SOR 206 : E-3 AWACS competitors

[CJGibson]

Duncan,

You want to do one of these:

Chris

 

[Jemiba]

In the second from top, the radom would be tilted sideways for landing ? Or would it have been inflatable, as in
the Sea King AEW and fitted into a bay on the underside, when not in use ?

 

[Spook]

Duncan,

You want to do one of these:

Chris

How the Landing would take place in the 3rd,4th, and 5th Concept Models?

Thank you,
AK

 

[northerndancer2000]

Duncan,

You want to do one of these:

Chris

Is this one of the drawings from the forthcoming The Air Staff and AEW? I have the same question as Jemiba and Ardavan about how to land the versions with the big Tootsie-Pops radomes. On the second, it looks like there may be an outline of a radome shaped hatch to allow the radome to be swung forward for landing?


Thanks

 

[Triton]

McDonnell Douglas DC-8 AWACS model manufactured by PacMin Marketing Aids found on eBay.

URL:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-8-AWACS-PacMin-Pacific-Miniatures-Vintage-Factory-Topping-type-Concept-Model-/200910936740?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec7399aa4

This was the earliest concept proposed by McDonnell Douglas for the USAF AWACS program, which eventually was won by Boeing. As the design evolved, MacDac successively moved the radome forward to minimize interference with tail control surfaces. Pacific Miniatures made this injection-molded model sometime around 1965. Fuselage length is 11.5 inches and wingspan is 11 inches. Like all PacMin models, the build quality is first class. It's in superb shape--no warping, dings, or decal chips. Two engines were reattached but the repairs were well done. The wood & metal stand has an intact felt bottom. The raised metal nameplate reads simply "McDonnell Douglas AWACS" and bears the modern MacDac logo. Insurance is included. And please check out my other auctions of unusual desktop models this week.

 

[allysonca]

FYI, all of the Douglas AWAC's models were not made by Pac Min, but Marketing Aids, a Douglas associated model shop that was located in Anaheim CA. Master model maker Al Parker did most of the models and his wife Ann put on the blade antennas on the upper fuselage running down the center line. There were 2 sizes that were made in large numbers. This example does not have the blades for some reason, but it was not uncommon as I have seen both version. Models were Viet Nam camo and silver.

 

[Triton]

Thank you for the correction and additional information, allysonca.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the DC-8 AWACS drawing and a mock-up.

 

[Pioneer]

Very interesting find gents!!Love the model, love the information!Especially interesting -

"The USAF finally made a decision and awarded the contract to Boeing, which was running out of work at the time"

I would love to see more pictures of that McDonnell Douglas mock-up RegardsPioneer

 

[Triton]

McDonnell Douglas DC-8 AWACS models found on eBay. Note the different positions of the radome.

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DOUGLAS-AWACS-PROPOSALS-RARE-VTG-NOT-TOPPING-OR-PRECISE-/121099268931?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c32143343

 

[Triton]

Additional photos of McDonnell Douglas DC-8 AWACS models found on eBay.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

Found this artwork on the magazine National Aeronautics.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Pioneer]

Nice one Mark! Very nice!!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

Back when the radome was on the fin....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Chrome-BOEING-AWACS-DESK-ASHTRAY-holder-stand-Bainbridge-model-airplane-/281107717558?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item4173535db6

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[hesham]

Great find my dear Mark,


also you put the picture here.

 

[Triton]

Indentation for an ash tray?

 

[Stargazer]

Indentation for an ash tray?

Have you been to the eBay page? That's exactly what it was, an ashtray stand.

 

[Triton]

Have you been to the eBay page? That's exactly what it was, an ashtray stand.

Sorry, it was a joke I was trying to make that fell flat. Attitudes about smoking have changed since the mid-1970s in the United States. Boeing wouldn't make a gift of an astray stand today.

 

[circle-5]

These were advertised by Bainbridge as paper clip holders. Allyn Models came equipped with a glass ashtray, cleverly positioned so the model would always be soaked in tar and nicotine.

 

[Triton]

These were advertised by Bainbridge as paper clip holders. Allyn Models came equipped with a glass ashtray, cleverly positioned so the model would always be soaked in tar and nicotine.

Thanks for the information, circle-5.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


I still love this old photos,from L + K magazine.

 

[Triton]

Boeing AWACS concept model manufactured by Bainbridge Manufacturing found on eBay.

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Vintage-AWACS-Boeing-707-Desk-Display-Model-by-Bainbridge-Mfg-WA-/360858331123?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5404d527f3

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Douglas model D-989 - Direct predecessor of /alternative to D-990?

(Presumably a response to TAC/ADC SOR 206 entitled "Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS)" hence the "ADC/TAC" text)


Source:
http://beigleart.com/aviation-artwork-memorabilia/

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Slightly OT but:


(Added colour photos from old version posted long ago http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,473.msg3337.html#msg3337)

http://skillmansofamerica.com/AWACHIST.pdf

Development of the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) Radar

Robert E. Cowdery, Life Senior Member, IEEE
Westinghouse Retired, Deceased
William A. Skillman, Life Fellow Member, IEEE

Nice PDF history of Westinghouse AWACS radar development - I wasn't aware it was descended from the APQ-81 radar from the Missileer.

 

[fightingirish]

This is an early configuration for a 707-based AWACS aircraft. The illustration shows Boeing’s initial configuration for the AWACS, which featured a tail-mounted rotodome mounted on a forward-swept vertical stabilizer.

Source: http://www.boeingimages.com/archive/Early%20E-3%20AWACS%20Concept-2F3XC5OGQM5.html

 

[circle-5]

Same photo, after removing all the Boeing logos, titles and watermarks. Thankfully, no other manufacturer is that obsessed with squeezing profits from illustrations that were paid for decades ago by American taxpayers. [end of rant]

 

[Stargazer]

Thankfully, no other manufacturer is that obsessed with squeezing profits from illustrations that were paid for decades ago by American taxpayers. [end of rant]

Couldn't agree more... :

 

[The Artist]

A pair of photos of a wind tunnel model of the DC-8-62 AWACS concept. These are part of that recent donation to the Museum.

 

[circle-5]

A pair of photos of a wind tunnel model of the DC-8-62 AWACS concept. These are part of that recent donation to the Museum.

The long fuselage stretch suggests a DC-8-61 or DC-8-63 airframe, though it's a bit hard to tell ...

 

[aim9xray]

The plug sections that are visible on the model fuselage indicate that it is indeed a stretch; the engine pylon configuration matches that of the DC-8 Super 62 and 63 aircraft. If those are the stock fuselage plugs, than this model would appear to be based on the DC-8 Super 63.

 

[circle-5]

The plug sections that are visible on the model fuselage indicate that it is indeed a stretch; the engine pylon configuration matches that of the DC-8 Super 62 and 63 aircraft. If those are the stock fuselage plugs, than this model would appear to be based on the DC-8 Super 63.

Thank you for narrowing it down. Coming to think of it, I've never seen evidence of a DC-8-61 AWACS proposal. The model I have at home is also based on the Super 63.

 

[The Artist]

All the photographs from that donation are currently out for high resolution scanning. (I do low resolution scans here as part of cataloging some of the items into the collection.) These two pictures were part of a photographic print of a page number 36 of report G854, Vol. I which seems to be an introductory or instructional document on low speed wind tunnel operation at McDonnell Aircraft. (No. We do not have the full report.) The date on the page is 20 March 1969, and the model is listed as LB-161M. Also included in the header information on the page is a negative/image number - D4E-503907 - which I take to be the negative number for this page. Typed above the forward view of the model is "THREE STRUT MODEL INSTALLATION (S63Ra6Hs4A)" I don't speak wind tunnel, so maybe someone else here can translate that string. Another photographic page in the donation is page 35 of the same report. (negative number D4E-503906) The photos on this page show the model is straight airliner configuration, and it is also listed as LB-161M. Above the forward view picture on this page is typed "TWO STRUT MODEL INSTALLATION (S62)."

A number of items in this donation are a booklet and a series of one or two page documents each giving introductory overview of McDonnell's Low Speed Wind Tunnel, the Mini-speed Wind Tunnel, and the Polysonic Wind Tunnel. (These items are also out for full scanning.) I've been told that the person who donated these items spent a lot of his career time at MAC doing wind tunnel work.

I get the feeling I've added to the confusion on this subject. That makes this a good day.

 

[RAP]

Douglas AWACS Model

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Douglas-Dc-8-AWACS-USAF-Resin-Manufacture-Model-Likely-Hyatt-Or-PacMin-Models/123250221412?hash=item1cb2492164:g:3AsAAOSwJRxbMqHn

 

[RAP]

Drawings from AWST. These were cut out of the article which I have not posted. They are similar to many of the others in this thread but I thought I'd include them.

 

[Archibald]

That inverted tail is intriguing, particularly with a Soviet AWACS borrowing the trick from Boeing (the An-72 AWACS).

 

[hesham]

From L+K 6/1972.

 

[Prometheus79]

Very interesting!

I wonder why nobody thought of placing a radar antenna on a B-52 to create a 8,800 mile radius AWACS

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Very interesting!

I wonder why nobody thought of placing a radar antenna on a B-52 to create a 8,800 mile radius AWACS

The Soviet Tu-126 was based on the civilian version of the Tu-95, so that's roughly comparable, but it was far from an AWACS in capability. I'm not sure there's enough room inside a B-52 for all the electronics, operators, stations etc of a full AWACS, at least with 1970s era electronics.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Very interesting!

I wonder why nobody thought of placing a radar antenna on a B-52 to create a 8,800 mile radius AWACS

Something along those lines was considered, but IIRC, there wasn't enough room for mission equipment and associated extra personnel.

 

[Hobbes]

Very interesting!

I wonder why nobody thought of placing a radar antenna on a B-52 to create a 8,800 mile radius AWACS

The Soviet Tu-126 was based on the civilian version of the Tu-95, so that's roughly comparable, but it was far from an AWACS in capability. I'm not sure there's enough room inside a B-52 for all the electronics, operators, stations etc of a full AWACS, at least with 1970s era electronics.

The Tu-126 had the fuselage of the Tu-114, which has a similar fuselage diameter as the B707, and it's longer.