Phazotron Sapfir-23 and Sapfir-25 radar

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I never said only Soviet late ML models got it. As far as I understood it export MLs were late production MLs, so presumably Warpac at least got Sapfir-23MLAE as opposed to an export variant of the Sapfir-23ML in their MLs, along with ASP-17 gunsights.

I can't confirm that N006 = Sapfir-23MLA, but what else can it be? N003 is Sapfir-23ML, N008 is Sapfir-23MLA-2.

Its possible N006 was a wholly different radar only used on MiG-23P, but AFAIK -23P changes were more about upgrades to datalinks etc.

 

[lancer21]

How about this ?

Safir-23ML-Izd 324ML( early ML , ASP-23 sight)
Safir-23MLA-Izd. N-003( late ML-the unoficial MLA?- ASP-17ML sight), export Safir-23MLAE-izd N-003E?...we know for sure that german , bulgarian , cezch MLs all have N-003E on their nose ...tho Mrdetonator , how exactly that czech ML manual excerpt translates, i'm curious why they mention both S-23MLA and S-23MLAE there ...
Safir-23P-Izd N-006( ASP-23P sight)
Safir-23MLA-2-Izd.N-008( export S-23MLAE-2, izd N-008E)

 

[mrdetonator]

How about this ?

Safir-23ML-Izd 324ML( early ML , ASP-23 sight)
Safir-23MLA-Izd. N-003( late ML-the unoficial MLA?- ASP-17ML sight), export Safir-23MLAE-izd N-003E?...we know for sure that german , bulgarian , cezch MLs all have N-003E on their nose ...tho Mrdetonator , how exactly that czech ML manual excerpt translates, i'm curious why they mention both S-23MLA and S-23MLAE there ...
Safir-23P-Izd N-006( ASP-23P sight)
Safir-23MLA-2-Izd.N-008( export S-23MLAE-2, izd N-008E)

Well, you see we do have different opinions, but I still think the Izd.324ML is the same(almost the same) as the N-003, although one look at the radar panel of early Mig-23ML would be enough to see difference there. Find a high-res cockpit picture somewhere!
The manual is describing fire control system designated S-23MLA which included radar Sapfir-23MLAE, and so on....

 

[mrdetonator]

I never said only Soviet late ML models got it. As far as I understood it export MLs were late production MLs, so presumably Warpac at least got Sapfir-23MLAE as opposed to an export variant of the Sapfir-23ML in their MLs, along with ASP-17 gunsights.

I can't confirm that N006 = Sapfir-23MLA, but what else can it be? N003 is Sapfir-23ML, N008 is Sapfir-23MLA-2.

Its possible N006 was a wholly different radar only used on MiG-23P, but AFAIK -23P changes were more about upgrades to datalinks etc.

I merely wanted to know your source, where you have been reading it.
Regarding N006, I think it is similar to the N003 when talking range, radar controls and panels, but with bettered interaction/automatization with other onboard systems like the SAU-23P, ASP-23P, ARL-SM and other, thus they changed the name to N006. Well, thats just my theory...

 

[lancer21]

How about this ?

Safir-23ML-Izd 324ML( early ML , ASP-23 sight)
Safir-23MLA-Izd. N-003( late ML-the unoficial MLA?- ASP-17ML sight), export Safir-23MLAE-izd N-003E?...we know for sure that german , bulgarian , cezch MLs all have N-003E on their nose ...tho Mrdetonator , how exactly that czech ML manual excerpt translates, i'm curious why they mention both S-23MLA and S-23MLAE there ...
Safir-23P-Izd N-006( ASP-23P sight)
Safir-23MLA-2-Izd.N-008( export S-23MLAE-2, izd N-008E)

Well, you see we do have different opinions, but I still think the Izd.324ML is the same(almost the same) as the N-003, although one look at the radar panel of early Mig-23ML would be enough to see difference there. Find a high-res cockpit picture somewhere!
The manual is describing fire control system designated S-23MLA which included radar Sapfir-23MLAE, and so on....

All i could find regarding the early Mig-23ML and the P is these pics ...they come from the same book...i think we need to find other early MLs and look at the cockpit and nose stencils, if we can find more than one ML with both ASP-23 sight and Izd.324 stencils , and IF we can find soviet MLs with ASP-17 and Izd.N-003 stencils , and IF we know for sure they were operational examples , then it might be a chance that they are indeed different-the radars i men ! ( i know , alot of IFs , but unfortunately thats all we got now ...)...wish i could travel to Mother Russia myself, but thats out of my grasp!

Also , here is what a guy on another forum posted...

MiG-23MLA existed.

Sources form a friend of mine.

MiG-23MLA factory code 32-12A

in production - 1978~ 83 750-770 planes, ~ 600 for VVS, 560 of them converted to MLD (32-18) in 1982-85

- for VVS only 0390310388~ 0390322399,

And all MiG-23MLA use name of MiG-23ML in VVS

Do those serial numbers mean anything to you ? ( sorry , this is not within my knowledge)? Can it tell when were they produced? these serials are obviously higher than the aforementioned early ML 0390308260...

Anyway the pics...

 

[mrdetonator]

Also , here is what a guy on another forum posted...

MiG-23MLA existed.

Sources form a friend of mine.

MiG-23MLA factory code 32-12A

in production - 1978~ 83 750-770 planes, ~ 600 for VVS, 560 of them converted to MLD (32-18) in 1982-85
- for VVS only 0390310388~ 0390322399,
And all MiG-23MLA use name of MiG-23ML in VVS

Do those serial numbers mean anything to you ? ( sorry , this is not within my knowledge)? Can it tell when were they produced? these serials are obviously higher than the aforementioned early ML 0390308260...

Well, for example if you have aircraft Mig-23 logbooks stating exact date of first flights or a date when it entered service in the airforce you can put some order to those serial numbers. If last Mig-23ML produced for VVS ended with serial 0390322399, then it happened sometimes mid 1981 what also fits with what is written in many publications.

 

[mrdetonator]

Almost forgot that I found two ML stenciled izd.324ML, one is in Belarus aerodrome Shchuchin, the other one in Zhulyani aviation museum near Kiev, Ukraine.

Mig-23ML with serial no. 0390308260
http://photofile.name/users/flashlight/3236846/

Mig-23ML with serial no. 0390310389
http://litnik.in.ua/content/view/182/82/

 

[lancer21]

Great! I think 030860 is the same one from the book ...as for the other one , if the guy i quoted was right about the MLA , that should have been the second one ! I've been stareing at this second one , and maby my eyesight is bad , but is it saying there "RLSN-324"? dont think you have any info on what sight it had in the cockpit is it ? ???

Well its all confusing now, think my MLA theory is wobbling( but again you mentioned about modifications being introuced progresively , perfectly true offcourse ...the Mig-23 etalon 1971 and the Mig-23M follow the same pattern for instance-in that modifications were introduced gradually, and they ended up overlapping, i've seen for instance one that looks like an M , feels like an M , but it has etalon 1971 wing pylons!

Thanks for your help in finding these, i really apreciate it ! unfortunately all i can do is to just filter whatever i can find on the net and TRY to put two and two together ...please if you can a find some russian MLs with N-003 stencils on them , let me know ...thanks again!

 

[lancer21]

Recently theres another little issue that made me think ...namely the KDS-23 chaff flare dispenser ALLEGEDLY built into the centerline pylon on the earlier Mig-27 and some Mig-23 models( export MLD?)

The installation on the Su-17M3/Su-22 is quite clear ( built into the spine ) its also clear on the Mig-27M et seq...I also remember quite clear about the M demonstrator with MLD wing notches who has two KDS-23 flush on top of the fixed wing glove( still hope to re-locate those pics ..subject of another thread)

However, i still havent seen a pic or a drawing , something about the pylon built in dispenser ...does anyone have more info ?( that configuration makes me think , if the blinking flares somehow ignite by accident when the drop tank is still on , that aint gonna look good!)

Thanks!

 

[lancer21]

I could say NVM on this one, i found what i was looking for in Burdin's book...(what is PKiVP stands for btw?)

 

[John Cool]

VP-23 (ВП-23) probably stands for Винтовы Преобразовател (screw converter).
On the other hand I have absolutely no idea what the "PK" (ПК) thing is.

 

[mandeb48]

some questions:
Why the soviet replace the gunsight ASP-23 for ASP-17?
Was the ASP-23 a HUD or a Gyro gunsigth? How good was it?
Can anyone identify the HUD at the minute 2:04?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ6NRV7zyHk&feature=related

Thanks very muchs.

 

[rousseau]

Anyone can make a comparison to Thomson Cyrano IV radar which equipped on Mirage IIIF?

 

[SPuitH]

Gentlemen,

Sorry to join the discussion so late, but I have a few questions regarding the radars used on the MiG-23s used by the Iraqi Air Force, especially regarding the nomenclature of the designations used...

- The MiG-23MS used the Jay Bird radar, aka RP-22SM (correct subdesignation?), Almaz-23. Is this *exactly* the same as the radar used on their MiG-21bis or are there designation differences?
- The MiG-23MF used the Saphir-23E radar. Does it also have an RP-XX or N-XXX designation?
- The MiG-23ML used the Saphir-23ML radar. Does it also have an RP-XX or N-XXX designation?

Impossible to get exact answers, of course, but does anybody have an idea what would be the typical maximum range of these radars against fighter sized targets?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,

Sander

 

[lancer21]

Hi there Sander,

Regarding detection ranges against fighter size ( MiG-21 type ) targets , i can recall the following ( if more informed folks have better info, please do post)

RP-22SMA Safir-21 18km detection, 12km track ( i assume the figures for Almaz-23 installed on MiG-23MS must be similar)
Safir-23E not sure if it was also called RP-23DE ( there must be a discussion about it earlier in this topic ?), i think it's about 35-40 km detection vs MiG-21 type target.
Safir-23ML (or MLE?) also known as N-003E in export form ( not sure if also called RP-23MLE or similar), 55km detection vs. MIG-21 target.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

1st Generation - inverse Cassegrain antennas

Sapfir-23
Prototype radar.

RP-23L / Izdelyie 323L
MIG-23 (23-11, Izdelyie 2, "MiG-23 etalon 1971") Pulse only, no lookdown circuits.

Sapfir-23D
Early production Soviet MiG-23M (23-11M, Izdeliye 2M), first version with lookdown modes.

Sapfir-23D-III / Izdelyie 323D-III
Later production MiG-23M. More lookdown modes.

Sapfir-23E / RP-23E / Izdeliye 323E
MiG-23MF (23-11A) Export version of Sapfir-23D-III

2nd Generation - Twist cassegrain antenna, solid state electronics.

Sapfir-23ML / N-003 / Izdeliye 323ML / Ametist
Fitted to early Soviet MiG-23ML(23-12) produced between 1976 -1978. Weighs 475kg (166kg lighter than 323D-III) due to lightweight twist-cassegrain antenna and more advanced electronics.

Sapfir-23P / N-006 / Ametist
MiG-23P (23-14, Izdeliye 6) interceptor of 1977. Added improved long range detection at high altitudes i.e. with no clutter.

Sapfir-23MLA / Izdeliye 324ML(?)
Added R-24 compatibility?Later Soviet MiG-23MLs (23-12, Izdeliye 3) from 1978, also added capabilities of PVO MiG-23P's N006 back to VVS MiG-23MLs.

Sapfir-23MLAE / N-003E / Ametist
MiG-23ML (23-12A) Export.

Sapfir-23MLA-2 / N-008 / Ametist
Used on Soviet MiG-23MLD

Sapfir-23MLAE-2 / N-008E
Used on MiG-23MLD export versions.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Noticed something - looking at what I believe are the factory designations of the MiG-23 family (?)


Variant / OKB / Factory

MiG-23 etalon 1971 / Izdeliye 23-11 / Izdeliye 2

MiG-23M / Izdeliye 23-11 / Izdeliye 2M

MiG-23ML / Izdeliye 23-12 / Izdeliye 3

MiG-23P / Izdeliye 23-12 / Izdeliye 6

Note that N003 is mounted on Izdeliye 3, N006 on Izdeliye 6. Meaningful or coincidence? If MiG-23MLD was Izdeliye 8 this theory is completed

 

[glmm]

Sapfir-23D
Early production Soviet MiG-23M (23-11M, Izdeliye 2M), first version with lookdown modes.

Does anyone has details on how those "lookdown circuits" work in these early, non Doppler capable, radar sets? I have the infamous Cyrano IV with MTI radar manual digitally edited by Combat 360 of South Africa some years ago and have also interviewed Spanish F-1 pilots from the era, with conflicting conclusions. Maybe the Soviet method may shed some light on the issue......

 

[Flashback]

Sorry for bad English, this information from russian sources

MiG-23S / 23-21, 23-11S / Izdeliye 22 (1969-1970, 50)

MiG-23 etalon 1971 / 23-11

MiG-23M / 23-11M (1973-1976, 8000)

MiG-23ML / 23-12 (1976-1981/1985-for export)

MiG-23P / 23-14 (1978-..., only for Soviet air defence)

MiG-23MLA / 23-12A (1978-1983)

MiG-23MLD / 23-18 (1981-...)

MiG-23MLAE / 23-19 - 23-12A Variant "B" for export

MiG-23MLAE-2 / 23-22A - 23-18 Variant "A" for WarPac


Sapfir-23 / RP-22SM - MiG-23S, HUD ASP-PFD, the same radar that have later MiG-21s

Sapfir-23L / Izdelyie 323L - MiG-23 "1971"

Sapfir-23D / Izdelyie 323D - MiG-23M, HUD ASP-23D

Sapfir-23D-III / Izdelyie 323D-III - MiG-23M, HUD ASP-23D

Sapfir-23E / Izdeliye 323E - MiG-23MF, HUD ASP-23DE


Sapfir-23ML / Izdeliye 323ML - MiG-23ML, HUD ASP-23DTsM

Sapfir-23ML / Izdeliye 324ML - probably upgraded version of 323ML compatible with R-24 air-to-air missiles

Sapfir-23P / Izdeliye 323P - MiG-23P, HUD ASP-23DTsM-P

Sapfir-23MLA / N-003 Ametist - MiG-23MLA (radar included expanded "БС" modes - БСI, БСII, БСIII), HUD ASP-17ML

Sapfir-23MLAE / N-003E Ametist - MiG-23MLAE, HUD ASP-17ML

Sapfir-23PA / N-006 Ametist - later MiG-23P (six frequency modes allowed automatically controlled interception procedure, first Ametist with solid-state electronics, for Soviet air defence only, not for export), HUD ASP-17ML

Sapfir-23MLA-2 / N-008 Ametist - MiG-23MLD (included special ''ГОР" ("Mountaine") mode for actions over hills and mountains), HUD ASP-17ML

Sapfir-23MLAE-2 / N-008E Ametist - MiG-23MLAE-2 23-22A, HUD ASP-17ML

 

[Flashback]

Was the ASP-23 a HUD or a Gyro gunsigth? How good was it?

I`ll try to explain )) In Soviet air forces ASP sights were not designated as HUD. This term was only in West. ASP designated as SEI - СЕИ (система единой индикации - systema edinoy indikacii). It could indicate targeting information from radar, IRST and gyro gun sight.

In my opinion ASP was better than F-4 Phantom`s ASG. American sight indicated in 1960-1970s only range-rate mark...

Here is ASP-23D:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Bulgaria---Air/Mikoyan-Gurevich-MiG-23MF/2255531/L/&sid=704aa70dc371191251ac3a632e5db0fe

And here is ASP-17:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Bulgaria---Air/Mikoyan-Gurevich-MiG-23MLD/1427515/L/&sid=704aa70dc371191251ac3a632e5db0fe

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

MiG-23 used the ASP-23/ASP-17 to display radar and IRST data, so it is much more than just a gyro gunsight.

 

[glmm]

Same for the Mirage F-1. Those weren't "real" HUDs but could provide more information than a simple optical gyro gunsight.

 

[mandeb48]

Thanks for you answer.




thanks for your reply. Can anyone deepen the technical differences between ASP-PF, ASP-23D and ASP-17ML?

 

[Flashback]

ASP- 17 in close air combat mode allowed to use target designation for R- 60M by moving the reticle using the joystick`s knob "Label -C" ("Metka-Ts" in Russian).
When this mode is selected the movable reflector of ASP- 17 HUD "slides " forward , increasing the field of view and targeting area.
On airplanes with ASP-23 was not so.

The number of symbols displayed on the aircraft with ASP- 17 was significantly increased, which allowed not to use the special indicator panel of ground controlled interception
("Tablo razovyh komand" in Russian) , which was located under the head of ASP -23 earlier.

The picture quality on the reflector of ASP- 17 was significantly better than on airplanes with ASP- 23.

Finally, in itself ASP -17 significantly improved capabilities for air-to-ground weapon delivery

 

[mandeb48]

thanks very much Flashback

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

N003 radar components diagram.

Помогите идентифицировать модификацию МиГ-23 - Страница 36

вариант арабской технической мысли http://ipicture.ru/Gallery/View/8418807.html

forums.airforce.ru

 

[Miguel Aresta]

Does anybody have info on the AVM-23 analog computer ?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Sapfir-25.


Source: http://igor113.livejournal.com/441419.html

 

[SPuitH]

Gents,

We're having an interesting discussion on ACIG regarding the use of the R-24R on the MiG-23MF.

Is the MiG-23MF capable of using the R-24R despite the fact that it has a different radar than the MiG-23ML?

Thanks in advance!

Regards,

Sander

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I believe not. It wasn't even the first Sapfir-23ML (323ML) which added R-24 compatibility but the upgraded Izdeliye 324ML.

 

[SPuitH]

Thanks Overscan!

Had a hunch that this was the case, too.

Kind regards,

Sander

 

[crossiathh]

Interesting question. Theoretically I see no problem to use the R-24 with the MiG-23MF.

Talking about the German LSK/LV MiG-23ML, which was delivered with the N003E and the R-23R/T (the R-24R/T was not delivered before 1986):
The first delivered batch of the German MiG-23ML was not "R-24 ready", the later (1985) was.
The difference was however, that the AVM-23 of the weapon system of the first batch MiG-23ML did not had the necessary parameters of the R-24 (Dmin, Dmax, Heading etc...) ready, to exploit the full capabilities of the R-24 (basically the better range, the better ECM was an advantage of the RGS-24 seeker of the missile) and the R-24 was treated like a R-23. One have to say, this never happens with the German LSK/LV.
The later batch AVM-23 already had this parameters right at delivery and the first batch MiG-23ML's AVM-23 were tuned to recognize the R-24 later on in the squadron. Finally all German MiG-23ML were capable to use the R-24 to full extend. Additionally you need the APU-23M1E, because you could not use the R-24R with the former APU-23M. That's it.

In turn this could mean that there should be no basic problem to use the R-24 with the MiG-23MF as long as you have the APU-23M1E launch rail attached and the missile would be recognized and used as a R-23. I don't know if the AVM-23 of the 323E could be modified for the R-24 parameters, but I asked a former German LSK/LV weapon specialist and I hope to get an answer.

However, IMHO the more important question is: If an air force have MiG-23MF and MiG-23ML/MLD and a stock of both missile types, does it really make sens to use the R-24 with the MiG-23MF?!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Maybe, though it working with 323ML doesn't necessarily mean it would work with 323E in a MiG-23MF. You wouldn't get any range benefits, but it might be possible.

 

[glmm]

I don't know if anybody else has read Osprey's Duel 72 F-15C vs MIG-23/25 by Douglas Dildy&Tom Cooper. While the overall quality of the Duel series is highly variable, I was quite surprised by the description made by the authors about the MIG-23ML "Flogger-G" and its RP-23MLAE Sapfir III (N003E). Here's an excerpt from the book:
"For this version, the Sapfir had been redesigned for engaging only airborne targets in the “front quarter” (head-to-head). The radar had no capability for detecting or tracking targets it was chasing (i.e. the “rear hemisphere”)"

On rear engagements:

"Because the Sapfir III was designed exclusively for front-quarter intercepts and R-24R employment, the TP-23 IRSTS was provided to allow MiG-23 pilots to engage targets in their “rear hemisphere.” In a “stern chase” look-down scenario the TP-23 could locate a high-speed, afterburning (i.e. thermally “hot”) target ahead and the S-23 system would “slave” the seeker head of the IR-guided R-24T, the lock-on being indicated by an aural tone in the pilot’s headset. Range determination was, however, problematic and exacerbated because, in the “tail chase” mode, the R-24 had significantly reduced range, depending on the MiG’s overtake airspeed."

Comments anyone? Undoubtly this is a major limitation.

On the "look down" capability:

"For closing targets at or above the “Flogger’s” altitude, the radar could track (“lockonto”) a target inside 18.9nm (35km), which was approximately the maximum range of the R-24R missile when fired head-on at high altitude. To detect targets below the radar’s altitude, the AVM-23 computer used an “external coherence method” to detect a target passing across/through the “clutter” caused by the earth’s radar return (called “moving target indicator”). This computer process had severe limitations due to numerous “blind zones” in multiples of the radar’s PRF, being able to only detect targets in the duration between successive pulses, and was limited to much shorter detection ranges (16.2nm/30km)."

This seems similar to the Cyrano IVM "Look down" system, which, accoding to the pilots I`ve met, was quite unsuccesful.

 

[Pit]

Hi Gorka,

You can find the details you require in this same thread, page 1, the details are from MiG-23ML's weapon systems manual as provided by the user Mr. Detonator, nearly 10 years ago.

The weapon system selector switch “SIST” with modes:

-RL (BSV, BSV - Delta H4, BSV - Delta H1, SMV, MV)
-BS (I BS, II BS, III BS)
-T (T I, T II, T III, T – Phi 0-I, T – Phi 0-II)
-NVG

The switch IZL-EKV-VYK, impulse transmitter (emit/equivalent/off)
The switch NAVED-AVT-RUCHN, the GCI datalink ARL-SML on/off
The switch MSKC-PPS-ZPS, low-speed target engagements/front/rear hemisphere
The switch PU-VYK, parametric amplifier ON-OFF

The modes BSV, BSV-delta H4, BSV-delta H1, SMV, MV are switched automatically according to aircraft altitude Hs (DV-30 barometric sensor) and the antenna position ”Delta H” switch. The modes I BS, II BS, III BS must be switched manually. When the switch NAVED AVT/RUCHN is set to AVT, the radar mode selection is done automatically by GCI command link (ARL-SML). The radar scan patterns under GCI are better optimized due to PPS/ZPS aspect. The one-way commands from GCI are displayed on special symbol indicator on the HUD sight. Pilot can interrupt the GCI anytime setting the switch to RUCHN.

The mode BSV for high/medium altitudes, all-aspect intercepts (Hc<>=Hs), pulse width ~4 µsec, PRF 1Khz, switching altitude Hs>4,5km, Beam width in search 2,5°. Scan patters depend on NAVED AVT/RUCH switch position. Beam width in STT 1.7°.

The modes BSV-delta H4, BSV-delta H1 for high/medium altitudes are useful for searching targets on earth background not using the Doppler shifts (MTI). For all-aspect intercepts, switching altitude is 4.5km>Hs>1,5km. It uses half/third PRF compared to BSV mode. The “differential compensator device” (DKP) filters false ground signals out. For greater search range the parametric amplifier can be switched on. The receiver sensitivity gains of 5-10% (dB/mW).

The modes BS (I BS, II BS, III BS) for high/medium altitudes are used for all-aspect intercepts (Hs<>=Hc) in case of false targets (clouds) and for picking up targets on earth background by using reference coherent signal received by radar side-lobes. The “III BS” mode has the largest search range of 65km, the “I BS” the smallest one of 27km. The most used mode is the “II BS” with 45km search range. The "III BS" mode works only as a search mode. The FFT Doppler filtering techniques are used to select moving targets flying on the earth background. The so-called “blind speeds” are overcome by changing PRF pulses during each scan line. More than 90% of “blind speeds” are covered, what ensures good MTI.

The mode SMV for medium/low altitudes, only rear-aspect intercepts (Hs<Hc), The switching altitude is Hs<1.5km, pulse width ~1 µsec, PRF 1Khz. The scan patters depend on NAVED AVT/RUCH switch position.

The mode MV is used to engage targets flying at low altitudes on the earth background. It is only for rear-aspect intercepts (Hs>Hc), The switching altitude Hs<1.5km, switch “Delta H”<0, pulse width ~1 µsec, Beam width in search 2,5°. The MV mode uses the MTI based on Doppler shifts.

Do you recommend the afore-mentioned book?

 

[Pit]

As far as I know, the AVM-23 electro-mechanical computer controls the weapon engagement zones calculations for the employment of the missiles and guns, and is not related with the signal processing of incoming radar signals, as it is not a digital signal processor, the radar itself relies on a bank of physical Doppler filters in the radar-receiver device for that.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The description by Dildy and Cooper is not really accurate to the best of my knowledge, however MrDetonator's post is specifically from a WarPac MiG-23ML manual and it is possible some of the modes listed were not available to the Iraqi MiG-23ML.

The MiG-23ML's radar had a lot of different modes and it was important to select the right one for the intercept geometry - pilot skill level was quite important. With a skillful pilot, and a well-maintained radar, it was a reasonable system (though yes, not a true pulse-doppler radar). MiG-29's radar was much, much easier for the average pilot.

Its important to realise ALL radars tend to have best range against closing (head-on) engagements. Some early pulse-doppler radars do indeed only detect closing targets which I think is what Tom Cooper believes to be the case for the N003.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Ahmad Rushdi said Iraqi MiG-23ML had Sapfir-23M radar in this topic many years ago.

 

[glmm]

Well, I should have through the whole thread before posting again! In any case, I was quite dumbfolded by the information given on the book I made an "impulse post".

Hi Gorka,

You can find the details you require in this same thread, page 1, the details are from MiG-23ML's weapon systems manual as provided by the user Mr. Detonator, nearly 10 years ago.

The weapon system selector switch “SIST” with modes:

-RL (BSV, BSV - Delta H4, BSV - Delta H1, SMV, MV)
-BS (I BS, II BS, III BS)
-T (T I, T II, T III, T – Phi 0-I, T – Phi 0-II)
-NVG

The switch IZL-EKV-VYK, impulse transmitter (emit/equivalent/off)
The switch NAVED-AVT-RUCHN, the GCI datalink ARL-SML on/off
The switch MSKC-PPS-ZPS, low-speed target engagements/front/rear hemisphere
The switch PU-VYK, parametric amplifier ON-OFF

The modes BSV, BSV-delta H4, BSV-delta H1, SMV, MV are switched automatically according to aircraft altitude Hs (DV-30 barometric sensor) and the antenna position ”Delta H” switch. The modes I BS, II BS, III BS must be switched manually. When the switch NAVED AVT/RUCHN is set to AVT, the radar mode selection is done automatically by GCI command link (ARL-SML). The radar scan patterns under GCI are better optimized due to PPS/ZPS aspect. The one-way commands from GCI are displayed on special symbol indicator on the HUD sight. Pilot can interrupt the GCI anytime setting the switch to RUCHN.

The mode BSV for high/medium altitudes, all-aspect intercepts (Hc<>=Hs), pulse width ~4 µsec, PRF 1Khz, switching altitude Hs>4,5km, Beam width in search 2,5°. Scan patters depend on NAVED AVT/RUCH switch position. Beam width in STT 1.7°.

The modes BSV-delta H4, BSV-delta H1 for high/medium altitudes are useful for searching targets on earth background not using the Doppler shifts (MTI). For all-aspect intercepts, switching altitude is 4.5km>Hs>1,5km. It uses half/third PRF compared to BSV mode. The “differential compensator device” (DKP) filters false ground signals out. For greater search range the parametric amplifier can be switched on. The receiver sensitivity gains of 5-10% (dB/mW).

The modes BS (I BS, II BS, III BS) for high/medium altitudes are used for all-aspect intercepts (Hs<>=Hc) in case of false targets (clouds) and for picking up targets on earth background by using reference coherent signal received by radar side-lobes. The “III BS” mode has the largest search range of 65km, the “I BS” the smallest one of 27km. The most used mode is the “II BS” with 45km search range. The "III BS" mode works only as a search mode. The FFT Doppler filtering techniques are used to select moving targets flying on the earth background. The so-called “blind speeds” are overcome by changing PRF pulses during each scan line. More than 90% of “blind speeds” are covered, what ensures good MTI.

The mode SMV for medium/low altitudes, only rear-aspect intercepts (Hs<Hc), The switching altitude is Hs<1.5km, pulse width ~1 µsec, PRF 1Khz. The scan patters depend on NAVED AVT/RUCH switch position.

The mode MV is used to engage targets flying at low altitudes on the earth background. It is only for rear-aspect intercepts (Hs>Hc), The switching altitude Hs<1.5km, switch “Delta H”<0, pulse width ~1 µsec, Beam width in search 2,5°. The MV mode uses the MTI based on Doppler shifts.

So I understand the radar (at least in this version, should have been capable to track a fleeing target? OF course, it MAY be possible the Iraqis had no access to the full ML radar modes as mentioned.

Do you recommend the afore-mentioned book?

The Osprey Duel series had great shifts on quality; in this particular case I wouldn't recommend the book. While it tries to get into hard data on weapon systems, it reallys doesn't clear many things up and, per the said comments on the radar systems, it looks like the info isn't too reliable.

Curiously enough, the F-15 systems are quite lightly covered.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The best account of the MiG-23 weapons system development and performance is in a recent MiG-23 book by Viktor Markovsky. I'm translating it at present.