Shenyang / Chengdu "6th Gen" Aircraft - News and Analysis

The Raptor is also capable of ground strikes. Would you consider the Raptor multirole then?
Yes.

While the F-35 is primarily strike, to the extent that I'd expect the PLAAF to use the JH prefix.

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I expect that the J-36 is primarily an interceptor that traded dogfight maneuverability for better stealth, with secondary ground-attack mission courtesy of large weapons bays.
 
From Bill Sweetman
Why does he speculate the gross weight to be 25t? That seems a bit small doesn't it? Haven't we seen it to be roughly flanker sized, he seemingly likened it to a Eurofighter typhoon.
 
I expect that the J-36 is primarily an interceptor that traded dogfight maneuverability for better stealth, with secondary ground-attack mission courtesy of large weapons bays.

Better stealth than what? A barn door? An F-117?
 
LMAO

A good way to gauge if somebody is coping is to think what would happen if the situation was reversed.

Imagine if the US flew 2 mature looking 6th gen prototypes and the Chinese reaction was "we actually flew a 6th gen 5 years ago" when nobody had seen it and the project was in "deep review". Imagine the Chinese government and newspapers attempted to name the aircraft bombers to somehow belittle them, argued that China not showing its aircraft was an evidence for it going better, or wrote that the USA was weaker for flying its 6th gens.

China would be a joke and rightfully so.
 
Presumably meant Scott Kenny better stealth than a 'J-36' optimised for supermanoeuvrability (instead of optimised for stealth).
Exactly.

Better stealth than something that big but optimized for supermaneuverability, with canards and vertical stabilizers and high angle vectored thrust. So arguably, better stealth than the J-20.
 
That's a shame, although the real photo does show the Fencer vibe around the nose still.

Doubt it's a SLAR in there. Long range AESA I guess. And a damn sight more wing than a Fencer.
 
Not by me, nor probably by any of the posters here.

Big canards and thrust vectoring nozzles implies high maneuverability.

Unfortunately, there were quite a few posts here that were like that (not 5th gen, nothing aerodynamically innovative, copied from others, actually a bomber). We even had posts in the Su-57 thread claiming that the aircraft used the internal structure of the Su-27...

Fundamentally, there is always noise. We just need to learn how to filter it out.

Honestly, sometimes I feel like an early look-down-shoot-down radar.
 
You can tell since the rear landing gears are tilted when it's under zero pressure.
Well, it's not on ground, so zero pressure that way, but there'll be aerodynamic pressure from hanging there in the slipstream, and potential mechanical pressure depending on what's pushing on what internally.
 
So I tried doing something but I'm not sure how accurate it is so I want your opinion on it.

Using paralay's drawing for this, hope it's ok for me to use it.

The dual windows on either cheek have been bugging me since I saw them so I tried to see how viable they would be if they are IRST windows as I think they might be. My logic is since a single IRST sensor isn't capable of producing weapons grade triangulated tracks then maybe the J-36 uses dual IRST apertures to triangulate the bearing, range and altitude of an aerial target thus allowing it the ability to target an enemy aircraft completely passively.

Using paralay's drawings, I was able to come up with this:

1737488143334.png

If the windows actually house IRST sensors in either side then it will allow the J-36 approximately a 90° arc (Red shaded arc) to detect aerial targets. Furthermore if the target is within the central 10° arc (Yellow shaded arc) then the aircraft will be able to not only detect the target but triangulate it's bearing, range and altitude through only passive IR emissions, allowing the jet to engage targets in complete stealth.

Considering that the Gripen-E has a claimed 300km to 500km detection range for an aerial target with its IRST but requires another Gripen to triangulate the track, a J-36 with such a capability will be very difficult problem to deal with.

Do you guys think this is a capability that the J-36 has or do you think that this is something different?
 
So I tried doing something but I'm not sure how accurate it is so I want your opinion on it.

Using paralay's drawing for this, hope it's ok for me to use it.

The dual windows on either cheek have been bugging me since I saw them so I tried to see how viable they would be if they are IRST windows as I think they might be. My logic is since a single IRST sensor isn't capable of producing weapons grade triangulated tracks then maybe the J-36 uses dual IRST apertures to triangulate the bearing, range and altitude of an aerial target thus allowing it the ability to target an enemy aircraft completely passively.

Using paralay's drawings, I was able to come up with this:

View attachment 756923

If the windows actually house IRST sensors in either side then it will allow the J-36 approximately a 90° arc (Red shaded arc) to detect aerial targets. Furthermore if the target is within the central 10° arc (Yellow shaded arc) then the aircraft will be able to not only detect the target but triangulate it's bearing, range and altitude through only passive IR emissions, allowing the jet to engage targets in complete stealth.

Considering that the Gripen-E has a claimed 300km to 500km detection range for an aerial target with its IRST but requires another Gripen to triangulate the track, a J-36 with such a capability will be very difficult problem to deal with.

Do you guys think this is a capability that the J-36 has or do you think that this is something different?
Side detection could potentially be far larger if the sensors are mounted on a gimble to allow movement...
 
Side detection could potentially be far larger if the sensors are mounted on a gimble to allow movement...
If there are going to be sensors mounted in there they will most likely be mounted on gimbals. I also have probably assumed the sensor size to be much bigger because of the resolution of the image, however if the windows in the drawing are fairly accurate then there's not much wiggle room to cram more FOV especially in the frontal arc. I'd have mounted the IRSTs on the top and bottom of the nose to allow for a much bigger FOV and targeting arc but I'm not sure as to what else they have in mind for the J-36's windows if not for binocular IRST sensors.
 
I would think the two sensors would be too close together to accurately do that, and it's twice as much weight and space for no added detection range. But you're definitely thinking creatively.
The sensors are about 2m apart and with accurate enough optronics they very well might be able to generate tracks with low single digit meter precision in good conditions, if not less. They're probably going to be accurate enough for a modern active radar homing missile to be able to close in and then use its onboard radar to go pitbull. Plus with the size of the thing it should be able to accommodate two IRST sensors, it surely seems to have the power for them.
 
The sensors are about 2m apart
A 40' target at 30 miles is only 0.0144 degrees wide.

Sensors 6' apart aimed at the exact same point 30 miles out are going to form an angle of 0.0021 at the target end.

The farther away the target, the bigger the baseline between the optics need to be to accurately determine range.
 
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I would think if the goal was triangulation that the position of the sensors would be different to allow for more overlap in the frontal arc.

ETA: as an example there is some speculation that the F-22s new IRST pods are used this way.
 
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If a radar is installed at the nose position, the diameter may exceed 2 meters. This is a big RCS
Physical size of airframe has very little to do with radar cross section. You can make small objects reflect a lot of energy and you can make large objects reflect very little.

For example, sailboats usually wear auxiliary radar reflectors, as do submarines.
 
Physical size of airframe has very little to do with radar cross section. You can make small objects reflect a lot of energy and you can make large objects reflect very little.

For example, sailboats usually wear auxiliary radar reflectors, as do submarines.
we are talking about nose radar here. The shape and structure of nose radar in all countries are similar, and it is not possible to do stealth modification
 
Sure it is.

You angle the antenna and bulkhead.
after everyone has done so, RCS only depends on the area.
a 2-meter diameter radar means 4 times the area, 4 times the power consumption, 4 times the heat dissipation requirements, and 4 times RCS, compared to current fighter jets
16 times that of the Rafale
 
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after everyone has done so, RCS only depends on the area.
a 2-meter diameter radar means 4 times the area, 4 times the power consumption, 4 times the heat dissipation requirements, and 4 times RCS, compared to current fighter jets
16 times that of the Rafale
If you've got the bulkhead and antenna angled correctly, the total amount being reflected back towards the emitter is zero.
 
If you've got the bulkhead and antenna angled correctly, the total amount being reflected back towards the emitter is zero.
The single machine head discussed here. You can't always maintain the correct direction.
Removing the vertical tail of Gen 6 means that the side RCS of Gen 5 is still very large
Incomplete invisibility is equivalent to complete visibility.
that's su57
 
The single machine head discussed here. You can't always maintain the correct direction.
Removing the vertical tail of Gen 6 means that the side RCS of Gen 5 is still very large
Incomplete invisibility is equivalent to complete visibility.
that's su57
That statement says you don't understand stealth.
 
we are talking about nose radar here. The shape and structure of nose radar in all countries are similar, and it is not possible to do stealth modification
Look up "frequency selective radome" for starters and stop pronouncing on matters you're clearly underinformed on please.
 
If the AESA is inside a frequency selective radome, it is concealed behind the radome to all radar frequencies except the one used by the radar inside.

Hughes figured out how to make stealthy antennas and radomes for TACIT BLUE in the early 80s. Try reading a book or two?

.....and now back to topic.
 

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