SiAW (Stand-in Attack Weapon)

[Josh_TN]

I’m all for activating as many munitions production lines as possible but USAF has their toy and I think the USN will hold out for HALO. I cannot imagine a foreign organization funding it if they could just buy AGM-88G.

 

[bring_it_on]

Its a developed system but we need to get it into production.

It is not a developed system. video itself references ready to go into EMD. Not completed EMD and ready for production. SiAW is in development now, and its parent missile (AARGM-ER) is undergoing operational testing and could declare IOC in the next few months or next year.

 

[Forest Green]

Mako, A Hypersonic Missile That’s More Than Ready

Hypersonic missiles take time to develop. Especially those compact enough to stow in the internal bay of stealth aircraft for close-up launches—and innovative enough to maneuver in the hypersonic regime.

www.lockheedmartin.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1816060746729484304

View: https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1816060746729484304

 

[TomcatViP]

But why mentioning only the F-35C? (and not the A)

 

[Forest Green]

But why mentioning only the F-35C? (and not the A)

Character limit maybe. A&C are the same size anyway. Although SiAW is a USAF program, so maybe they're pushing this for the USN.

 

[TomcatViP]

It´s the same typo(?) in LM marketing piece.

 

[bring_it_on]

I’m all for activating as many munitions production lines as possible but USAF has their toy and I think the USN will hold out for HALO. I cannot imagine a foreign organization funding it if they could just buy AGM-88G.

How is it different from an AGM-88G? Can Lockheed cater to a different need, integrate different guidance and warhead solutions and field something that is more optimized for a particular target set (that AARGM-ER and SiAW are not optimized against)? One can use ones imagination and come with a whole host of scenarios where this could work for US and foreign customers. HALO is highly ambitious and highly risky. Not sure if its doable within program timelines to be completely honest.

 

[timmymagic]

Character limit maybe. A&C are the same size anyway. Although SiAW is a USAF program, so maybe they're pushing this for the USN.

They seem to be pushing it for the UK as well...just posted this and the article in the Re-arming the UK thread...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1816102364736008260

View: https://twitter.com/LMUKNews/status/1816102364736008260

 

[Forest Green]

They seem to be pushing it for the UK as well...just posted this and the article in the Re-arming the UK thread...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1816102364736008260

View: https://twitter.com/LMUKNews/status/1816102364736008260

Not going to fit internally on a B though, as with many things.

 

[Josh_TN]

Not going to fit internally on a B though, as with many things.

13” diameter I would think would fit? Perhaps not with the fins.

 

[Forest Green]

The length is the problem.

 

[TomcatViP]

From LM

 

[flateric]

View: https://youtu.be/QNfwNsa55ys?si=t_to7718sJH0YRbK

 

[flateric]

From LM

Why not attach image to the post and not add fresh grave to the cemetery of SPF dead image links?

 

[TomcatViP]

Hi @flateric,

But how would you attach an online image?

Best,

TViP

 

[Andreas Parsch]

But how would you attach an online image?

What about downloading it first, and then attaching your downloaded copy? Together with a source attribution and the original link, of course.

 

[TomcatViP]

Lack of time to check properly if the material can be reposted that way.

 

[Forest Green]

Hi @flateric,

But how would you attach an online image?

Best,

TViP

prt sc (print screen button), open Paint, Ctrl+V, select part you want with icon at top left, Ctrl+C, go to forum, Ctrl+V.

The first time you do it, you may have to disable that crappy clipping tool that Microsoft added in the Options when that weird screen appears, or alternatively use Ctrl+Prt Sc instead of just Prt Sc.

How to Disable Snipping Tool and Use Lightshot [Win-11]

After updating to Windows 11, the Prt Sc Sysrq key automatically opens the Snipping Tool, causing inconvenience for Lightshot users. Here's how to resolve this issue: Access Settings: Press Win + I to open the Settings menu.

www.linkedin.com

Or just right-click copy image & paste if it allows.

 

[flateric]

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C-pr4CMN2ma/?igsh=Ynoxd3d4N2hyOXVy

 

[NMaude]

Millenium 7*HistroyTech has recently uploaded an interesting video about the Mako:

The MAKO missile represents an important change of direction ofr the US defence industry.

 

[kqcke for you]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1858518895977492690

View: https://x.com/beverstine/status/1858518895977492690

 

[Josh_TN]

Ok, so it really is not going to deviate from AARGM-ER by much. Presumably a different terminal seeker? I think USAF wanted a modular warhead option too.

 

[GTX]

First Stand-In Attack Missile Delivered To USAF

The Air Force hopes to field the Stand-In Attack Weapon, designed to offer a new way to strike key time-sensitive targets, starting in 2026.

www.twz.com

 

[NMaude]

First Stand-In Attack Missile Delivered To USAF

The Air Force hopes to field the Stand-In Attack Weapon, designed to offer a new way to strike key time-sensitive targets, starting in 2026.

www.twz.com

So they're going for a common airframe/rocket-motor/warhead/tail-controls design? That should lower production costs quite a bit.

 

[joshjosh]

So they're going for a common airframe/rocket-motor/warhead/tail-controls design? That should lower production costs quite a bit.

Perhaps they will be able to get the cost down from $1.3M (AARGM-ER) to $1.1M. With this insane cost saving we will finally be able to out-produce the PRC!

 

[Forest Green]

Northrop Grumman Delivers First SiAW Missile for Air Force Testing

The first Stand-in Attack Weapon (SiAW), an anti-air defense missile built by Northrop Grumman, has been delivered to the Air Force.

www.airandspaceforces.com

Northrop describes the SiAW as addressing “capability gaps created by 2025+ threats.” Although branded a “stand-in” weapon, Northrop said the weapon can be delivered “from sanctuary,” meaning at distances outside the engagement zones of some anti-aircraft systems. Its actual range and speed have not been divulged, but the AARGM-ER is believed to be a Mach 4 missile with a range of 180 miles, and the SiAW may have better performance.

 

[sferrin]

 

[Forest Green]

Stand-In Attack Missile Released From Fighter For First Time In USAF Test

Flight testing of the Stand-In Attack Weapon, under development to help the USAF strike key time-sensitive targets, is now fully underway.

www.twz.com

 

[NMaude]

Defense Updates put out this video about the importance of the SiAW yesterday:

The U.S. Air Force has reached a significant milestone in developing its new Stand-in Attack Weapon (SiAW), successfully completing the missile's first test release from an F-16 Fighting Falcon. Although the test was conducted on November 7 over the Gulf of Mexico, the achievement was officially announced on December 2. This successful trial marks a key step toward advancing the evaluation of the tactical air-to-surface missile system, which aims to strengthen the U.S. military’s strike capabilities.

The test employed a Jettison Test Vehicle (JTV), a non-functional prototype without a rocket motor or electronics, to validate the safe separation of the SiAW missile from the aircraft. This critical step ensures the missile can be safely deployed in operational scenarios and sets the stage for future testing phases.

The mission was coordinated by the 96th Test Wing, with operations managed from the Eglin Central Control Facility. Engineers and pilots collaborated closely to ensure the test's success, while aerial footage was captured to aid in post-flight analysis. Major James Tipton, assistant director of operations for the 780th Test Squadron, commended the effort, describing it as “a testament to the outstanding teamwork from everyone involved.”

In this video, Defense Updates analyzes why Stand-in Attack Weapon (SiAW) is imperative for the U.S. military?

#defenseupdates #StandInAttackWeapon #usmilitary

Chapters:
00:11 INTRODUCTION
02:37 BACKGROUND
04:28 SiAW
07:28 ANALYSIS

I assume that while the JTV had an inert rocket-motor, warhead and GCU-electronics it would've been instrumented with a telemetry unit onboard to transmit measurements data?

 

[bring_it_on]

With the AF now looking at thousands of SiAW's, I wonder how challenging it would be to develop an air-air variant of the missile to equip F-15EX's and upgraded F-16's. Should get a sizable range increase over AIM-120D without the sort of weight and drag associated with something like AIM-174B.

 

[Josh_TN]

With the AF now looking at thousands of SiAW's, I wonder how challenging it would be to develop an air-air variant of the missile to equip F-15EX's and upgraded F-16's. Should get a sizable range increase over AIM-120D without the sort of weight and drag associated with something like AIM-174B.

Probably has poor turning endgame with those small control surfaces, but who’s to say SiAW does not already? If it uses an active seeker, tracking a multi engine aircraft probably is not difficult. Though I suspect there are other black programs that are specific to long range engagements.

 

[bring_it_on]

I didn’t mean using it as an aid to air weapon as is. I would design an air to air variant of it so probably some changes. It’s a digitally designed weapon so lends itself nicely to those sort of modifications.

 

[Josh_TN]

It is certainly possible, though I would think the USAF would attempt something a little more efficient than just a bigger wider single pulse (AFAIK) solid rocket. SM-6 makes more sense for the USN because it is already heavily integrated into NIFCA. I would expect a dedicated LREW type system to be multistage or air breathing or something. Hopefully one already exists and is in service; it always struck me as a huge gap in the USAF portfolio going back a couple decades.

Is there a number designation for SiAW yet?

 

[TomS]

With the AF now looking at thousands of SiAW's, I wonder how challenging it would be to develop an air-air variant of the missile to equip F-15EX's and upgraded F-16's. Should get a sizable range increase over AIM-120D without the sort of weight and drag associated with something like AIM-174B.

Isn't that the same niche as JATM?

 

[NMaude]

With the AF now looking at thousands of SiAW's, I wonder how challenging it would be to develop an air-air variant of the missile to equip F-15EX's and upgraded F-16's. Should get a sizable range increase over AIM-120D without the sort of weight and drag associated with something like AIM-174B.

My thoughts exactly, I too have been thinking about the possibility of an AAM version of the SiAW.

Is there a number designation for SiAW yet?

You mean a US DoD tri services designation? If it hasn't been assigned one yet it will soon as it is going into production.

 

[TomS]

My thoughts exactly, I too have been thinking about the possibility of an AAM version of the SiAW.



You mean a US DoD tri services designation? If it hasn't been assigned one yet it will soon as it is going into production.

Hard to imagine that it won't be AGM-88H, given the degree of commonality with AARGM-ER. But weirder things have happened in Air Force land.

 

[Andreas Parsch]

Hard to imagine that it won't be AGM-88H, given the degree of commonality with AARGM-ER. But weirder things have happened in Air Force land.

More like AGM-88J. -88H was used up for some FMS version of HARM.

 

[NMaude]

-88H was used up for some FMS version of HARM.

Do you have any details?

 

[TomS]

More like AGM-88J. -88H was used up for some FMS version of HARM.

Interesting. Any chance it was Taiwan?

I found a really hard-to-decipher page in Japanese that seems to say that the Taiwanese F-16V upgrades involve AGM-88H. I don't give it a ton of credibility but it might be?

https://aobamil.sakura.ne.jp/mil-dic/F.html

Ｆ－１６Ａ／Ｂブロック２０Ｖ＞：台湾空軍のF-16A/Bブロック20改良型。F-16Vに準じる仕様に改修したもので、AN/APG-83レーダー、JHMCS、オートGCAS、リンク16を搭載し、表面にハブグラスⅡRAMを塗り、スナイパー照準ポッド、AIM-9X、JDAM、GBU-12、AGM-154、AGM-84L、AGM-88H、AN/ALQ-184、MS-110偵察モジュールなどを運用可能とした。保有141機全機を2023年までに改修する予定で、初号機は2018年10月19日に嘉義空軍基地に到着、2021年11月18日にFOC獲得記念式典が行われた（この時点での配備機数は64機）。参考：月刊JWings2,’22、3,’22、1,’24

 

[NMaude]

Interesting. Any chance it was Taiwan?

According the AGM-88 Wikipedia article it would appear that Taiwan got AGM-88Bs upgraded to the AGM-88F.