Pinnacle of Piston fighter: Last US piston fighters vs Spiteful Mk XVI?
Heinkel He P.1076
In 1935’s contest for future fighter airplanes of the Luftwaffe, the Heinkel He 112
lost against the Messerschmitt Bf 109 because of its elliptic wing, more difficult to
manufacture.
In 1937, in an effort to remain in the contest, Dr Heinkel promised to General
Luftzeugmeister Udet that he would be able to manufacture a fighter that, propelled
by a Daimler Benz DB 601, would be capable of reaching 700 km/h.
Although Udet considered it impossible, the project – named Heinkel P1035 – began
on 25 May 1937. The design team, led by Siegfried Günter, had the streamlining and
drag reduction as the main guidelines. They adopted a well-faired cockpit, a fully-
retractable tail wheel and a stressed-skin wing covering, reducing the number of
Butter rivets.
The DB 601 engine had exhaust ejectors for a small amount of thrust and the
supercharger inlet was moved from the side of the cowling to a location under the
propeller hub. The frontal radiator was replaced by a surface cooling system, inspired
by the Macchi seaplane racers, which was already being tested on the He 119 V1.
Steam at high temperature was separated from the cooling fluid coming from
the engine, using a centrifugal compressor and an expansion chamber. The heat
exchangers, located in the wings, had a total capacity of 345 litres and transferred the
heat outside through the light alloy stressed covering. The steam was then condensed
into liquid by cooling and returned to the engine circuit by means of twenty-two
electric driven centrifugal pumps.
A similar system was designed to refrigerate the oil, by passing it through a heat
exchanger where methyl alcohol was added. The resulting vapour was then ducted to
the tail surfaces, where it was to be condensed back to liquid form before returning to
the heat exchanger.
By the end of October the project was presented to the Technisches Amt of the
Luftwaffe, receiving number type He 100.
During the flight tests of the first prototype, it turned out that the wing suffered a
structural distortion, caused by the high temperatures. It was also confirmed that the
oil cooling system did not work at all.
The second prototype had a reinforced wing cladding and was equipped with a
retractable auxiliary cooler for the ground running and another, on the port wing
root, for the oil.
More prototypes and a short preproduction series were built and the He 100
achieved several speed records. But its little reliable cooling system – which made it
very vulnerable in combat – together with its maintenance problems and the lack of DB
601 engines, advised against its mass production, foreseen for 1939.
However, Ernst Heinkel tried it again, following the RLM specifications for a piston-
engined fighter which was to combine speed and high-altitude performance.
By the end of 1944, the team of Siegfried Günter started to work on the P1076,
possibly the fastest airplane of its class ever designed. Based on the He 100, a more
sophisticated version of the surface-cooling technology was adopted, where the steam
circulated within the double layer of stressed-skin covering that integrated the wings,
the engine cowling, the rear fuselage and the tailfin. The centrifugal compressor and
the expansion chamber were located at the rear of the fuselage.
The design of the wings was very advanced for its time, with a perfectly smooth
surface, and slightly swept forward at 8 degrees, constructed as a two piece, two spar,
all metal structure. The section between the spars housed the condensation deposits
of the heat exchangers, the electric driven centrifugal pumps, the main undercarriage
and two Mk 108/30 cannon and ammo tanks. Flaps and ailerons spanned the entire
trailing edge, with the outermost as ailerons and the inside ones as landing flaps.
The armoured cockpit was pressurised for high-altitude flying and covered with a
clear vision bubble canopy that was hinged to the port side. The 700 litres fuel tank was
located behind the pilot seat. The tail wheel was fully retractable.
To facilitate its cooling on both sides, the tailfin was designed with a 0 degrees
angle to the fuselage axis. As a consequence, all the installed engines had to be fitted
with counter-rotating three-blade VDM propellers. The P.1076 was projected in four
different versions, to adjust to the new 2,000 hp class engines that were expected to be
available in 1945.
The P.1076/I was designed as a competitor of the Bf 109 K-14. Equipped with a DB
603 M, it would have been faster and climbed to higher altitude, carrying heavier
armament.
The P.1076/II, fitted with a Jumo 213, should reach similar performances. Its produc-
tion was to compete against the Fw 190 D-9, to which could have equally exceeded in
armament, maximum speed and ceiling.
The P.1076/III was designed as a competitor of the Fw Ta 152 H. Equipped with a DB
603N and a wingspan expanded to 12.40 m, it would have been a formidable high-altitude
interceptor, so fast and well armed as the Me 262, but with a superior ceiling.
The design of a V16 variant of the DB 603, known as DB 609, was started in September
1942. It had a 16-cylinder and 2,500 hp engine, the prototype of which showed serious
problems of vibration, when tested in the Focke Wulf 190 V19, due to the excessive
length of the crankshaft.
The expectation was that the DB 609, with two-stage twin supercharger, integrated
heat exchanger cooler and contra-rotating three-blade VDM propellers, would reachthe 3,400 hp at a ceiling of 12,000 m, but the vibration issue could not be solved and the
program was cancelled in 1943. From some drawings of the time can be inferred that
the purpose was to install it on the P.1076. The version III, with increased span, would
possibly serve to compensate the lengthier engine. The new airplane would have had a
length of 9.86m and a central armament of 55 mm Mk 112B, Mk 214 or Mk 412.
He P.1076/I Technical Data
Engine A Daimler Benz DB 603M, twin supercharged, with take-off power of 1,825 hp and
2,100 hp with MW50 injection boost.
Wingspan 11 m
Length 9.60 m
Sweep -8 degrees at 0.25 chord
Wing area 18.00 sq m
Height 2.90 m
Max. weight 3,260 kg
Max. speed 860 km/h at 11,000 m
Rate of climb 17.2 m/sec at 9,000 m
Service ceiling 14,500 m
Max. range 1,340 km.
Landing speed 167 km/h
Armament One Mk 103/30 engine mounted cannon plus two Mk 108/30 wing mounted cannon.
He P.1076/II Technical Data
Engine A Junkers Jumo 213 E, two-stage, three-speed supercharger with take-off power
of 1,750 hp and 2,100 hp with MW50 injection boost.
Wingspan 11 m
Length 9.64 m
Sweep -8 degrees at 0.25 chord
Wing area 18.00 sq m
Height 2.90 m
Max. weight 4,480 kg
Max. speed 860 km/h at 11,000 m
Rate of climb 17.2 m/sec at 9,000 m
Service ceiling 14,500 m
Max. range 1,340 km
Landing speed 167 km/h
Armament One Mk 103/30 engine mounted cannon plus two Mk 108/30 wing mounted
cannon.
He P.1076/III Technical Data
Engine A Daimler Benz DB 603N, with two-stage twin supercharger, integrated heat
exchanger cooler and contra-rotating three-blade VDM propellers. Take-off power of 2,750 hp and 1,500 hp at 9,200 m.
Wingspan 12.40 m
Length 9.60 m
Sweep -8 degrees at 0.25 chord
Height 2.90 m
Max. weight 5,230 kg
Max. speed 880 km/h at 11,000 m
Armament One Mk 103/30 engine mounted cannon plus two Mk 108/30 wing mounted cannons.
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-Dornier P.252
By the beginning of March 1945, the Luftwaffe no longer need an all-weather
interceptor Moskitojäger but a heavy night fighter with a great amount of electronic
equipment, this in turn requiring the inclusion of a third crew member.
This left the Junkers EF-128, Heinkel P.1079B and Horten Ho229V6 designs out of the
contest, as they could not increase the crew room for structural reasons.
Messerschmitt was forced to enlarge the fuselage and redesign the wings of its Me
262 B-2 (17 March 1945) being finally left out for three reasons: it used light alloys for
its construction, it could not transport enough fuel and the Siemens Antler antenna of
its radar was fixed.
The designs dependent on the HeS 011 turbojet – Arado Ar234P, Ar.I and E-583,
Blohm und Voss P.215, Focke Wulf P.011.045, P.0310251-51, P.011-046 and P.011-047
and Gotha P.60C – consumed too much fuel, lacking the endurance required in the 27
January 1945 specification. Only the Dornier P.252 and the Focke Wulf P.0310251-22
with mixed propulsion could make it.
Based on the aerodynamic solutions of the P.247/6, the Dornier Project Office
produced two swept-wing, very fast designs, with two Jumo 213J piston engines in
tandem driving contra-rotating 50-degree sweep, multi-bladed Scimitar propellers,
especially designed to counteract an effect known as wave drag which occurs just
below supersonic speeds.
The first design, denominated P.252/2, was a high-altitude all-weather interceptor,
with 35-degree swept wings and 50 mm cannons, to fight against the American B-29s
when they appeared over Europe.
To the standard night equipment, some day combat features were added: armoured
windshield against 20 mm shelling, ceiling and rear of the cockpit protected by metal
plates against 20 mm ammo, GM-1 power boost and several Vertikalbordwaffen SG116
or SG117, capable of shooting vertically against the belly of a bomber when passing
underneath it, activated by a photoelectric cell. These devices allowed the P.252 to fly
at full speed under the boxes, without the need of aiming the armament.
The second design, known as P.252/3, was faster and with a smaller wingspan.
Equipped as a night fighter, it could stay up to seven hours in the air, harassing the
stream of enemy bombers the whole way back to England.
Although the general opinion was that the piston fighter had reached the limit of its
potential development (Göring, 22 February 1945), the Dornier engineers continued
working on the P.252 until the end of the war in Europe.
P.252.2 Technical Data
Type Three seat high-altitude all-weather interceptor.
Airframe Light alloy structure and cladding.
Cockpit Pressurised, control heating. The pilot and navigator-radio operator sat side by
side under the clear canopy, the radar operator sat with his back to the pilot,
under the armoured plates of the ceiling.
Only the pilot had an ejector seat, which meant the existence of some kind of
mechanism to detach the propeller blades in an emergency.
Undercarriage Of a standard Do 435.
Engine Two Junkers Jumo 213J, 12-cylinder, 60-degree inverted-V, pressure cooled, with
direct fuel injection, three-speed supercharger and special emergency 2600 hp,
2000 hp at 8000 m with GM-1 power boost. The forward engine drove the rear
propeller by means of an 8.3 m extension shaft that went through the rear engine
and its corresponding extension shaft of bigger diameter.
Both engines were installed in different directions so that their respective
propellers (3.2 m diameter, 50-degree sweep) rotated also in opposite directions.
Both engines shared the same configuration of coolers.
Fuel tanks One of 2100 litres in the fuselage and two of 650 litres each in the wings.
GM-1 tank One of 350 litres in the fuselage.
Armament Two Rheinmetall MK 108/30 cannons in the nose with 80 rounds each.
Two MK 108/30 cannons with 100 rounds each, firing 70 degrees upwards in
Schräge Musik configuration behind the cockpit.
Two Rheinmetall-Borsig SG 116/30 Zellendusche recoilless cannons vertically
installed in the fuselage, with photoelectric trigger Opta Radio Fotozellenfühler.
Alternatively, four Rheinmetall-Borsig SG 117/30 Rohrblock recoilless cannons,
vertically installed in the wings, with photoelectric trigger AEG Zossen.
Wingspan 18.4 m (swept 35 degrees at the leading edge, 32.5 degrees at 0.25 chord)
Length 17.80 m
Height 5.05 m
Wing area 55 sq m
Max. speed 900 km/h
Service ceiling 13,000 m to 16,000 m
Electronics Telefunken FuG 244 Bremen O radar preproduction series with 70 cm diameter
Parabolspiegel antenna, searching range of 100 degrees to the sides and 20
degrees downwards. Range of 200 to 5,00 m
Siemens/LGW FuG 101a radioaltimeter
Lorenz Hermine FuG 125a radio-beacon receiver
Lorenz FuG 16 R/T transmitter/receiver
Lorenz FuG 16 ZY Zypresse direction finder device
GEMA FuG 25a IFF device ErstlingFuG 139 Barbarossa command relay device
Lorenz FuG 350 Zc Naxos passive radar receiver
EiV125 crew intercom
AEG Zossen photoelectric trigger
Opta radio Fotozellenfühler photoelectric trigger
Askania EZ42 Adler gyroscopic gunsight
Zeiss Revi C16 A-N auxiliary gunsight for aiming the Schräge Musik cannons
P.252.3 Technical Data
Type Three-seat heavy night fighter.
Airframe Light alloy structure and cladding.
Cockpit Pressurised, control heating. The pilot and navigator-radio operator sat side by
side, the radar operator sat with his back to the pilot.
The crew was protected in the forward part by armoured glass windscreen
against 12.7 mm shelling and in the rear part by metal plates against 20 mm
rounds from the fighters.
Only the pilot had an ejector seat, which meant the existence of some kind of
mechanism to detach the propeller blades in an emergency.
Undercarriage Of a standard Do 435.
Engine Two Junkers Jumo 213J, 12-cylinder, 60-degree inverted-V, pressure cooled, with
direct fuel injection, three-speed supercharger and special emergency 2600
hp with MW-50 power boost. The forward engine drove the rear propeller by
means of a 9.3 m extension shaft that went through the rear engine and its
corresponding extension shaft, of bigger diameter.
Both engines were installed in different directions so that their respective
propellers (3.2 m diameter, 50-degree sweep) rotated also in opposite directions.
Each engine had its own cooler and air intakes in the wings roots and at the
upper end of the fuselage.
Fuel tanks One of 1500 litres and another of 1,000 litres in the fuselage and two of 450 litres
each in the wings.
Oil tanks Two of 110 litres each in the fuselage.
MW-50 tanks One of 100 litres in the fuselage.
Armament Two Rheinmetall MK 108/30 cannons in the nose with 80 rounds each.
Two Rheinmetall MK 108/30 cannons with 100 rounds each, firing 70 degrees
upwards in Schräge Musik configuration behind the cockpit.
Two Mauser MK 213/20 cannons with 240 rounds each under the fuselage.
Wingspan 15.80 m (22.5-degree sweep at the leading edge, 20 degrees at 0.25 chord)
Length 17.20 m
Height 5.05 m
Wing area 50 sq m
Aspect ratio 5,0:1
Max. speed 930 km/h
Max. weight 12,300 kg.
Ceiling 12,500 m
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On 18 June, 1943 the USAAF signed a contract for two XP-72 prototypes.
The first aircraft 43-36598, fitted with a four-bladed Curtiss-Wright propeller, compressibility recovery flaps, strengthened landing gear and six wing mounted 0.50 in machine guns, was flown on 2 February, 1944. A maximum speed of 490 mph (789 kph) being reached in flight tests.
The second prototype 43-36599, fitted with a new Aero Products coaxial contra-rotating, six-bladed propeller, flew for the first time on 26 June, 1944.
I mean there are only 2 prototype but 3 rows with different speed value, that why I'm confused
Kugelblitz
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Something doesn't add up when there's 2700 height metres between best speeds?
"On 11 July 1944 and equipped with a General Electric CH-3 turbosupercharger, the XP-47J achieved 493 mph (793 km/h) at 33,350 feet (10,165 m). Although the engine was producing 2,800 hp (2,088 kW), Republic believed the aircraft had more potential. At its own expense, Republic installed a CH-5 turbosupercharger and a larger 13 ft (3.96 m) Curtiss propeller. The propeller was an experimental unit with 2 in (51 mm) added to its trailing edge to increase its width. With the changes, the engine producing 2,730 hp (2,036 kW), and 400 lb (1.78 kN) of jet thrust from the exhaust, Mike Ritchie flew the XP-47J over a calibrated course at 34,450 (10,500 m) feet on 4 August 1944* and achieved 505 mph (813 km/h). "
"The Official Performance Summary report states the XP-47J had a max speed of 507 mph (816 km/h) and a 4,900 fpm (24.9 m/s) initial rate of climb. Republic’s Test Report No. 51 (27 January 1945) lists the max speed as 502 mph (808 km/h)."
-Oldmachinepress
the best speed (505 mph) from Republic is likely due to faulty equipment as they unable to replicate the same speed a second time. Beside, logically speaking Republic motivation to pump up their test value compared to AAF
Anyway, the speed graph of ww ii fighter is something like this
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See the line that reference the Gear Ratio (4th row).
With the contra prop, the gear ratio is lower (0,381) meaning that the propellers are turning slower. The blade tips speed is reduced, the aircraft can fly faster before encountering the high drag regime from the propeller disk.
See also how the time to climb is larger as the a/c is probably heavier and the prop can not convert as much torque from the engine to the air (less coarse pitch as the engine torque as to be used to drive twice as much propeller mass than with a single prop arrangement).
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apparently, the only spiteful that was converted from XIV version to XVI version is spiteful with number RB518
However, I have no idea which photo is before conversion and which one is after conversion. Does anyone have better idea?
![Spiteful F.16 [RB518]_1.jpg](data:image/svg+xml;charset=utf-8,%3Csvg xmlns%3D'http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg' width='591' height='362' viewBox%3D'0 0 591 362'%2F%3E "Spiteful F.16 [RB518]_1.jpg")
However, I have no idea which photo is before conversion and which one is after conversion. Does anyone have better idea?
![Spiteful F.16 [RB518]_1.jpg](https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/data/attachments/275/275641-44e3de34d30999127d297d073e5b228f.jpg "Spiteful F.16 [RB518]_1.jpg")
The paint in the second photograph is more worn, perhaps this is the later version.
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Colonial-Marine
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As far as the original question of this topic, I'll admit to being somewhat biased in favor of the entire Thunderbolt family, so I'd lean towards the XP-72 myself. Of course, there would be some things a production P-72 would do better and others the Spiteful would do better. The Spiteful as the "ultimate Spitfire" may be among the heaviest of that whole family of aircraft, but it is still small and light compared to the XP-72 and its P-47 parent.
I think the Goodyear F2G Super Corsair likely had some unrealized potential in this category of final piston-engine fighters. Historically the timing wasn't right for it as is the case with many of these what-ifs. By the time it flew the Navy saw jets and mixed-power fighters as being the future. The F2G still had some development issue to sort out and with the end of the war there wasn't going to be the money to pursue everything that had promise. If the F2G received the sort of refinement that the ultimate R-2800 powered Vought F4U-5 Corsairs did it ought to have been quite the impressive performer.
I think the Goodyear F2G Super Corsair likely had some unrealized potential in this category of final piston-engine fighters. Historically the timing wasn't right for it as is the case with many of these what-ifs. By the time it flew the Navy saw jets and mixed-power fighters as being the future. The F2G still had some development issue to sort out and with the end of the war there wasn't going to be the money to pursue everything that had promise. If the F2G received the sort of refinement that the ultimate R-2800 powered Vought F4U-5 Corsairs did it ought to have been quite the impressive performer.
Air intake positionCheck the Spiteful image in Post #1 . . .
cheers,
Robin.
I posted that, but then there seem to be conflicting information about the shape of Spiteful XVI, for example this drawing show that XVI version has inlet under the noseCheck the Spiteful image in Post #1 . . .
cheers,
Robin.
Scott Kenny
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The Tu95 engines still produce a massive amount of jet thrust from the core, they should likely be seen as an 8-bladed geared turbofan more than a counter-rotating turboprop.
Maybe.
I lean a bit more towards the planes shown in Wings of Honneamis. Pusher, counter-rotating blades.
Yes, and remember to use capital letters for the aircraft service designations please, it's the XF5U not xf5u.
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Scott Kenny
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Pretty much.
Let me look for some pictures... https://www.hlj.com/productimages/poa/poa38200_0.jpg
from https://www.hlj.com/1-72-scale-roya...hter-3rd-schira-dow-single-seat-type-poa38200
Airborne2001
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I've never heard of that movie, it looks amazing though.
The most advanced aircraft from The Sky Crawlers did have those looks though:
A 3D model (not by me) of the Sanka Mk B.
Here is the famous Skyly J2 from the movie.
Not a fighter, but the Senryu had a massive engine attached to it.
Deltafan
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The Wings of Honneamise, for me, the best anime ever !
The plane (two seats type) in flight:
Scott Kenny
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It's got some messed up scenes in it**, but the space launch sequence is mind-blowing. All the ice sheets falling off the rocket and shining in the sunlight... I strongly recommend watching it on the largest screen you have access to.
** of course it does, it's made by the same studio that did Evangelion...
Love that one. Then imagine a XF5U with RR Darts or PT6 turboprops. As a COIN aircraft for Vietnam in the 1960's...
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I have thought about that before. I read somewhere that the frame was so strong they had trouble scrapping it. Which means it could support armor over the vital bits, and there's lots of room for fuel for loitering. The only difficult bit is so much of the frontage is blocked by the props that any forward firing guns/rockets/missiles would have to go under the fuselage (or drop a fair distance before engines fired). Bombs would be fine though.
It falls under the "what might aircraft look like now if the design had been put into production" category (along with Burnelli's designs). I can imagine a follow on version with a GAU8 for the A-10 mission. You could even do a stealthy version which might look a bit like an X47B turned around so the lower sweep end is facing forward.
Japanese style, Italian colorsPretty much.
Let me look for some pictures... https://www.hlj.com/productimages/poa/poa38200_0.jpg
from https://www.hlj.com/1-72-scale-roya...hter-3rd-schira-dow-single-seat-type-poa38200
Deltafan
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While waiting for a better screen, regarding some of the most notable scenes in the technical universe of the anime (and those on the plane are of better quality, especially from 40 seconds onwards):
Do we have any information about spiteful time to altitude ?
All I could see about spiteful is climb rate at 2000ft
Spiteful: 4890 ft/min (24.8 m/s) at 2000 ft. No additional information
XP-72 with twin props: 5250 ft/min (26.67 m/s) at sea level, take 3.8 min to climb to 20,000 ft
P-51H: 5120 ft/min (26 m/s) at sea level, take 4.58 min to climb to 20,000 ft
XP-51G: take 3.58 min to climb to 20,000 ft
F4U-5: 4840 ft/min (24.58 m/s) at sea level, take 4.7 min to climb to 20,000 ft
All I could see about spiteful is climb rate at 2000ft
Spiteful: 4890 ft/min (24.8 m/s) at 2000 ft. No additional information
XP-72 with twin props: 5250 ft/min (26.67 m/s) at sea level, take 3.8 min to climb to 20,000 ft
P-51H: 5120 ft/min (26 m/s) at sea level, take 4.58 min to climb to 20,000 ft
XP-51G: take 3.58 min to climb to 20,000 ft
F4U-5: 4840 ft/min (24.58 m/s) at sea level, take 4.7 min to climb to 20,000 ft
BTW, do you know what is the initial climb rate of hornet Mk I ?. Is it 4700ft/min or 5400 ft/min at sea level?
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