Shenyang FC-31 demonstrators / J-35 naval fighter / J-35A land-based version

[Sundog]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Has anyone figured out what speeds the J-31 and J-20 prototypes are landing at?

I looked at the video just above and tried to calculate it, but here are the problems I ran into;

1) You can't actually see where it touches down on the runway, since there aren't any strong shadows. It looked to me to be just after the third hash mark down the runway.

2) We don't know what weight the aircraft is at and we don't know how much of the flight envelope has been expanded so they might be landing kind of fast until they explore the low speed handling end of the flight envelope.

3) The reference mark given by Google maps, at the scale I took the screenshot it was at 500 ft., is a hollow reference outline. I don't know if you are supposed to use the distance between the inside of the reference outline as the distance, the outside, or a half point between the outlines. I used the halfway/midpoint distance as the reference length.

Having said that, I used the distance from the service road where the video was taken to where the aircraft touched down as my reference distance. The time listed between those two events is 4:48 and 5:02 respectively. I then used an image from Google maps of the airfield and scaled the distance flown in that time to be approximately 3250 ft.

Therefore, (3250'/14 sec)*(1 mile/5280')*(3600 sec/1 hour) = 158 mph.

That seems kind of fast to me, but like I said, I don't know where they are in terms of envelope expansion and how much fuel was being carried when it landed. Plus, not being able to determine the exact touch down point along the runway. Hopefully we'll get some video like this shot on a sunny day.

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

A nice size-comparison to several Flankers !

 

[FighterJock]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

A nice size-comparison to several Flankers !

Certainly looks a lot smaller than the Flanker, by the way any news if there are any more J-31 prototypes being developed? Just curious.

 

[Sundog]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

As originally suspected, J-31 mock up seen on carrier mock up

 

[flateric]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

This is not J-31 mockup. This is J-15 family something with vericals under wraps

 

[Sundog]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

This is not J-31 mockup. This is J-15 family something with vericals under wraps

You are so right. I just took a quick look at the tail and never bothered to notice that was just a wrap. Yeah, the nose shape and location of the nose gear are definitely of the "Flanker" family.

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

See also here ....

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

... Some say these recent flights are in preparation for Zhuhai.

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

:wub: via SDF

Deino

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

It has just arrived at Zhuhai !!!!


Via SDF :wub: :wub: :wub: (by "by78")

Some high-resolution photos. I believe these are new or has never been seen at such high-resolutions:

(2355x1654)

(2579x1521)

(2022x1181)

(2854x1838)

(2022x1181)

 

[pedrospe]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Great pictures Deino,thanks a lot for sharing.




best regards


Pedro

 

[Magoodotcom]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Latest on J-31 and J-20 from Feng at Information Dissemination

http://www.informationdissemination.net/2014/10/small-update-to-chinas-5th-gen-project.html

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

 

[Triton]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

"China Airshow Will Unveil J-31"
Nov. 3, 2014 - 07:29PM |
By WENDELL MINNICK

Source:
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20141103/DEFREG03/311030009/China-Airshow-Will-Unveil-J-31

TAIPEI — A Chinese airshow official has confirmed that China will unveil its stealthy J-31 fighter aircraft at China’s biggest commercial and defense airshow next week in Zhuhai, in the southern province of Guangdong near Hong Kong.

Known officially as the 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, the event will be held from Nov. 11-14. About 700 aviation companies and 120 aircraft will participate.

Built by Shenyang Aircraft, this will be the first public demonstration of the twin-engine J-31. The fighter is similar in configuration to the single-engine Lockheed F-35 stealth fighter. Chinese-language military blogs posted photographs of the J-31 practicing demonstration flights at Zhuhai last week.

The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) will be exhibiting the JH-7A and J-10 fighters, Z-8KA helicopter, and the upgraded H-6M medium-range bomber capable of carrying cruise missiles. The Hongdu L-15 Falcon fighter trainer is not yet listed nor is there a press conference. Hongdu has made a special effort at other air shows in the Middle East and Asia to promote the aircraft.

There is also no listing for the Pakistan-built JF-17 fighter, which was at the 2012 airshow. However, Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) will exhibit the FC-1 fighter, which is a Chinese variant of the JF-17. The fighter is a joint program by Chengdu Aircraft and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.

The Russian-built Su-35 super-maneuverable fighter will be on display for the first time. China and Russia have been in negotiations for a deal on the fighter since 2006 and a signing may be possible in late November.

“As far as I understand now, there will be a contract for 24 aircraft plus some spare engines,” said Vassily Kashin, an expert on Russia’s arms trade with China at Moscow’s Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. “The negotiations on engine technology transfers are progressing separately, that is a different cooperation area.”

Built by the United Aircraft Corp, the aircraft is powered by the same engine fitted on the stealthy Russian T-50, the Saturn AL-117S, which is an upgraded variant of the AL-31FN. China already imports the AL-31FN from Russia for the single-engine Chengdu J-10 fighter.

Russia agreed to a deal to build Su-27 fighters in China in the 1990s, but China began producing an Su-27 copycat, dubbed the J-11 fighter, by Shenyang Aircraft. There are fears in Moscow that China will do the same with the Su-35, as well as the AL-117 engine for its J-20 stealth fighter.

Richard Bitzinger, a defense industry specialist at Singapore’s Rajaratnam School of International Studies, said Russia will “sell the engines that go into Chinese aircraft, but not the production technology.” He said it is unlikely Russia would transfer the technology to build these types of engines in China.

At the last minute, the South Korean Air Force canceled participation in the airshow. The Black Eagles aerobatic demonstration team flies nine supersonic T-50 Golden Eagle jet trainers built by Lockheed Martin and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI). The South Korean Defense Ministry confirmed the decision on Thursday and understands US government fears that sensitive technology would be vulnerable to Chinese snooping.

This would have also made it the first time a US defense treaty ally in the region had participated in the Zhuhai airshow with military equipment. Asked to comment, Eric Schnaible, Lockheed Martin’s T-50 spokesman, said, “it would be inappropriate for us to do so.”

KAI signed a $420 million deal with the Philippines for 12 TA-50 light attack jets/lead-in fighter trainers in March. The upgraded variant of the TA-50 can carry air-to-air missiles and air-to-ground missiles. The Philippines and China are in dispute over islands in the South China Sea and there have been fears the standoffs could ignite military conflict.

Chinese UAV companies will also be profiling their platforms and equipment. AVIC will exhibit the Tianyi-1 (Sky Wing), Yilong-1 (Pterodactyl), and Haixunzhe (Sea Patroller).

Robert Michelson, a UAV specialist at Millennial Vision, said the Sky Wing and Sea Patroller are “designed for potential military applications, or to test concepts on an unmanned platform.”

The Pterodactyl started out as a surveillance and aerial reconnaissance platform, “but as with the General Atomics Predator, which was obviously the inspiration for the design, the Pterodactyl has grown to be fitted with air-to-surface weapons for use in unmanned combat aerial vehicle scenarios.”

 

[kaiserbill]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

From Zuhai...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLQEtRxflEU

 

[Triton]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

"J-31 stealth jet will be used by PLA as well as exported: expert"
Staff Reporter 2014-11-16 17:15 (GMT+8)

Source:
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20141116000131

A model of China's J-31 stealth fighter displayed at the Zhuhai Airshow in southern China's Guangdong province, where it was designated the FC-31, suggested that the fighter designed by Aviation Industry Corporation of China is intended for the overseas export market, Yin Zhou, a military expert from Beijing, told state broadcaster China Central Television however that the fighter will serve the PLA Air Force and Navy Air Force as well.

Yin said the J-31 performed very well in display flights at this year's Zhuhai Airshow even though internet users had wanted to see more maneuvers from the aircraft. Since the J-31 is still essentially at a prototype phase, Yin said it is understandable it did not try to show off too much at the exhibition. Once Aviation Industry Corporation of China is able to design a sufficiently powerful and reliable engine for the plane, the J-31 is likely to have a great future whether in service in China or exported abroad, the expert said.

Yin said he believes the J-31 can become a major rival to the US F-35 in the overseas market at a more competitive price and can compete with Russia's Su-35.

As for the PLA Air Force, Yin suggested the J-31 likely to be the air force's chief stealth fighter fighter while the larger Chengdu J-20 serves as tactical bomber. For the PLA Navy, the J-31 is likely to become China's next-generation carrier-based fighter to replace the J-15.

 

[Triton]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

A model of China’s [FC-31] stealth fighter displayed at the Zhuhai Airshow suggested that the fighter is intended for the overseas export market. However, the fighter will serve the PLA Air Force and Navy Air Force as well.

Source:
http://photo.sina.cn/album?vt=4&ch=8&sid=63454&aid=32660
http://globalaviationreport.com/2014/11/17/j-31-stealth-fighter-will-be-used-by-pla-as-well-as-for-export/

 

[pedrospe]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Great pictures,thanks a lot,is it me or the ruddders on this model,seem different from the ones on the j-31,and more like the ones on the f-35 ?




best regards


Pedro

 

[Dragon029]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Your eyes aren't betraying you; they do appear to be something more akin to the F-35's tail, or J-20's tail without the all-moving aspect.

 

[hesham]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Hi,


a comparison in sizes,between J-31 & J-20 and F-22 & F-35.


https://engtechmag.wordpress.com/2012/11/28/chinas-new-j31-stealth-fighter-an-annotated-graphic/

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

a comparison in sizes,between J-31 & J-20 and F-22 & F-35

... and still the size of the J-20 is completely wrong !!

 

[Reaper]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

the first flight years and name of the planes are mostly correct!

 

[mz]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Anybody notice the funky nozzles that in some of the huge photos from October 28 are in quite different positions?

 

[sferrin]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

a comparison in sizes,between J-31 & J-20 and F-22 & F-35

... and still the size of the J-20 is completely wrong !!

Too small?

 

[Deino]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Too small?

Surely ... the J-20 is a nearly 25m long MONSTER !!!

Surely NOT and I don't know for sure how often this image has been posted already ... even surely not 100% correct, it is definitely slightly shorter than a J-15 (= Su-33) !

Deino

 

[FighterJock]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Too small?

Surely ... the J-20 is a nearly 25m long MONSTER !!!

Surely NOT and I don't know for sure how often this image has been posted already ... even surely not 100% correct, it is definitely slightly shorter than a J-15 (= Su-33) !

Deino

This is strange, if the J-20 is shorter than the J-15 (Su-33) what would the maximum range of the J-20 be compared with the J-15 (Su-33). I always thought that the J-20 had better range than the J-15 (Su-33), but this is news to me.

 

[TomS]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

I'm not sure I see the problem here. The F-22 is slightly shorter than the F-15, but I don't think anyone would doubt that it has better range.
The detailed shape of the fuselage (and the resulting internal volume for fuel) has a much greater impact on range, as does the change to internal weapon carriage.

 

[stealthflanker]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Now we got official dimension. it seems

Sorry for bumping.
General characteristics
Length: 16.8 m (55 ft 1.42 in)
Wingspan: 11.5 m (37 ft 9 in)
Height: 4.8 m (15 ft 9 in)
Gross weight: 17,600 kg (38,801 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 25,000 kg (55,115 lb)
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 1.8
Service ceiling: 16 km (52, 493 ft)
G-load: +9/-3 g
Combat radius: 1,200 km (647 nmi)

 

[flateric]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

What makes this list of paper so 'official'?

 

[stealthflanker]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

What makes this list of paper so 'official'?

Well sorry. i exaggerated.

That flyer supposedly from Shenyang's promotional material. That surfaced before the opening of the Beijing Aviation Expo.

 

[totoro]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

That may very well be official, as the figures are basically the same as ones Avic offered as estimates back at 2012 zhuhai. Only notable difference is that range radius estimate was 1250 km and gross weight was 100 kg less.

 

[flateric]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Raw Google translation

Falcon Hawk aircraft is developed for the international market demand fourth-generation medium-sized multi-role fighter, excellent overall operational effectiveness, with independent intellectual property rights. Single-seat aircraft falcon eagle, double, double camber good tail, all-moving horizontal tail of the normal layout, arranged on both sides of a large S shaped inlet, buried inside the weapons bay configuration. Main features: a) high viability, low radar detectability, low infrared radiation characteristics, superior performance electronic warfare, low vulnerability design; strong b) multi-tasking capabilities of the target detection and external information kept in the dark and a comprehensive income sharing capabilities, BVR multi-hit and large off-axis angle Chun Doo-air combat capability of ground and surface targets Hui precision strike capability to adapt to complex weather conditions and wide geographical use Dragon Force; c) excellent comprehensive support capabilities; d) high cost-effective. Mainly, a) propulsion system that uses two high-performance small state, Han was ratio turbofan engine, the maximum thrust 88.29 kN, b), mission systems, the use of open architecture, can be equipped with advanced radar, photoelectric detection systems, integrated communications and navigation systems and electronic warfare systems to identify, systems integration degree high scalability; c) types of advanced weapon system empty, empty surface weapons, and equipped with a gun; d) aircraft management system. To digital. Flight carved into extra degree integrated control as the core, all flight safety critical and related functions; e) 0 to integrated control electromechanical systems management and energy management as a core integrated electromechanical system after the main parameters: captain wingspan machine height m maximum normal takeoff weight 25000kg 17500kg maximum takeoff weight M number Maximum overload + 9 / -3 g machine oil combat radius of 1200 km takeoff distance 400 m away from the landing roll the largest cut capacity aircraft linked life 6000-8000 / 30

 

[Triton]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

"Shenyang FC-31 fighter performance 'leaked' online"
Richard D Fisher Jr, Washington, DC - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
20 September 2015

Source:
http://www.janes.com/article/54677/shenyang-fc-31-fighter-performance-leaked-online

The posting on Chinese websites of possible performance data for the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) FC-31 fifth-generation fighter indicates it could pose a commercial threat to Western and Russian fighter manufacturers.

A modified version of SAC's J-31 technology development fighter, an FC-31 model made its second appearance at the Beijing Air Show in mid-September. However, as at its debut appearance at the November 2014 Airshow China at Zhuhai, the Aviation Industries Corporation of China (AVIC) did not provide data on the aircraft.

On 15 September FC-31 performance data was posted anonymously online. The data reads like descriptive information intended for internal Chinese distribution and was apparently deemed not sensitive enough to be deleted by China's formidable internet censors. Other sources suggest it could have been released at the Beijing Air Show.

Apparently semi-approved internet revelations of otherwise classified data happen frequently, as the J-31's gradual revelation from 2010 to 2012 illustrate. However, the unofficial nature of such data deservedly prompts questions about its credibility.

For example, in the absence of more data on the FC-31's true empty weight, internal fuel capacity, and engine efficiency, some Chinese observers questioned claims that the "internal fuel combat radius" for a fighter of its size could be as much as 1,200 km.

However, the reported maximum engine thrust figure of "88.29 kn" or 9 tons, does conform with statements made by Chinese officials to IHS Jane's at the 2015 Paris Air Show that China was testing a new 9-ton medium thrust turbofan on the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation FC-1/JF-17 fighter. Thought to be an improved version of the WS-13 Taishan turbofan reportedly developed from the Russian Klimov 8.29-ton thrust RD-33 turbofan, it will power versions of the single-engine FC-1 and the twin-engine FC-31.

The data posted online describes the FC-31 as "designed for high survivability, low radar detectability, low IR (infrared) signature, and excellent capabilities for electronic counter measures".

 

[FighterJock]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

"Shenyang FC-31 fighter performance 'leaked' online"
Richard D Fisher Jr, Washington, DC - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
20 September 2015

Source:
http://www.janes.com/article/54677/shenyang-fc-31-fighter-performance-leaked-online

The posting on Chinese websites of possible performance data for the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) FC-31 fifth-generation fighter indicates it could pose a commercial threat to Western and Russian fighter manufacturers.

A modified version of SAC's J-31 technology development fighter, an FC-31 model made its second appearance at the Beijing Air Show in mid-September. However, as at its debut appearance at the November 2014 Airshow China at Zhuhai, the Aviation Industries Corporation of China (AVIC) did not provide data on the aircraft.

On 15 September FC-31 performance data was posted anonymously online. The data reads like descriptive information intended for internal Chinese distribution and was apparently deemed not sensitive enough to be deleted by China's formidable internet censors. Other sources suggest it could have been released at the Beijing Air Show.

Apparently semi-approved internet revelations of otherwise classified data happen frequently, as the J-31's gradual revelation from 2010 to 2012 illustrate. However, the unofficial nature of such data deservedly prompts questions about its credibility.

For example, in the absence of more data on the FC-31's true empty weight, internal fuel capacity, and engine efficiency, some Chinese observers questioned claims that the "internal fuel combat radius" for a fighter of its size could be as much as 1,200 km.

However, the reported maximum engine thrust figure of "88.29 kn" or 9 tons, does conform with statements made by Chinese officials to IHS Jane's at the 2015 Paris Air Show that China was testing a new 9-ton medium thrust turbofan on the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation FC-1/JF-17 fighter. Thought to be an improved version of the WS-13 Taishan turbofan reportedly developed from the Russian Klimov 8.29-ton thrust RD-33 turbofan, it will power versions of the single-engine FC-1 and the twin-engine FC-31.

The data posted online describes the FC-31 as "designed for high survivability, low radar detectability, low IR (infrared) signature, and excellent capabilities for electronic counter measures".

So no word on the re-design of the FC-31 yet?

 

[Grey Havoc]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/09/us-china-military-idUSKCN0S30WQ20151009

 

[Sundog]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

So no word on the re-design of the FC-31 yet?

The redesign was shown in model from at the last show there. I think there are pics up thread.

 

[quellish]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

It has already been noted elsewhere that the RCS reductions are not baked into the airframe but a "topcoat" put onto the skin

That is not an accurate statement.
The RCS is primarily driven by shaping. Shaping is the outer mold line, which is definitely "baked in" to the design.


Radar absorbant materials are, typically, multiple layers applied to the aircraft. The layer closest to the skin of the aircraft is conductive, with layers of absorbing material on top of that, followed by an IR topcoat. On the F-35 the inner most conductive layer is part of the structure - this is important but does not itself result in a lower RCS. The F-35 has layers of RAM and IR topcoat on top of that, like other aircraft.

 

[sublight_]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!


Meant RCS reduction "material".

 

[Blitzo]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

Source:
http://www.janes.com/article/54677/shenyang-fc-31-fighter-performance-leaked-online

Quote
....FC-31 fifth-generation fighter indicates it could pose a commercial threat to Western and Russian fighter manufacturers.

I'm sorry, I don’t buy this at all. If history is any indication, this platform will have the same sophistication and innovation as a long string of knockoff cars and handbags has had before it. EVEN IF many of the elements of the design data were garnered by illicit means, there are not hundreds of thousands of engineers with millions of man hours of experience that it takes to get all the sophisticated systems to work in an extremely effective manner. It has already been noted elsewhere that the RCS reductions are not baked into the airframe but a "topcoat" put onto the skin. This thing is not so much an F-35 but more of a "Shuanghuan SCEO" of the sky. It's like the Foxbat estimations all over again, but at least the MiG design bureau had a proven track record for innovation.

I don't think anyone believes FC-31 will single handedly dominate the international fighter market, but at present it is the only other stealth fighter proposal with a flying airframe on the export market outside of F-35...


It really depends on how much the Chinese military itself chooses to invest into development of the FC-31 proposal for a domestic medium weight stealth fighter -- the airframe at present is relatively empty and is using interim, previous generation engines. If the military chooses to integrate export cleared, J-20 class avionics onto it and invest in a new engine, it could definitely cut itself a small, neat slice of market share from some western and russian aircraft manufacturers in coming years. Hell, I think even an FC-31 with only 4.5+ generation avionics could also find itself attractive for customers.

 

[sublight_]

Re: Shenyang J-21 / J-31 revealed!

... at present it is the only other stealth fighter proposal with a flying airframe on the export market outside of F-35...

I find it incredibly far beyond plausibility that they could go from producing Russian fighter copies to fifth generation fighters in one fantastic leap. Stolen plans to the Death Star or not, it is just unbelievable.