South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.

[Perdikofas]

Late Olifant Mk1A with mine plow, camo net, barrel plug, and possibly a thermal shroud? Gun seems thicker than the average GT-3.

 

[kaiserbill]

That barrel looks interesting.
I'm assuming it's very late 80's early 90's, due to the style of display.
Where was the photo taken?

 

[Perdikofas]

That barrel looks interesting.
I'm assuming it's very late 80's early 90's, due to the style of display.
Where was the photo taken?

No idea, photo is from VEG magazine issue 6.

 

[Mech]

Some armor upgrade packages developed by armscor

 

[Mech]

m-60 upgrade

 

[estian12]

Some armor upgrade packages developed by armscor

Do you have more pics man?

 

[kaiserbill]

That's a really interesting post..never knew these projects existed.
Packages for the M60, Centurion, and T54/55..
Any idea of the date of these upgrades?
I echo the sentiment...any further pics or details?

 

[estian12]

That's a really interesting post..never knew these projects existed.
Packages for the M60, Centurion, and T54/55..
Any idea of the date of these upgrades?
I echo the sentiment...any further pics or details?

olifant Mk1A*

 

[kaiserbill]

I know it's an Olifant, but was reasoning that if it fits on an Olifant, it fits on every single one of the thousands of Centurions built.

Looking at the pictures again, a couple of things to note:

The vehicle colour is the previous tan scheme before it was replaced by the 3-tone vehicle camouflage scheme around 1993/4.
Thus, I suspect these armour packages date from before then.
The Olifant photo is different from the others regarding quality and location.
I suspect the Olifant upgrade was either part of an upgrade that was looked at (and probably discarded) that eventually led to the Olifant Mk1b.
The Mk1b has large passive composite armour modules, not smaller reactive armour blocks as seen on this Olifant Mk1a.
The T54/55 seems to have a mixture of large passive armour and smaller reactive armour modules.
The M60 seems to be large passive composite armour, with no smaller reactive modules.
Plenty of T54/55 were captured and available.
The M60 one assumes came from Israel.

 

[Graugrun]

@Mech - Attached is from a Reutech brochure (I may have posted this before..?), see the bottom pic. I have also seen a CAD scan from a Gennan company brochure that is exactly the same as your first pic (T-54/55) with the very angled armour - at top left. If I find it again, I'll post it too.

 

[Mech]

Some armor upgrade packages developed by armscor

Do you have more pics man?

Fished the pics from some Denel promo material. Haven seen a single brochure for these packages.

 

[kaiserbill]

Thanks for the pics and brochures.
On Graugruns brochure, the Olifant armour package weighs over 4 metric tons.
The Olifant Mk1b was listed at 58 tons.
The Olifant MK2 is listed at 60 tons.

I have long suspected the Mk1b is actually a 60 ton tank, and that armour package confirms this, when compared to the Olifant Mk1A weight without the additional armour and other additions.

 

[Creative]

Some armor upgrade packages developed by armscor

That T-55 armor upgrade resembles Enigma.

 

[Perdikofas]

Mokopa missiles and launcher on a Samil 20, probably for ground-launch testing.

 

[td_07]

Some armor upgrade packages developed by armscor

That T-55 armor upgrade resembles Enigma.

Any connection like how the Al-Fao resembled the G6? How extensive was the defence cooperation between Iraq and South Africa at the time?

 

[gary.signal]

The Okapi was a large 6x6 armoured mine protected vehicle. I'm unsure of the timeframe of it's development, or of its purpose or role, although I've seen it described as a mobile command post.

The Okapi was developed as a Tactical \ Combat EW platform, a limited number are still in use today.

 

[gary.signal]

This is the Mechem Yster Arend (Iron Eagle).

Does anyone know what or for whom this vehicle was designed for? Paratroopers or special forces perhaps?

There is a picture below of one in Yugoslavia, so it's from the early 90's at least.

How many of these were made?

The Iron Eagle was intended for the 44 Para Bde, anti tank Pl. They turned out to be not so air deliverable and were therefore not in use for long.

 

[Perdikofas]

Olifant Optimum and Mamba Sabre with a mortar (81mm?) from Journal of Military Ordnance Volume 9 Number 2, March 1999

 

[alejandrogrossi]

Olifant Optimum and Mamba Sabre with a mortar (81mm?) from Journal of Military Ordnance Volume 9 Number 2, March 1999

The turret of the Olifant Optium, shows like the 105mm it´s a little small.

 

[Perdikofas]

Olifant Mk1B prototype during testing, first 3 photos off FB, last one from a Soldier of Fortune magazine, unfortunately I've not noted down the specific issue.

 

[kaiserbill]

Some further pictures of the Olifant Optimal or Optimum being exhibited.
3 pics show it when it still had the composite armour covering the trunnion, which is now absent from the vehicle found at the Armour Museum as seen in 2 of the pics, as well as earlier in the thread.

Also included is a brochure.

This appears to be a brand new turret, and not an uparmoured turret as found on the Olifant Mk1b and Mk2.
This was the original Olifant Mk2 before that designation was reused on a further upgraded Mk1b we see today.

The new turret had a turret bustle with blowout panels, and could be fitted with a 120 mm gun.

The Optimal utilised technology leveraged from the TTD program.

 

[kaiserbill]

Looking at the flat sided turret displayed in the factory in the brochure, and the turret of the Optimal, it is clear they are the same turret. The factory turret simply hasn't had the wedge shaped modular front composite and side turret armour fitted when the photo was taken.
A perusal of these pics, as well as those earlier in the thread seems to definitely confirm this.

This clears up a bit of a mystery.

The turret in the factory wasn't the TTD turret (albeit closely influenced by it) and also wasn't the turret originally fitted to the large Bismark 8x8.
There were always differences to be seen in these 3 turrets.

In a way, some of the conjecture and discussion earlier in the thread on whether the later Olifants had a new turret or not can now be seen in the correct light.
Both parties were right. Sort of..

The side cutout of the turret for the smoke dischargers are a giveaway, as are some of the other turret features.

 

[Perdikofas]

Yep,deffo based on the mortar carrier.

Apologies from me,it has been suggested that this varient actually carried a AA warning radar and was not EW. Hopefully more info will emerge,even if its now almost 25yrs after the fact.

I've never heard of an AA warning radar on the Ratel. I must say though, that the pictures do seem to point in this direction.

Can anybody identify that antennae array? I assume that it can be raised higher?

I know I am over a decade late, however I still think it's worth answering for posterity. The model is the original Israeli EL/M-2106 (not the newer ones). Both the Israeli and Argentinian militaries have used it in the past.

 

[Graugrun]

GSV develops unique Ghost armoured protected vehicle​

South African armoured vehicle company Global Specialised Vehicles (GSV) is launching a new vehicle that is somewhat unique in the market as it offers high levels of protection similar to a military-grade armoured personnel carrier (APC) yet can legally be driven on the road, allowing it to be used by commercial security companies for asset protection, security, cash in transit work and more.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/gvs-develops-unique-ghost-armoured-protected-vehicle/

 

[Mech]

Bismarck in water testing.

 

[Graugrun]

OTT Solutions advancing Ratel Service Life Extension Programme​

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/editor...ncing-ratel-service-life-extension-programme/

 

[Mech]

OTT Solutions advancing Ratel Service Life Extension Programme​

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/editor...ncing-ratel-service-life-extension-programme/

Its going to be interesting how they integrate into orbat the existing company or so worth of Badgers with these if it goes ahead. OTT also said that they are looking into integrating the 30mm into the turret, so we can have ammo compatibility. They had a 35mm in the ratel once ,so it could be done.

I'm a bit concerned about how the new sight attaches to the gun. Its been a while since I helped pull a 20mm barrel ( by sheer coincidence I usually disappeared whenever volunteers were needed to help the gunner with pulling that thing), so I could be wrong about how the shroud touches the barrel , but there might be some zeroing and vibration issues with the electronics. I do remember the top of the shroud had to come off. Some MBT's like challenger have the same setup with its TOGS, but that's separated from the barrel by the whole recoil system.

 

[Voltzz]

ARMSCOR presented this Electric Transmission Demonstrator (ETD) on the 'All Electric Combat Vehicle'-Conference in Germany 1999.
It was based on a MAN 8x8 truck and used eight electric wheel-hub-motors by Magnet-Motor

 

[Voltzz]

ARMSCOR presented this Electric Transmission Demonstrator (ETD) on the 'All Electric Combat Vehicle'-Conference in Germany 1999.
It was based on a MAN 8x8 truck and used eight electric wheel-hub-motors by Magnet-Motor

Some more detail from this polish paper:

In South Africa, two programs are being implemented using demonstration vehicles: an 8x8 electric research truck (ETD program) and an 8x8 electric combat vehicle - CVED program.
The ETD program was carried out on an 8x8 off-road vehicle from MAN, adapted by MM for a hybrid drive. The 360kW generator is driven by a self-ignition engine. Each of the electric motors placed in the wheels of the vehicle has a power of 75kW and a torque of 1300Nm, which is increased to 16kNm through the planetary gear of the wheel. The vehicle has an inertial energy accumulator.
Based on the experience of the ETD program, the CVED program is being implemented, which assumes a complete reconstruction of the ROOIKAT armored combat vehicle into a hybrid vehicle, using drive system units from the MM company (Fig. 21a)[18]. The vehicle uses an MTU6V199 engine with a power of 450kW/2400 rpm with a power generator 425kW electric motor located along the rear wall of the vehicle (fig. 21c) and motors placed in each of its eight wheels (fig. 21b). The wheels of the vehicle are equipped with M67 engines with a maximum torque of 2250Nm and a continuous power of 80kW. A vehicle weighing 28t reaches a maximum speed of 120km/h (continuous 90km/h), accelerates to 60km/h in 20s, climbs 70% of slopes and can travel 5km when powered by batteries.
Tests of the demonstrator are planned by the end of 2007 in order to compare its parameters with a vehicle powered by an internal combustion engine and a mechanical transmission system.

 

[Graugrun]

Thanks for posting some very nice info there Voltzz - The truck ETD in your post #1988 is a new revelation to me!

Here's a new vehicle from DCD - better known for their 'Husky' vehicles..

DCD launches new vehicle as it celebrates its 125th anniversary​

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featur...hicle-as-it-celebrates-its-125th-anniversary/

 

[Perdikofas]

Photos of the Ratel 35 and EAOS that I believe have not been posted before, as well as some more info on the latter and the Ratel 120, from Jane's Armour and Artillery 2000-2001, scanned by skylancer7441. Please excuse the EAOS text picture, it went on for 3 collumns so I spliced it together.

 

[Perdikofas]

Higher quality photo of the exhibited Olifant Optimum that's been circulating for a long time now, as well as some more info on it, confirming the engine is a higher output version of the Mk1B engine (in turn an improved version of the Mk1A's Continental V12), fairly close to the Olifant Mk2's engine output. From Jane's International Defence Review vol 32, February 1999, scanned by skylancer7441.

 

[YellowCat]

Is there any information on the 120mm GT-6 and GT-12 tank guns? Muzzle velocity, for example.

 

[Prophet141]

Is South Africa planning on acquiring a new series of MBTs? Or have they replaced them with wheeled fire support vehicles? Or are they still using the Oliphant?

 

[GTX]

Is South Africa planning on acquiring a new series of MBTs? Or have they replaced them with wheeled fire support vehicles? Or are they still using the Oliphant?

Apparently the Olifant is still in service.

 

[kaiserbill]

A small number of Olifant Mk1b tanks have been upgraded to Olifant Mk2.
This is not to be confused with the original Mk2 designation.
The improvements mainly focused on additional power-pack improvements for more power, and the fire control system.

 

[Mech]

Photos of the Ratel 35 and EAOS that I believe have not been posted before, as well as some more info on the latter and the Ratel 120, from Jane's Armour and Artillery 2000-2001, scanned by skylancer7441. Please excuse the EAOS text picture, it went on for 3 collumns so I spliced it together.

Is this a possible pic of the 120mm Ratel.

 

[Mg Je Moe]

Yes it had, here is a G4 at the School of Artillery in Potch, 1883.

Do you have any more pictures of this Howitzer?

 

[Spherical Cleric]

Kadija your right the whole thing was a lash up as they didn't have anything else to hand, but it woked well enough for something only ever used in training. The vehicle got about well enough & the 12,7 BMG was tried as well but not adopted.

I think four rounds could be packed end up in the Ferret & the other ammo came along in a Jakklas with a trailer or two as a Jakklas could tow multiple trailers.

MikeR

I might me 12 years late to this but I see you're still active, have you or anyone got any good sources for the amount of ammo carried? Or internal photos?
I'm trying to do a suggestion post for the WarThunder forum and I want to prove that the Ferret with the 106mm could carry at least 10 rounds by itself, even with an ammunition trailer would do!
Thanks.

 

[Graugrun]

First order rolls in for SVI’s six-wheeled MAX 3 armoured vehicle​

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featur...-for-svis-six-wheeled-max-3-armoured-vehicle/