Project ISINGLASS & Project RHEINBERRY

[Scott Kenny]

Like HAVE BLUE or SENIOR CROWN, I presume ? in contrast with OXCART ? (fastest airbreathing plane - and the computer picked OXCART for codename. Artificial intelligence, my sorry a$$)

I mean, the older codename set was ANGEL for the U2 and ARCHANGEL for A-12 Blackbird.

Though that may have been a shorthand for the requirements more than the actual aircraft... An archangel being faster stronger better than a mere angel.

 

[quellish]

BTW, the cryptonym RHEINBERRY is consistent with the random one word codenames of the CIA and not the two word codenames often found in the USAF. Although there are exceptions to this rule, this has been relatively consistent for decades. Leading me to think that RHEINBERRY was a CIA concept.

The two word names are unclassified nicknames. A program usually has a sensitive code word names and an unclassified nickname as well for use in unclassified contexts.

 

[sublight_]

Unless I have missed it, these are two separate docs with the same diagram, and has anyone requested unredacted versions of these docs so we can see what the five redacted reconnaissance platforms are?

 

[Dynoman]

Sublight, I have made a FOIA request for INSINGLASS and RHEINBERRY, however not those programs that preceded them. Attached is a CIA document from approximately the same time listing some of the aircraft in the diagram. Unfortunately, it would be simply speculation as to what is under each redacted bubble.

 

[quellish]

Sublight, I have made a FOIA request for INSINGLASS and RHEINBERRY, however not those programs that preceded them. Attached is a CIA document from approximately the same time listing some of the aircraft in the diagram. Unfortunately, it would be simply speculation as to what is under each redacted bubble.

You can request the redacted pages of already released documents and request the redactions be reviewed and minimized.

 

[Dynoman]

Thank you, I'll look into contacting them. Hopefully they won't wait a year or more to deliver the unredacted documents.

 

[Archibald]

Good luck folks ! Which I could help with FOIA (I would have tons of NRO / CIA requests) - but I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic ocean.

 

[quellish]

Good luck folks ! Which I could help with FOIA (I would have tons of NRO / CIA requests) - but I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic ocean.

FOIAs can be filed by persons that are not US citizens and do not reside in the US, if that is what you mean.

 

[Archibald]

It was. How about that. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Scott Kenny]

FOIAs can be filed by persons that are not US citizens and do not reside in the US, if that is what you mean.

Oddly enough, I got a lot of stamp collectors/postmark collectors asking for my ship's postmark. Before all ships had been issued one for purposes of absentee ballots. And once we did get one, it was a simple circle with a changeable date on it that stayed on the ship.

But those came from all over the place...

 

[quellish]

It was. How about that. Thanks for the tip.

I filed one with CIA today for a document that was redacted and released in 2010. I asked that the redactions be reviewed because it had been 15 years and I believed they had made an error in making redactions that did not have a solid legal basis (a dead UAV program does not fit the legal definition of an intelligence source).

Maybe in a few years I’ll get a release. Or like other requests about this program they’ll send me a nice glomar response in a couple of days

 

[Dynoman]

Prior to ISINGLASS there was the Mach 4 General Dynamics Study according to the CIA document. This may have been one of the preceding 'bubbles' in the chart above. The General Dynamics Study was redacted in copies of the same document provided by the CIA. This General Dynamics Study was seen very favorably by the CIA and was awaiting vulnerability studies. It was being conducted during the development of OXCART. The author of the document thought only Kelly Johnson Skunk Works or McDonnell Douglas were the only groups capable of developing such a vehicle.

 

[quellish]

Prior to ISINGLASS there was the Mach 4 General Dynamics Study according to the CIA document. This may have been one of the preceding 'bubbles' in the chart above. The General Dynamics Study was redacted in copies of the same document provided by the CIA. This General Dynamics Study was seen very favorably by the CIA and was awaiting vulnerability studies. It was being conducted during the development of OXCART. The author of the document thought only Kelly Johnson Skunk Works or McDonnell Douglas were the only groups capable of developing such a vehicle.

GD proposal is described here:

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP90B00170R000200310001-8.pdf

1. Under consideration by the Office of Special Activities,
DD/S&T, is an Advanced Aircraft concept which features speeds
as high as Mach 20, altitudes of 200,000 feet, and a reconnais-
sance range of 6700 nautical miles. The program (code name
Project RHEINBERRY) has not been funded, nor has it formally nor has
further preliminary
studies by OSA. These studies will be in conjunction with
the DDI relative to requirements and with DD/S&T/OSI on
vulnerability aspects.
Isinglass), which considered a Mach 5-6 aircraft, flying at
110,000 feet, was considered infeasible because of vulnerability
to SA-2 and Griffon missiles.
2. The most promising concept is that proposed by
McDonnell Aircraft of St. Louis, featuring a design which
draws on that company's experience in ASSET (Aerothermodynamic
Structural Systems Environmental Tests),
the M122 Aeroballistic Missile. High temperature metals are
expected to solve heat
in the above programs
The engine proposed would be a
Pratt-Whitney advanced rocket engine using liquid hydrogen/
oxygen fuel. The feasibility of engine concept has been
proven by subscale tests of major components and with extensive
experience on the RL-10.