Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers

[JAZZ]

The Soviets had a number of stilborn aircraft carrier projects from the 1930's all the way through to the 1990's.

One of the most studied was Project-72 dating back to WW-II (1943) I think. Other projects include Project-69A, Project-85 and Project 1123 (Moskova concepts) before getting to the P1153 Orel, P1160 and then the Kiev, Kuznetsov, and Ulyanvosk. Only current carrier under construction is the rebuild of A Gorshkov for the Indian Navy

 

[smurf]

There is too much on all these to re-post here. Anyone interested "search" on
http://www.phpbbplanet.com/warshipprojects/index.php?mforum=warshipprojects
[there is a Russian Navy section, but stuff also gets into the "Own Designs" and Real Ships and other discussions.]
Do not miss the "Wunderwaffe" links. Excellent drawings.

 

[JAZZ]

The Soviets were worked on developing aircraft carrier concepts through the 1950-60s. Here is the Project -85 from the early 60's and Project 1160 from the early 1970s.

 

[gral_rj]

Is that picture of Project 85 from the Morskaya Kollektsiya magazine?

 

[gollevainen]

I think that its the Jazz himself that have done the colouring...am I right?

Anyway I've been trying to write some sort of summary of the Soviet carrier development, I've actually managed to write the part I & II which covers the pre and post WWII era and as well as the Moskvas and Kievs. I wrote them couple years ago and I've since have had some additional information tough nothing dramatical. Anyway I'm trying to get grib of myself to do the part III which would cover the 1160, 1153, Later Kievs, Khalzan, Kuznetsovs and Ulyanovsk classes...

Part I & II are found in SDF and in Defencetalk forum.

 

[flateric]

They are from Morskaya Kollektsiya
aviable here http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/MK/index.htm

 

[gollevainen]

Could you be more spesific from wich issue? I've tought I've looked them all and not seeing those, but I could be wrong ???

 

[flateric]

Sorry...I was fooled by artist's style - it's definitely is the same artist that makes drawings for Modelist-Konstruktor magazine section that has the same name (Morskaya Kollektziya).

BTW, found interesting site WLFSCD -

Сайт «АТРИНА» • Публикации о кораблях и флотах

Soviet military laser ship, soviet aircraft carriers projects 1920-1955, etc.

 

[JAZZ]

Sorry fellas, the drawings and pic were down loaded from an internet site, the first drawing I have rendered, the second is not so much a rendering, but colouring the orginal existing grey-scale. may be this stuff belongs in the art section??

However, I am very interested in the design linage of soviet/russian carriers. Anything you want rendered??...

 

[gollevainen]

Well 1153 would be nice 8). Anyway I'm currently drawing the pr. 10800 Khalzan class helicoptercarrier for the Mconrads shipbucket site and in future propaply the other soviet carriers as well...

 

[JAZZ]

P1153 there seems to be a few colour and black and white photos of the model. Here is one, so not sure if its worth doing a colour rendering??

Unless their is a graphic you are thinking of and wish to post it and i can see what I can do with it.

Cheers JAZZ

 

[KCX]

(Articles from - http://www.webcom.com/~amraam/rcar.html)

While the Moskvas were revolutionary in the sense that they were the first ships dedicated to carrying an air wing, it was clear that they were insufficient to fulfill the full role of aircraft carriers in fleet operations. The key problem was that they could not effectively provide the fleet with organic fighter cover. The Russian Navy then took the next step, assembling a specification for a new type of ship to carry not only helicopters, but fixed-wing fighter aircraft.
This resulted in the most ambitious design specification for any Russian aircraft carrier to date. Named Project OREL, this nuclear-powered ship would have displaced 80,000 tons and carried seventy conventional (that is, non-vertical takeoff/landing) aircraft. These aircraft would serve in an American-style multipurpose air wing, capable of fulfilling the fighter, attack, and airborne early-warning roles. There were some differences between the OREL vessel and an American supercarrier, primarily in OREL's own battery of dedicated antiship missiles (which continued to appear on Russian carrier designs). However, the philosophies underlying both designs were very similar, a point underscored by an order reportedly from Defense Minister Grechko himself: "Why are you splitting hairs here? Make an aircraft carrier like the Americans have, with that kind of aircraft fleet."

The OREL design never made it to production. Marshal Grechko died and the Defense Ministry was taken over by Marshal Ustinov, who did not share Grechko's enthusiasm for large-deck aircraft carriers. Elements within the Defense Ministry and the Navy itself, who viewed smaller designs which carried vertical takeoff/landing (VTOL) aircraft as superior in terms of cost-effectiveness, intervened to halt the progress of OREL. Instead of a new large carrier design, compromise work was done with the Kiev class of VTOL carriers, which were already beginning to enter service.


P.S : If anybody have BIGGER or BETTER pictures about this Orel class CVN, please post. Because I really need them..... :

 

[KCX]

After the cancellation of Orel class (Project 1160) nuclear powered aircraft carrier, Soviet Navy developed smaller one - which is Sovietski Soyuz class (Project 1153) aircraft carrier.

Her displacement was 60,000 tons, and planned to use MiG-23K.

But several technical mistake/problem of her development & cancellation of MiG-23K resulted her cancellation, too.


P.S : If anybody have BIGGER or BETTER pictures about this Sovietski Soyuz class CVN, please post. Because I really need them..... :

 

[gollevainen]

I think I've got bigger versions of most of those pics, but in my own computer...I'll post them on monday when i'm near it again

 

[gollevainen]

Here's like I promised, all my "big" pics...

 

[Antonio]

Excellent pics, thanks for posting Gollevainen.
The Ivan-Tarawa is new for me, can you give more details about it (project name and date)?

 

[KCX]

Excellent pics, thanks for posting Gollevainen.
The Ivan-Tarawa is new for me, can you give more details about it (project name and date)?

As far as I know, it's Project 11780 landing ship. (I refer it as LPH.)

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,766.15.html

 

[gollevainen]

Well the pr. 11780 is somewhat mystical becouse all we know about it is basicly the project number and that it is some sort of landingship. Some rumours tells that its based on the Khalzan program but the latter was ASW helicopter carrier based on containership hull...

 

[gollevainen]

To add for the list, here's a shipbucket drawing that I made from Khalzan. I'm planning to draw the other soviet "what-if" carriers in similar way alongside my eternityproject of drawing all the soviet ships. If you have linedrawings of rare soviet ships (I mean rare, I already have the most ususals) feel free to send them to me...

 

[Antonio]

I'm planning to draw the other soviet "what-if" carriers

Gollevainen, the drawing represents an unbuilt project (real design) or a "what-if" (not real, design based on fan's imagination)?

 

[gollevainen]

Well both actually. First I draw the unbuild projects as close as possiple to the exiting data and availble reference pics (like Khalzan here) but also various "what-ifs" eg. my own ideas mainly intended for my imaginary Novgorod's fleet which I've created based on never-where and unbuild soviet ships. I will post the "what-ifs" other occasion (as soon as I'm finished it) so all the drawings that I may post in this thread are from real existing designs.

 

[Tuomasn]

Where did the Pr.11780 drawing go? ???
I hadn't yet saved it. :'(
It certainly was a real Soviet project. (I'll post some info later on.)

 

[gollevainen]

There wasen't drawing on 11780, only from the Khalzan which also was a real soviet project. I just posted it accidentaly twice...

 

[Tuomasn]

Okay. I was, eh, in a hurry when I first saw you posts and thought I'd save the pictures in the evening at home - but then the other one had disappeared. I hadn't looked into them closely, also the board's automatic image resizing didn't really help... :-[

Anyway, here's what I have of Pr.11780. Info comes from Google cache of a Russian forum that both have now vanished, from http://forums.airbase.ru/viewtopic.php?id=52349, and from looking at the pictures.

Pr.11780 (Kremenchug ?)

The Pr.11780 was designed in the mid-1980s as a follow-on to the Pr.1174 landing ships, utilizing also design elements from the Pr.10200 and Pr.1143.4 carriers. The ship resembled the American Tarawa class, and was thus sometimes called "Ivan Tarava". The Pr.11780 was a development of the Pr.10200 ASW helicopter carrier. The number of SAM launchers was increased, and the ability to handle V/STOL aircraft was added. The ship had a well deck with bow and aft ramps. The Murena class LCACs were designed for carriage by the Pr.11780. It was to use the boiler and turbine arrangement from Pr.956 destroyers.

Displacement full load, tons: 44,000
Flight deck length, metres: 200
Flight deck width, metres: 25

Missiles:
12 SA-N-9 Gauntlet (RZ-130 Kinzhal) vertical launchers.
2 CADS-N-1 (Kortik).
Guns:
1 AK-130 130 mm/70.
Helicopters:
12 Ka-27/29 Helix.

Air/surface search:
Top Plate (MR-760 Fregat-MA)
Navigation:
3 Palm Frond (Volga)
Fire control:
Cross Sword (MR-360 Podkat)
Kite Screech (MR-123-02)
Tacan:
Cake Stand

 

[gollevainen]

That makes sense. Tough the lenght 200m sounds bit too small given the displacement and the fact that Khalzan is almoust 230 meters and this design looks even bigger.

A full size drawing of the Khalzan can be found on Mconrads http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k279/shipbucket/ site.

If anyone have a linedrawing of the pr. 11780, please send it to me so I can draw similar image from it as well...

 

[Firefly 2]

Why is it that every Russian carrier design I've seen always comes whit its own set of heavy anti ship missiles? Did the " everything missile" dogma imposed by Chroetsjov have such a long reach?

 

[flateric]

Very often in a history of Soviet/Russian shipbuilding (for example, in case of Project 1144 Orlan aka Kirov) such amount of strike weapons onboard caused not by actual fleet needs, but by wish of multiply contractors to have their weapon system(s) be installed on a new ship.

 

[Firefly 2]

Even though they are made redundant because of a fixed wing strike element, gotcha...

 

[gollevainen]

Here's 1153...I propaply should have posted this earlier.

The armament fit is bit optional as I had quite hard time to figure out xactly what was to be fitted to it. The existing linedrawing didn't give much help, it raised more questions than gave awnsers and the pictures of the model were too misty to make anything reasonable out of it. As the drawing is based on the idea that the first 1153 would have been build around the time of the Novorossisk or Baku (The ttz was ade around 1972-3) I adopted pretty much the same armament fit as in those two ships including Kinzhal but not Kortiks.

 

[Triton]

To Be or Not To Be: The Development of Soviet Deck Aviation by Vadim Kolnogorov, of the Central Naval Museum in St. Petersburg, is a very interesting history of Soviet Navy aircraft carriers.
http://yurizhukov.com/files/CWaS_339-359_soviet_naval_aviation.pdf

 

[Triton]

Images of a Project 1123 "Kondor" concept model. Project 1123 "Kondor" would become the Moskva-class helicopter carrier.
http://pilot.strizhi.info/photos/v/NPKB/1123/

 

[Triton]

Images of another Project 1123 "Kondor" concept model.
http://pilot.strizhi.info/photos/v/NPKB/1123/

 

[Triton]

Images of another Project 1123 "Kondor" concept model.
http://pilot.strizhi.info/photos/v/NPKB/1123/

 

[Triton]

Images of a Project 11780 concept model. Project 11780 is also known as "Ivan Tarawa."
http://pilot.strizhi.info/photos/v/NPKB/11780/

 

[Triton]

Additional images of a Project 11780 concept model.

 

[Triton]

Additional images of Project 11780 concept model.

 

[Triton]

Images of a Project 1153 "Orel" concept model.

Project 1153 "Orel" was a 1970s-era Soviet program to give the Soviet Navy a true blue water aviation capability. The ship would have been about 75-80,000 tons displacement, with a nuclear power plant and carried about 70 aircraft launched via steam catapults. It was cancelled as being too expensive and a reduced version of 60,000 tons and fifty aircraft was proposed. This was also turned down for cost reasons.

"Orel" would have resulted in a program very similar to the aircraft carriers available to the U.S. Navy. While the project never saw fruition, it later resulted in the abortive Ulyanovsk program. The name "Orel" means "Eagle," The Russians named all of their major warship classes after birds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_1153_OREL

http://pilot.strizhi.info/photos/v/NPKB/1153/

 

[Triton]

Images of a Project 1143.7 "Orel" concept model or Ul'yanovsk-class heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser.

Ul'yanovsk was the first of a class of Soviet supercarriers which, for the first time, would have offered true blue water aviation capability for the Soviet Navy. This was based upon the 1975 Project 1153 "Orel" (which never went beyond blueprints), and the initial commissioned name was to be Kremlin, but was later given the name Ul'yanovsk,[2] after the Soviet town of Ul'yanovsk, which was in turn named after Vladimir Lenin's original name.

She would have been 85,000 tons in displacement, or more than the older Forrestal-class carriers, but smaller than contemporary Nimitz class carriers of the U.S. Navy. Ulyanovsk would have been able to carry the full range of fixed-wing carrier aircraft, as opposed to the limited scope in which Admiral Kuznetsov makes aircraft available, by way of a ski jump. The configuration would have been very similar to U.S. Navy carriers, though with the typical Soviet twist of adding ASM and SAM launchers. Her hull was laid down in 1988, but the project was cancelled, (at 40% complete) along with a sister ship, in 1991 after the end of the Cold War. Scrapping began on February 4, 1992.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_aircraft_carrier_Ulyanovsk


Designer: Nevskoye Planning and Design Bureau
Builder: Nikolayev South
Length: 1065 feet overall
995 feet waterline
Flight Deck Width: 248.5 feet
Beam: 130.6 feet
Draft: 35.4 feet
Displacement: 79,758 tons Full Load
60,000 tons Standard
Propulsion: PWR nuclear reactors
4 turbines 240,000 shp
Endurance
Max Speed 30+ knots
Crew 2,300 Navy
1,500 Naval Air
Armament
6 x 30mm/65 AK 630
24 VLS ADAM launchers w/192 RZ-130 Kinzhal/Klinok/SA-N-9 Gauntlet missiles
8 CADS-N-1/Kortik each with 1 twin 30mm Gatlingcombined w/ 256 3M-88/SA-N-11 Grison
12 cell VLS installed under the upper deckw/12 P-500 Granit/SS-N-19 Shipwreck missiles
2 RPK-5/Udav-1 Liven integrated ASW

Countermeasures
Sozbezie-BR suite
Wine Glass intercept
Bell Push intercept
Flat Track
Bell Nip
Cross Loop D/F

Radar
Air/Surface Search MR-710 Fregat-MA/Top Plate 3D
2 MR-320M Topaz/Strut Pair 2D

Navigation
3 Palm Frond Fire Control
4 MR-360 Podkat/Cross Sword SA-N-9 control
8 3P37/Hot Flash SA-N-11 control

Aircraft Control
Fly Trap B

Sonar
Zvezda-2 suite
MGK-345 Bronza/Ox Yoke hull mounted

Aircraft
70 aircraft total 27 Su-27K Flankers
10 Su-25 Frogfoots
Yak-44 radar picket aircraft
15-20 helicopters

Laid Down: November 25, 1988
Scrapped: February 4, 1992.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/1143_7-specs.htm

 

[Triton]

Additional images of a Project 1143.7 "Orel" concept model or Ul'yanovsk-class.

 

[Triton]

Proposed full-carrier conversion of Baku later renamed Admiral Gorshkov.