Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"

Not much response to my query on the Libyan evacuation. One of the responders who was working in the Libyan desert in 2010 just before the balloon went up, made a very valid point. On reading the post, he pointed out that on the rigsite he was on in Libya there were probably less than 10 ex-pats (2 x drilling supervisors, 1 x mud man, 1 x geologist, possibly 2 x directional drillers on his site) mostly Dutch and British.

If you've never seen a CV-22 or MV-22 Osprey or even aware of their existence, they would be a strange air vehicle. Plenty of room for a squad and able to recover all the expats from two rigs.

Any Marine Corps assets in the area at the time? Probably yes.

Chris
 
CJGibson said:
If you've never seen a CV-22 or MV-22 Osprey or even aware of their existence, they would be a strange air vehicle. Plenty of room for a squad and able to recover all the expats from two rigs.
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Yep, V-22 was my thought for 'strange air vehicle' too. Easy to forget that the average person doesn't know much more about aircraft than the difference between an Airbus, a helicopter, and a fighter jet.
 
quellish said:
sublight said:
Regardless of how odd it looks, thousands of people saw the craft in that picture. It matches up rather nicely with what stargazer posted.
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Thousands of people have seen Elvis, that doesn't mean it was him.

And what would be the reasoning behind the bright lights on it? To blind anyone it might land on?
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Pardon the egregiously late response, I basically just joined, but Compass Ghost Yehudi lights counter-illumination at full power?

If I was messing around with a stealth VTOL transport I'd make sure I added counter illumination for secrecy from observers not cleared for it. Active use has been around forever, since WW2 in fact on ASW aircraft, and I'd automate it. Sensors on one side of the airframe controlling just how bright the lights on the opposite side would be.

(edited to fix camo name. Compass Ghost is a sprayed on RAM treatment, not optical lighting!)
 
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RetiredAFGuy said:
One thing I've learned since retiring from the USAF is that when old GI's get together, they talk about their time in service and a lot of interesting information can be heard. File these two anecdotes under GI War Stories, but what if they point to the existence of Senior Citizen?

1) A conversation with another retired GI who had been Special Forces and the subject came to "What do you miss the most about your service time?" Answer: "Jumping HALO, especially out of Black Betty." A response to a puzzled look was "Stealth planes don't just drop bombs, but I've said too much."

Either it was a reference to doing jumps from a B-2 bomb bay or a reference to a stealth transport.

2) A story from the collapse of Libya. The UK had an oil exploration crew operating a rig in southern Libya and wanted to evacuate them before rebel forces decided they could use hostage westerners or the spectacle of westerners being publicly executed.

The UK had the forces to do the job (SAS), but no effective way to get them to/from the oil rig. So a request was made to the US for assistance in transport.

The point of the story was the absolute shock by the drill crew when two unknown air vehicles landed next to the drilling complex and disgorged SAS troops that evacuated the 70+ drill crew team. Supposedly all the evacuated workers were briefed on and signed Official Secrets Act documents after landing at a safe air base well out of Libya.

Nothing concrete in either story, but very possibly some trails that could be explored by skilled researchers on the board.
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Hmmm interesting what your retired SF buddy says about 'Black Betty' , when was in the service?

laughingly anyone seen The Presidents Man with Chuck Norris , where he uses a F-117A as stealth transport by jumping out of the bomb bay

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJcJOJzRWSA


They probably took the idea from Executive Decision 'Ramora F-117A carrying cast - Steven Seagal, Kurt Russell, Joe Morton, BD Wong, Oliver Pratt, Whip Hubley et al

cheers
 
TomS said:
Half-models like this are pretty common for wind-tunnel testing. This approach lets your model be much closer to full-scale, which makes it more accurate.
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I guess, that also seen photos of similar "half-models". Although, now I'm trying to figure out - how the boundary layer (that has been formed on the floor) inflence on the overall aerodynamic characteristics calcualted?

There were a lot of large wind tunnels, that offering a very large scale models researches.

Perhaps, purpose of this "half-models" is not in the full repalcement of complete models tests, but in the measuring of specific changes of already tested models? Say, the changes in controls' size and angles, or various additions - like pods, fairings etc.?
 
Silencer1 said:
I guess, that also seen photos of similar "half-models". Although, now I'm trying to figure out - how the boundary layer (that has been formed on the floor) inflence on the overall aerodynamic characteristics calcualted?

There were a lot of large wind tunnels, that offering a very large scale models researches.

Perhaps, purpose of this "half-models" is not in the full repalcement of complete models tests, but in the measuring of specific changes of already tested models? Say, the changes in controls' size and angles, or various additions - like pods, fairings etc.?
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There's an entire body of literature out there about how to account for boundary layer effects, including the use of specialized mounting systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peniche_(fluid_dynamics).
 
Thank you to pointing me to this article!
Seems, that my previous suggestions were icorrect. At least, now I understand, that aerodynamists already solved how to take in account influence of wall for half-models.
 
Not exactly stealthy but out of this weeks annual Army Aviation Association of America - Quad-A event in Denver is shortlist of DARPA V-22 replacement in this case high speed VTOL design

DARPA VTOL Down Select Expected In Weeks As Designs Mature | Aviation Week Network

DARPA is likely to make a down select for a high-speed vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) prototype program within weeks.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com

IMG_1619.jpeg

Any thoughts please cheers ?
 
USAF Inc. will love it! Not a propeller in sight. Only challenge I can think of is the potential downwash velocity. If you don't like CV-22 downwash you really are not going to like this. That may not be a concern if it also has appropriate sensors to see through the dust and/or snow storms created.
 
Interesting images in the thread - none of these looked like the stealth VS/TOL prototypes I saw in outstate Minnesota in February 1989. I get the idea they were prototypes that didn't meet spec or didn't do what they hoped. All I know is it was the "coolest" aviation related thing I personally witnessed. I just wish my drawings of the birds were better.
 
aliensporebomb said:
I just wish my drawings of the birds were better.
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Have you ever shared them on the forum?

aliensporebomb said:
Interesting images in the thread - none of these looked like the stealth VS/TOL prototypes I saw in outstate Minnesota in February 1989.
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Have you taken a look at the images in the SOFTA thread, just in case?
 
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I'll look at your link.

Here's my hand drawing. Sighting: February 14, 1989 eastern outskirts of Biscay, Minnesota. So 36 years ago?
https://imgur.com/gallery/unknown-aircraft-spotted-2-14-89-biscay-minnesota-8JOXHvI

The problem is the fuselage looks lumpy in my drawing but asking me to draw "facets" is a tall order. Fuselage is longer so stretch it a bit - the "underside" view is more accurate at least proportionally.

Aircraft had a number of features I've never seen in an aircraft before and the only reason I was able to get the detail I did was the spill of a sodium vapor streetlight as they flew over. Weird downwardly canted conical tailplanes and similarly weird rounder "beaver tail" canted outwards up topside.

Twin yellow lights shining downwards at the rear of the wing. Red turning beacon under the short-ish nose. Typical green/red
wingtip lights.

When I first saw them they were hovering over a field or moving very slowly from the northwest and slowly started heading forwards when we stopped to see what this was.

Very quiet - low muted jet engine sound as it went over. As they did, they turned to the southeast, it seemed to me that another engine was ramping up internally as they moved forward more rapidly and headed to the southeast.

My next door neighbor at the time had been a pilot for Northwest Airlines for many years and when I asked him about that location
he said it was a location that was used for aircraft transiting from one area of the country to another.

I also managed to relay a message to Jim Goodall via Steve Douglass and his comments were that there were VS/TOL prototypes
being tested in "the midwest and Michigan". He also stated I was very fortunate to see them.

Since that day I've seen reports from two other people who spotted the same or similar aircraft, one was in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey not far from McGuire AFB, the other sighting I read about I'd need to look up in my records but was in the upper midwest somewhere if I remember right.

Given that it's going onto 40 years I'm guessing it didn't pass muster but it sure was neat to see something like that now that I look back. Rural Minnesota is about as far from the Antelope Valley area as you can get.
 
aliensporebomb said:
I'll look at your link.

Here's my hand drawing. Sighting: February 14, 1989 eastern outskirts of Biscay, Minnesota. So 36 years ago?
https://imgur.com/gallery/unknown-aircraft-spotted-2-14-89-biscay-minnesota-8JOXHvI

The problem is the fuselage looks lumpy in my drawing but asking me to draw "facets" is a tall order. Fuselage is longer so stretch it a bit - the "underside" view is more accurate at least proportionally.

Aircraft had a number of features I've never seen in an aircraft before and the only reason I was able to get the detail I did was the spill of a sodium vapor streetlight as they flew over. Weird downwardly canted conical tailplanes and similarly weird rounder "beaver tail" canted outwards up topside.

Twin yellow lights shining downwards at the rear of the wing. Red turning beacon under the short-ish nose. Typical green/red
wingtip lights.

When I first saw them they were hovering over a field or moving very slowly from the northwest and slowly started heading forwards when we stopped to see what this was.

Very quiet - low muted jet engine sound as it went over. As they did, they turned to the southeast, it seemed to me that another engine was ramping up internally as they moved forward more rapidly and headed to the southeast.

My next door neighbor at the time had been a pilot for Northwest Airlines for many years and when I asked him about that location
he said it was a location that was used for aircraft transiting from one area of the country to another.

I also managed to relay a message to Jim Goodall via Steve Douglass and his comments were that there were VS/TOL prototypes
being tested in "the midwest and Michigan". He also stated I was very fortunate to see them.

Since that day I've seen reports from two other people who spotted the same or similar aircraft, one was in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey not far from McGuire AFB, the other sighting I read about I'd need to look up in my records but was in the upper midwest somewhere if I remember right.

Given that it's going onto 40 years I'm guessing it didn't pass muster but it sure was neat to see something like that now that I look back. Rural Minnesota is about as far from the Antelope Valley area as you can get.
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Thanks a lot for the drawings and your testimony!
 

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