Saab Gripen E/F (Gripen NG)

[WatcherZero]

They bought 36 Gripens for $5bn including setting up local assembly then added another 4. However Brazilian government are short of money due to slowing economy so are considering second hand F-16 C/D despite their inferiority as they could be at a bargain basement price. (Argentina bought 24 for just $300m)

 

[Archibald]

Funny to think that in the end, Brazil got (or will get)
- second hand Mirage 2000s
- "fresh" Gripens
- second hand F-16s
Their museum will look nice, someday.

 

[FighterJock]

So Brazil will purchase old F-16s for similar to what Argentina did which was $300m and leave the Gripen purchase at 36 by the looks of things because of the economy is not going so well now.

 

[Archibald]

There are bazillions of second-hand F-16s available on the market. Such as those, ex- USAF, stored at Davis Monthan. Or leftovers from Europe: 348 procured 50 years ago, 315 brought to MLU 25 years ago.
Think we will see more and more deals like that. Which will probably finish to bury Gripen exports, as much as F-35 did.
South America is one of those lucky places not immediately threatened by the "usual suspects" a) China b) Russia c) crazy whacky Middleast.

 

[gral_rj]

What is wrong with the Gripens? I thought that they had agreed to purchase them at a fair price originally?

Nothing. The problem is the Brazilian government has no money, and the military is a prime target for 'cutting costs'. Since there is a non-insignificant choice the Armed Forces would mutiny if the cutting falls on their pensions, onto equipment it goes.

Mind you, I'm not quite sure this will go on - the news may very well been leaked as form of pressure against cutting Gripen acquisitions, and there always is the option of 'buying neither', if things are truly dire. But the government is feeling the pinch...

 

[Scott Kenny]

What is wrong with the Gripens? I thought that they had agreed to purchase them at a fair price originally?

Nothing wrong with the planes, but used F-16s are dang near "Free to a good home"

 

[Maro.Kyo]

second hand Mirage 2000s

I think they're already retired quite long ago.

There are bazillions of second-hand F-16s available on the market. Such as those, ex- USAF, stored at Davis Monthan. Or leftovers from Europe: 348 procured 50 years ago, 315 brought to MLU 25 years ago.

The thing is though, some air forces require fresher airplanes, like Korea for example. During the delays concerning KF-X decisions, they were actively looking around for used Falcons and Hornets as a stop gap, but every available airframes were deemed too old/fatigued. Must be the case for severl other AF as well.

So not every AF would be looking for those used aircrafts, only the most broke ones.

Mind you, I'm not quite sure this will go on - the news may very well been leaked as form of pressure against cutting Gripen acquisitions, and there always is the option of 'buying neither', if things are truly dire. But the government is feeling the pinch...

That must be truly dire situations though, considering the fact that their Mirage IIIs were already retired without proper replacement (apart from the second hand Mirage 2000s that were only just a stop gap). From what I understand, their first batch of Gripens are meant to replace F-5, so still no replacement for M IIIs.

Brazilian AF were talking about a likely second batch (AMX replacement) with a possible third batch (fill the gap the Mirage III retirement has left) and now I don't see the F-5s and AMX not getting replaced.

South America is one of those lucky places not immediately threatened by the "usual suspects" a) China b) Russia c) crazy whacky Middleast.

Then again, they don't need any SSNs (or any aircraft carriers or air defence ships) if we simply consider their regional peers. What Brazil really wants is to become a regional power with force projection capability. It just hasn't gone their way until now because there has been a lack of fundamentals (economics) but we'll see how it pans put in the coming decades.

Anyhow, even if they get the second-hand falcons, they'll eventually beed a replacement sooner than the Gripens.

 

[snne]

Funny to think that in the end, Brazil got (or will get)
- second hand Mirage 2000s
- "fresh" Gripens
- second hand F-16s
Their museum will look nice, someday.

It already does, tbh.

 

[snne]

So Brazil will purchase old F-16s for similar to what Argentina did which was $300m and leave the Gripen purchase at 36 by the looks of things because of the economy is not going so well now.

I know that the Gripens were originally procured to replace the F-5s, but having the second hand F-16s as replacement makes sense in the short to possibly medium term if your goal is to pump up the available BVR capable airframe numbers (if you were senslng the tensions heating up?).

immediately threatened by the "usual suspects" a) China b) Russia c) crazy whacky Middleast.

Gee, I wonder why the Middle East is/has always been so "crazy whacky" (!)

 

[gral_rj]

That must be truly dire situations though, considering the fact that their Mirage IIIs were already retired without proper replacement (apart from the second hand Mirage 2000s that were only just a stop gap). From what I understand, their first batch of Gripens are meant to replace F-5, so still no replacement for M IIIs.

Brazilian AF were talking about a likely second batch (AMX replacement) with a possible third batch (fill the gap the Mirage III retirement has left) and now I don't see the F-5s and AMX not getting replaced.

Strictly speaking, the first Gripen batch is replacing the Mirage IIIs - 1st Air Defense Group at Anápolis is the unit receiving them. Second batch would go to a F-5 unit. Problem is that, as usual in the Brazilian Armed Forces, everything needs replacement now. AIUI, numbers(66 airframes, IIRC) would partially cover the Mirage and F-5 fleet(to replace everything, there would need to be some 100-120 airframes, if I'm remembering right).

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Strictly speaking, the first Gripen batch is replacing the Mirage IIIs - 1st Air Defense Group at Anápolis is the unit receiving them. Second batch would go to a F-5 unit. Problem is that, as usual in the Brazilian Armed Forces, everything needs replacement now. AIUI, numbers(66 airframes, IIRC) would partially cover the Mirage and F-5 fleet(to replace everything, there would need to be some 100-120 airframes, if I'm remembering right).

Oh, I see. Though one way or the other, the thing is that there's a capability gap that was left/will be left after the retirements.

I don't think that all the legacy squadron needs a 1-to-1 replacement, since Gripens are much more capable aircrafts compared to anything it is replacing + the potential peers in the region stagnated/regressed in terms of military capability. Though in terms of pure quantity, I think they want to keep at least 70-80 aircraft-strong fleet.