down in the upper atmosphere. Imagine a spacecraft with a huge umbrella in front of it, or trailing behind.
 
I think they are referring more to the capsule re-entry speed at earth at the end of the mission:

Crude speeds for re-entry:

LEO Return: 25,000~ FPS
Trans Lunar Return: 36,200~ FPS
Trans Mars Return: 40,000 to 70,000 FPS (depending on profile flown)
 
RyanCrierie said:
I think they are referring more to the capsule re-entry speed at earth at the end of the mission:

Crude speeds for re-entry:

LEO Return: 25,000~ FPS
Trans Lunar Return: 36,200~ FPS
Trans Mars Return: 40,000 to 70,000 FPS (depending on profile flown)
Click to expand...

That makes more sense.
 
blackstar said:
Imagine a spacecraft with a huge umbrella in front of it, or trailing behind.
Click to expand...

Exactly like the IRENE project currently ongoing by the Italian Space Agency (ASI). A 1/4 scale demonstrator will be soon tested at Earth reentry speed at CIRA's hypersonic facility (called SCIROCCO) in Capua near Caserta.
 
archipeppe said:
blackstar said:
Imagine a spacecraft with a huge umbrella in front of it, or trailing behind.
Click to expand...

Exactly like the IRENE project currently ongoing by the Italian Space Agency (ASI). A 1/4 scale demonstrator will be soon tested at Earth reentry speed at CIRA's hypersonic facility (called SCIROCCO) in Capua near Caserta.
Click to expand...

Bobby Braun talked about some of this in an interview over a year ago. He said that in the 1970s NASA developed Mars entry, descent and landing technology for Viking. But that technology does not work for anything larger than Viking (I think the limit is about 4 metric tons). If you want to go larger, to a human vehicle, you need new technology. A big thing is that you need to slow down a lot faster very high in the Martian atmosphere, because otherwise the vehicle will impact the ground. I think that we are at the point where a larger vehicle would come in so fast that it would hit the ground even before it could deploy the parachute. So you have to slow early so you can deploy the chute.
 
It's not looking good for SpaceX: SpaceX Gleam Slips with Launch Plans

If SpaceX fails, it may well be the straw that breaks the back of NASA's COTS program, along with that of whatever space policy the current Administration has left.


By the way, I suspect 'Gleam' was meant to be 'Team'
 
There's a big difference between a 2-month delay and a failed company.
 
Grey Havoc said:
It's not looking good for SpaceX: SpaceX Gleam Slips with Launch Plans

If SpaceX fails, it may well be the straw that breaks the back of NASA's COTS program, along with that of whatever space policy the current Administration has left.
Click to expand...

no, there still is OSC. And COTS is not the center of the current space policy. There is the unmanned program, ISS, SLS and MPCV.
 
Grey Havoc said:
Wars have been won and lost on less.
Click to expand...

If companies would go bankrupt every time there's a 2-month delay on a project, we'd all still be subsistence farmers.
 
They also got a segment on CBS' "60 Minutes" program:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57399210/spacex-entrepreneurs-race-to-space/?tag=currentVideoInfo;videoMetaInfo

It was a pretty good segment, although I don't think they delved deeply enough into the issues and they left out some key points. For one thing, they portrayed the "skepticism" about SpaceX as primarily coming from former Apollo astronauts (that was a great segment, as Musk started to tear up). The problem is that "60 Minutes" did not really go into the business case issue. The Apollo astronauts talked about safety (a complex issue that a TV show is never going to be able to cover effectively), but there are also questions about how likely it is that SpaceX can be financially viable without substantially raising their prices and/or securing more NASA money. In many ways, the technology issues are easy, but the business issues are more difficult.

And there were a few other things that they left out. The "delay" in the launch to ISS was not from February to March--SpaceX was talking about launching last year (and the Falcon 9 launch was delayed from 2008 to 2010). And there has been rumbling within the industry that during 2011 SpaceX issued multiple press releases about stuff that they wanted to do, like land on Mars, develop a reusable first stage, develop a powerful Falcon 9 Heavy, while they did not launch a single rocket. I read a comment somewhere where somebody said "They need to shut up and launch."

The Aviation Week article casts a little well-needed skepticism toward SpaceX. It's not that the company is destined to fail, but nobody has really taken a very objective look at them from a business perspective.
 

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