Royal New Zealand Navy loses a ship

[publiusr]

Any parbuckling discussions?

 

[Grey Havoc]

Royal Navy Helps Recover Evidence After Loss of New Zealand Survey Ship

New Zealand has thanked the Royal Navy for its help in responding to the sinking of the survey ship HMNZS Manawanui off Samoa. HMNZS Manawanui ran ag...

maritime-executive.com

Salvage of Lost Survey Ship Will Pause for King Charles' Visit to Samoa

The salvage response to the lost New Zealand Navy survey vessel HMNZS Manawanui will pause for a week while Samoa hosts a high-profile Commonwealth me...

maritime-executive.com

 

[Volkodav]

The problem is that too many times the DEI hiring is decided on "This person checks X census category" BEFORE you ask questions about are they actually competent enough to do the job.

I do not give a fuck about your skin color, who or what you screw, or even who you vote for. "Can you do the job" is the ONLY criteria that matters to me.

Had an E6 in the Navy that could not be sent to work unsupervised, when an E4 straight out of school could be sent to do that job unsupervised. "We can't kick him out, he's black." No, he's a fucking hazard to the ship and everyone onboard.

Keep telling yourself that.

The worst of the worst I ever encountered was an ex warrant officer, he was so bad that rather than have him in a squadron they sent him to a training course for two years to requalify in another field. He built a career out of being so toxic that superiors would give him whatever he wanted just to move him on and make him someone else's problem. He was white, he was straight, very definitely not a DEI hire, in fact, he was one of the jerks gunning for anyone who was even slightly different.

DEI is not the problem and never has been, the issue is some people, traditionally and still usually, white males, are carried and get away with murder. Organisations tolerate poor performance and bad behaviour, they even on occasion cover up the criminal behaviour of those whose faces fit, those they think they want to keep.

These days some diverse individuals who "lean in" are given token privilege, because they mimic the behaviours and suck up to the incompetent old white male bullies who are the gatekeepers. They are then pointed to "Hey look we are diverse, we have a black person, a gay person and a woman". The vast majority however fit the mould of needed not wanted, tolerated not liked.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Keep telling yourself that.

The worst of the worst I ever encountered was an ex warrant officer, he was so bad that rather than have him in a squadron they sent him to a training course for two years to requalify in another field. He built a career out of being so toxic that superiors would give him whatever he wanted just to move him on and make him someone else's problem. He was white, he was straight, very definitely not a DEI hire, in fact, he was one of the jerks gunning for anyone who was even slightly different.

DEI is not the problem and never has been, the issue is some people, traditionally and still usually, white males, are carried and get away with murder. Organisations tolerate poor performance and bad behaviour, they even on occasion cover up the criminal behaviour of those whose faces fit, those they think they want to keep.

These days some diverse individuals who "lean in" are given token privilege, because they mimic the behaviours and suck up to the incompetent old white male bullies who are the gatekeepers. They are then pointed to "Hey look we are diverse, we have a black person, a gay person and a woman". The vast majority however fit the mould of needed not wanted, tolerated not liked.

That E6 damn near killed me. Twice.

So damn straight I have issues with people who need to be fired but aren't, cannot be, because they're a DEI hire and firing them would prove that DEI is a terrible idea.

If you're not competent, get the fuck off my submarine.

 

[Foo Fighter]

To look at 'political hiring/firing' on the basis of one incident is not going to work, there ARE totally ignorant and dangerous people in positions where they can and DO serious harm.

Does this mean every individual of colur or whichever box they live in is such a person? No but beleiving such ignorant hiring does not happen is a fools game. It happens every day.

We had a ?doctor? of Asian Indian descent, put in a position where she was responsible for a program of hiring medical staff from the sub continent. Years later after a scare the documents of these hirings kept on file were checked and it was found that more than half were fraudulent.

People using the certificates of relatives, certificates used that had a grade you do not want in medical or technical staff. Yes F all over the sheets. Not to mention the payments made by candidates to the hirer. These people were hired for years.

I was at one stage of my career, responsible for the safety aspects of an operating theatre suite and adjacent services. A well known surgeon of Chinese descent would go into the recovery area of the surgical department and smoke his cigars. In an O2 rich environment.......

I ponted out that it must stop. Nurses actually defended him (Not mentioning the colour of the chief antagonists, irrelevent). I was told I would be fired if I continued to cause trouble because "You mustn't upset doctors".

We had a little chat which ended up with said surgeon bursting into tears telling me he had to be able to do something for himself and he did not have time to get to a smoking area.

I got it stopped. And, I got fired.

I did the best I could but when I left, whonose?

It does not pay to stick ouir heads in the sand and saying "Lalalalalalalalalala, I can't hear you".

 

[publiusr]

That E6 warrant officer--what kind of shenanigans did he get up to?

 

[DWG]

Royal Navy Helps Recover Evidence After Loss of New Zealand Survey Ship

New Zealand has thanked the Royal Navy for its help in responding to the sinking of the survey ship HMNZS Manawanui off Samoa. HMNZS Manawanui ran ag...

maritime-executive.com

“The phone call from our headquarters was truly shattering,” said Commander Gell.

HMNZS Manawanui has run aground on a reef south of Upolou, they are abandoning ship, make best speed."

There's an order to send a shiver down your spine!

 

[Volkodav]

To look at 'political hiring/firing' on the basis of one incident is not going to work, there ARE totally ignorant and dangerous people in positions where they can and DO serious harm.

Does this mean every individual of colur or whichever box they live in is such a person? No but beleiving such ignorant hiring does not happen is a fools game. It happens every day.

We had a ?doctor? of Asian Indian descent, put in a position where she was responsible for a program of hiring medical staff from the sub continent. Years later after a scare the documents of these hirings kept on file were checked and it was found that more than half were fraudulent.

People using the certificates of relatives, certificates used that had a grade you do not want in medical or technical staff. Yes F all over the sheets. Not to mention the payments made by candidates to the hirer. These people were hired for years.

I was at one stage of my career, responsible for the safety aspects of an operating theatre suite and adjacent services. A well known surgeon of Chinese descent would go into the recovery area of the surgical department and smoke his cigars. In an O2 rich environment.......

I ponted out that it must stop. Nurses actually defended him (Not mentioning the colour of the chief antagonists, irrelevent). I was told I would be fired if I continued to cause trouble because "You mustn't upset doctors".

We had a little chat which ended up with said surgeon bursting into tears telling me he had to be able to do something for himself and he did not have time to get to a smoking area.

I got it stopped. And, I got fired.

I did the best I could but when I left, whonose?

It does not pay to stick ouir heads in the sand and saying "Lalalalalalalalalala, I can't hear you".

Incompetence, corruption and cronyism have never been dictated by race or gender, anyone who believes it is a fool and likely a bigot.

How do morons rise within organisations? Easy, an existing moron who has already made it sees a kindred spirit and pulls them up. How do they survive despite being incompetent, again easy, they are protected. Or perhaps they are desperate, perhaps years of underfunding means there are not enough suitably qualified and experienced people.

How do incompetent people of colour and women get appointed and promoted, easy the same way as incompetent white men are, by those who are already there. Their logic, if they can't have someone the same colour and gender as they are, they will at least have someone with the same flaws.

So how does this happen?

Again easy, it has always happened, there has always been incompetence, corruption and cronyism to varying degrees, those who are protected and carried, those who protect them and those who are forced to carry them. They are the suck-ups, you know, "old toenails" the lovechild, the golden boy, the idiot son or nephew, the trust fund brat, the silver spooner.

The incompetent doctors who almost killed me were old white guys, the doctor who found what they missed was Sri Lankan, the doctor who saved my life was Indian. Does that mean all white doctors are incompetent and all immigrant doctors are competent? No not for one second. What it means is skin colour, race, place of birth or gender doesn't mean shit.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I was told to my face, that we could not write up that E6 for incompetence because he was one of the early USN "see, black people can do anything a white man can" hires. He only got promoted because he stocked up enough passed-the-test-but-didn't-make-the-cutoff-score points.

My very first professional encounter with him was a fire drill. Technically just the initial response teams, the roving watchstanders, simulated fire in the Central Atmospheric Monitoring System (which has a 5000v power supply in it to feed the spectrum analyzer). My guys are all the junior watchstanders, Messenger of the Watch formally speaking. All qualified submariners. I'm the senior guy of that group as an E5. Drill gets called away, we all go bolting out of Control and grab air masks on the way. We all get there and grab big CO2 extinguishers, 35lbs each. Then we all just ground and wait, because there's no point in trying to put out an electrical fire until the power is off. I'm talking to the guys about why we're waiting. We all arrived within like 30 seconds, we didn't have to run that far. About 2 minutes later, this E6 finally shows up. I am expecting him to say, "My name is Petty Officer Cunningham, I am the Man In Charge, power is simulated secured to CAMS, go attack that fire" or something similar.

(Technically, I should have made that announcement myself, since I was the senior man there but we messengers had all arrived in a group and they were already following my orders.)​

What I got was "uh fuh huh, muh fuh."
Excuse me? It's not like he was wearing his air mask. "Say again?"
"uh fuh huh, muh fuh."
Oh, hell no. This is a nightmare, this dude can't tell me anything. "Say again louder and slower?"
"uh fuh huh, muh fuh."
"Cunningham! If power is not simulated secured to CAMS, get your fucking ass back up there and secure it!" In full Command Voice that will be heard over a 747 taking off (yes, I've tested that before).
"uh fuh huh, muh fuh." and he lumbers off (dude was huge, 6'3 and like 275lbs). No sign of hurry.

I look at the Chief electrician's mate and give him a "what the fuck do we do now" expression. It's still useless to attack the fire, electrical fires will not go out till you kill power to it. And it's been simulated burning for about 5 minutes now. Whole compartment would be engulfed in flames at this point.
My padawans were looking at me with huge eyes, finally one of them says "I thought you were going to lay him out with that CO2."
"I wasn't thinking about that, I promise."

It's been a couple minutes, no announcement over the PA system that power has been simulated secured, no sign of the E6. (now that I think about it, no sign of a couple other bodies that should have showed up, either.)

EMC sighs, writes more in his notebook. "Alright, guys, secure this drill and restow all the gear."

"Aye-aye, Chief."

As my padawans and I are leaving, frankly all a bit shell-shocked, "please tell me this isn't normal"...

 

[MrPhantomMan]

Well, anyway. Moving along.

They've stopped the salvage effort while CHOGM is on there as I assume they need the manpower there instead. I'm not sure if they've plugged or stopped the leaks (or if they've just run out of fluid to leak but I doubt that).

 

[GTX]

Enough with the DEI or related off topic comments here. Any future such postings will be deleted and the members issued a warning.

 

[GTX]

Inquiry reveals crew errors sank New Zealand navy ship off Samoa

Mistakes by members of the crew caused a New Zealand navy ship to plough into a reef off the coast of Samoa, where it caught fire and sank, according to the preliminary findings of a military Court of Inquiry.

www.abc.net.au

 

[_Del_]

Rear Admiral Golding said that given human error was identified as the cause, a separate disciplinary process would begin after the inquiry.
Three crew members who were on the bridge as the disaster unfolded were likely to face such a process, Rear Admiral Golding added.
They were the officer in control of the ship, an officer supervising that person, and the ship's commanding officer. The navy chief would not name them.

Oh, ...

 

[MrPhantomMan]

An embarrassing state of affairs.

I am surprised we're letting this fuel leak continue. No wonder the local Samoan chiefs are pissed off at us.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Three crew members who were on the bridge as the disaster unfolded were likely to face such a process, Rear Admiral Golding added.

They were the officer in control of the ship, an officer supervising that person, and the ship's commanding officer. The navy chief would not name them.

Hrm. Not sure I understand the organization at play here. This sounds like they had an officer directly manning the helm (USN would have had an enlisted helmsman), a second officer as Officer of the Deck, and of course the CO is getting fired because her ship ran aground.

Regardless of the CO's competence, her career was over as soon as her ship ran aground. Whether it would have sunk or not.

Training issue then, and not one like the 7th Fleet problems where the ships were supposed to all be on the same version of the control system and were not because the maintenance periods to upgrade kept getting deferred.

I am surprised we're letting this fuel leak continue. No wonder the local Samoan chiefs are pissed off at us.

It does take time to get salvage units to what is frankly kinda the far side of the world from most nautical traffic.

 

[CJGibson]

Some working ship have the helipad above the level of the bridge—the bow looking bulbous.

The last time I saw ships like these outside of documentaries—was in the movie *Ffolkes*.

Not unusual on oilfield dive support vessels and seismic ships.

I'm surprised by this foundering. I was on a ship up around Ellesmere Island in August and in 'uncharted waters' our ship was led by a zodiac with sidescan sonar kit.

Chris

 

[pathology_doc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNx5V4GmSdE

They seem to have spent an inordinate amount of time not realizing they were in autopilot, with the result that it sabotaged their attempts at corrective action.