Post-war Horten designs

Actually, the details of the four-seater came from my book on the FMA. But what did Diplo. Ing. Reinmar Horten have to say in his book.

Nurflügel: Die Geschichte der Horten-Flugzeuge 1933-1960?


" Working conditions at the Institute were even more difficult than those in Germany during the war. We could not obtain spruce pine nor good quality birch plywood, therefore we had to employ local materials of an inferior quality. The greatest problem we had was the glue. The General in charge of the Institute ordered that the glue should be manufactured by the chemical department. When we received it, it was already beginning to harden and most of it was useless. Several aircraft were lost due to failure of this glue. The fate of new prototypes was also rather peculiar. Before it could even fly, the Public Relations Department sent it to some far away village, where it was exhibited until grass began to grow through the wings. After that, the prototype was ready for the scrap heap. Nine gliders were manufactured under such difficult conditions."

As I point out in my book on the FMA, there was a divorce between aspirations and reality. Horten adds that the I.A.48 (and I add the IA 37) were beyond the capabilities of an (industrially) underdeveloped country such as the Argentine.
Stanley Hoooker in his book "Not much of an enginee"r mentions the glue, manufactured from horse fat which was quite malodorous.
 

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Actually, the details of the four-seater came from my book on the FMA. But what did Diplo. Ing. Reinmar Horten have to say in his book.

Nurflügel: Die Geschichte der Horten-Flugzeuge 1933-1960?


" Working conditions at the Institute were even more difficult than those in Germany during the war. We could not obtain spruce pine nor good quality birch plywood, therefore we had to employ local materials of an inferior quality. The greatest problem we had was the glue. The General in charge of the Institute ordered that the glue should be manufactured by the chemical department. When we received it, it was already beginning to harden and most of it was useless. Several aircraft were lost due to failure of this glue. The fate of new prototypes was also rather peculiar. Before it could even fly, the Public Relations Department sent it to some far away village, where it was exhibited until grass began to grow through the wings. After that, the prototype was ready for the scrap heap. Nine gliders were manufactured under such difficult conditions."

As I point out in my book on the FMA, there was a divorce between aspirations and reality. Horten adds that the I.A.48 (and I add the IA 37) were beyond the capabilities of an (industrially) underdeveloped country such as the Argentine.
Stanley Hoooker in his book "Not much of an enginee"r mentions the glue, manufactured from horse fat which was quite malodorous.
It is an FMA drawing, it has been known for decades. Your book is not the bible of the FMA just because you published it in English.

There were many publications before your book, there were many after, and there will continue to be.

And no one asked you about your book, I just asked you to stop repeating images and texts already uploaded in the topic, which add nothing.
 
You stated that you had uploaded the drawing. In the German club (New York) we had a saying: about history" We all have pieces of the puzzle, not the entire puzzle." There were other books before mine and there'll indeed will be others, but each of these will only have parts of the puzzle. The difference between mine and the others is that I have exchanged data and photos with a number of distinguished European military, naval and aviation air historians, such as Juan Arraez Cerda, William Green, Jürg Meister, Franz Kosar, Peter Selinger among others, and incorporated documents from Argentine archives as well as documents obtained at the U.S. National Archives, which in some cases I translated for Pancho San Martin......
 

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Diferentes variantes del IA-37 diseñado por el Dr. Reimar Horten en la FMA, incluido un transporte de cuatro personas con ala delta y ala convencional
Puesto 63, página 2
Dijiste que habias subido el dibujo. En el club alemán (Nueva York) usó un dicho: sobre la historia "Todos tenemos piezas del rompecabezas, no el rompecabezas completo". Hubo otros libros antes del mío y, de hecho, habrá otros, pero cada uno de estos solo tendrá partes del rompecabezas. La diferencia entre el mío y los demás es que intercambió datos y fotos con un número de distinguidos historiadores aéreos militares, navales y aeronáuticos europeos, como Juan Arraez Cerda, William Green, Jürg Meister, Franz Kosar, Peter Selinger entre otros, e incorporé documentos de archivos argentinos así como documentos obtenidos en los Archivos Nacionales de los Estados Unidos, que en algunos casos traduje para Pancho San Martín......
 
Pardon me, I didn't realize you were the web master... But I did translate the relevant paragraph about the real working conditions at IAME, from Horten's Nurflügel from German to English. These facts were corroborated by Pancho San Martín when we met in 1997

Nurflügel: Die Geschichte der Horten-Flugzeuge 1933-1960?​


" Working conditions at the Institute were even more difficult than those in Germany during the war. We could not obtain spruce pine nor good quality birch plywood, therefore we had to employ local materials of an inferior quality. The greatest problem we had was the glue. The General in charge of the Institute ordered that the glue should be manufactured by the chemical department. When we received it, it was already beginning to harden and most of it was useless. Several aircraft were lost due to failure of this glue. The fate of new prototypes was also rather peculiar. Before it could even fly, the Public Relations Department sent it to some far away village, where it was exhibited until grass began to grow through the wings. After that, the prototype was ready for the scrap heap. Nine gliders were manufactured under such difficult conditions."

As I point out in my book on the FMA, there was a divorce between aspirations and reality. Horten adds that the I.A.48 (and I add the IA 37) were beyond the capabilities of an (industrially) underdeveloped country such as the Argentine.
Stanley Hooker in his book "Not much of an engineer mentions the glue, manufactured from horse fat which was quite malodorous.
 
Pardon me, I didn't realize you were the web master... But I did translate the relevant paragrapgh from Horten;s Nürflugel from German to English.

Nurflügel: Die Geschichte der Horten-Flugzeuge 1933-1960?​


" Las condiciones de trabajo en el Instituto eran aún más difíciles que las de Alemania durante la guerra. No podíamos conseguir pino abeto ni contrachapado de abedul de buena calidad, por lo que teníamos que emplear materiales locales de calidad inferior. El mayor problema que tuvimos fue el pegamento El General encargado del Instituto mandó que la cola la fabricara el departamento químico, cuando la recibimos ya estaba empezando a endurecerse y la mayor parte estaba inservible, se perdieron varios aviones por falla de esta cola. El destino de los nuevos prototipos también fue bastante peculiar. Antes de que pudiera volar, el Departamento de Relaciones Públicas lo envió a un pueblo lejano, donde se exhibió hasta que la hierba comenzó a crecer a través de las alas. Después de eso, el prototipo estaba listo para la chatarra. montón.Se fabricaron nueve planeadores en condiciones tan difíciles".

Como señalo en mi libro sobre las FMA, hubo un divorcio entre las aspiraciones y la realidad. Horten agrega que el IA48 (y agrego el IA 37) estaban más allá de las capacidades de un país subdesarrollado (industrialmente) como Argentina.
Stanley Hooker en su libro "Poco ingeniero menciona el pegamento, fabricado con grasa de caballo que era bastante maloliente.
Ya has repetido ese texto varias veces en diferentes temas de este foro, se entendió tu punto de vista. No veo la razón para publicar siempre lo mismo.

Y quise decir que el texto no agrega nada sobre el Horten de cuatro plazas.
 
The best book about the Horten brothers.

In this book the aircraft projects developed by Reimar Horten in Argentina are very well documented.

Then David Mhyra issued some pdf monographs on the IA-48, the tailless fighter and Horten's supersonic cruise missile (I can proudly say that I handed over all the documentation I had on this unknown project until recently, and there is a couple more...)

D_NQ_NP_923011-MLA29621652812_032019-O.jpg
 
Esta bien, pues aparte de ese tríptico no poséo otros datos. Que tienes tu? me gustara tener otros detalles, tambien hatengo un tríptico del modelo diseñado poe Tank. EL IAME desde 1952 se convertió en una fábrica de prototipos, como podras apreciar por estos cuadros estadísticos.
 

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I just ordered a copy of Stanley Hooker's book, since my own (and a few dozen loose- leave binders with files, including a letter from Horten and his impressions on Tank's I.A. 36 project (which he found völlig lächerlich (utterly ridiculous) plus almost 100 books were lost "in transit" by the troglodyte movers.
 
Project I.A.59 (Dr Reimar Hörten) - Assault aircraft and light transport

Regional transport jet aircraft for short distances, in the 17 to 25 tn category, designed to operate aerodromes with runways of 1000 m in length.

There was going to be a civil and a military version. The military one was equipped with a rear loading ramp.

A significant detail is the original arrangement of the power plants on the wings, obtaining a distance from the ground that reduces the possibility of suction of foreign bodies, in addition to achieving a greater margin of centering of the aircraft with different load conditions by improving the location. center of gravity.

This configuration was chosen over that of a high-wing aircraft after a careful comparison between the two configurations.

Text source: "Military Aircraft Factory - Chronicles and Testimonies" by Ángel César Arreguez


fma-ia-59-jpg.667611



Civil Variant
fma-ia-59-version-civil-jpg.667614



Military Variant
fma-ia-59-version-militar-jpg.667615



high-wing configuration
fma-ia-59-version-ala-alta-jpg.667616




View: https://twitter.com/RengelGonzalo/status/1458781834398085126
 
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Horten's tailless fighter. Digital art by Mario Merino Alegre
 

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Naranjeros, Gauchos and Indians.

By Hernan Longoni


Brief review about this article: This note was published in 2001 in "Arqueologia Aeronautica Argentina" and in the old web site of "Reporte Aereo Mundial". In 2002 it was translated into English and published in the "Latin American historycal Society" (www.laahs.com) and in 2007 into english as a chapter of the book "History of the FMA: 1927-1955. Von Rauch-Longoni", in 2008 it was published in noro 56 of the magazine "War-heat" of Spain. Now we feel the need to upload it to this blog to share with the reader the little-known history of this emblematic plane.


IAe+38-08.jpg
 
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Horten Ho-Xb Piernifero, the first two photos at the Museum of Industry in Cordoba, and Horten I.Ae.41 Urubú, the last photos with both gliders already at the National Aeronautics Museum

In the second photo, the architect Roberto Tacchi - one of the builders, a friend of Horten and owner of the glider - appears under the Ho-Xb. He also piloted the Ho-Xa
 

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In the first pic Urubu y Storch, I think the Storch is actually a French-built post-war Morane-Saulnier MS-50x Criquet.
 
Horten I.Ae.41 Urubú, the photographs were taken moments before crossing the Andes Mountains.
 

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Beautiful images of the IA-38, many thanks for posting. A random query, what colour was the prototype ? Iv seen scale models finished in overall grey, light brown and even orange ?



Many thanks, Joe
This is the closest I found
 

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FMA/Horten I.Ae.34 Clen Antú
 

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There are different versions for the names of the Horten Ho-X series.
In my files the Horten Ho-Xa is the "Alita", and the Ho-Xb is the "Piernifero".
Can you please clarify which is which ?
 
There are different versions for the names of the Horten Ho-X series.
In my files the Horten Ho-Xa is the "Alita", and the Ho-Xb is the "Piernifero".
Can you please clarify which is which ?

It is indistinct, they called Horten Xa L'alita in its beginnings. But then they also started calling him Piernifero.

In general, all three models (Ho-Xa, Ho-Xb and Ho-Xc) are classified as Pierniferous.
It is not clear to me who called L'alita.

I personally knew Roberto Tacchi and Rogelio Bartolini and both called Piernifero, both Ho-Xa and Ho-Xb

In this forum, in post 51 there is a note written by Tacchi from 2007 where he calls him both ways interchangeably


An article about the piernifero published in the newspaper of the National University of Cordoba
 

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More photos of the book
 

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IA-37: the failed story of the supersonic jet created by a Luftwaffe engineer who emigrated to Argentina in the time of Perón

The prototype was created by Reimar Horten and it flew in 1954. However, the initiative was suspended with the 1955 coup d'état. In Argentina, the German designer became a world eminence in aeronautics


IEVKYOUQNJF2TCSRJ5GLOQTBGM.jpg
 
More photos of the book
I was able to flip through the book "Reimar Horten, el Genio de las Alas Voladoras".

The truth is that it has very interesting photos and drawings, but in the little that I saw I noticed that it has too many typos, and from a historical point of view gross errors, such as saying that Reimar Horten designed the Pucara.

To highlight a three-view drawing of the IA-38 jet, for 24 passengers and powered by two Rolls Royce Nene. And the drawing of a twin-engine, delta-wing jet fighter from the 1970s. The engines were housed in nacelles under the wings, Concorde style.
 

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