Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider (LRS-B)

[Scott Kenny]

“RQ-180” already exists, though I suspect there are/will be other platforms.

Assuming that the B-21 can receive data from it and possibly control it, then yes that'd work. Back in the B-2 days, there was a lot of discussion around also needing a supersonic penetrating ISR bird to catch the ICBM TELs before they got back under cover, before the subsonic ISR birds arrived.

So there will likely be both an RQ-180(equivalent) and a Blackbird(equivalent) as CCAs for the B-21s.

 

[Kat Tsun]

Assuming that the B-21 can receive data from it and possibly control it, then yes that'd work. Back in the B-2 days, there was a lot of discussion around also needing a supersonic penetrating ISR bird to catch the ICBM TELs before they got back under cover, before the subsonic ISR birds arrived.

So there will likely be both an RQ-180(equivalent) and a Blackbird(equivalent) as CCAs for the B-21s.

RQ-180 when he's just QUARTZ for the B-21.

After 50 years the capacity to hunt and kill TELs in a steppe wasteland is in the USAF's hands.

 

[quellish]

So there will likely be both an RQ-180(equivalent) and a Blackbird(equivalent) as CCAs for the B-21s.

USAF is moving almost all ISR to space (space force)

 

[Scott Kenny]

USAF is moving almost all ISR to space (space force)

That is a monumentally stupid policy.

 

[Hydroman]

I would certainly expect there to be other unanounced platforms that exist either in the design stage or operating in total secrecy in the Black World just as TACIT BLUE once did all those years ago Josh_TN.

I think an evolved Tacit Blue (AP-1) would be relevant now plus again, Tacit Blue for it's time was pretty advanced, even for a demonstrator. Is JSTARS even flying missions still, I have not kept track of JSTARS? One flight controls engineer I worked with at Pico who had been on TB said there was a production configuration from which I understand was a pretty sleek looking bird with increased VLO capability.

 

[Kat Tsun]

That is a monumentally stupid policy.

It makes sense when in the context of IBCS and full surface to space integration of all sensors.

 

[quellish]

I think an evolved Tacit Blue (AP-1) would be relevant now plus again, Tacit Blue for it's time was pretty advanced, even for a demonstrator. Is JSTARS even flying missions still, I have not kept track of JSTARS? One flight controls engineer I worked with at Pico who had been on TB said there was a production configuration from which I understand was a pretty sleek looking bird with increased VLO capability.

JSTARS is being replaced by a space based system

 

[Scott Kenny]

I think an evolved Tacit Blue (AP-1) would be relevant now plus again, Tacit Blue for it's time was pretty advanced, even for a demonstrator. Is JSTARS even flying missions still, I have not kept track of JSTARS? One flight controls engineer I worked with at Pico who had been on TB said there was a production configuration from which I understand was a pretty sleek looking bird with increased VLO capability.

I expect an equivalent/successor as part of the Army's rotorcraft program (not FLRAA, the Apache replacement) and maybe for the USAF at a tactical level.

I mean, the original plan for TACIT BLUE was some 600 birds, right? And all that was for battlefield surveillance.

It'd be foolish to lock into the space based system without an alternate.

 

[Josh_TN]

Assuming that the B-21 can receive data from it and possibly control it, then yes that'd work. Back in the B-2 days, there was a lot of discussion around also needing a supersonic penetrating ISR bird to catch the ICBM TELs before they got back under cover, before the subsonic ISR birds arrived.

So there will likely be both an RQ-180(equivalent) and a Blackbird(equivalent) as CCAs for the B-21s.

It’s worth pointing out NROL orbited a hundred satellites last year alone and likely keeps that pace up for the foreseeable future. USAF/Spaceforce and NROL are already stepping on eat others toe a bit because the NROL constellations are moving towards near realtime target generation. The U.S. Army has produced target lists in minutes using AI and commercial satellites; I cannot imagine why the USAF would not do the same. By the end of the decade I think we will see on orbit AI assets with their own target identification software that just spit out tagged target information for a given area upon request by any terrestrial terminal. Orbital MTI is probably only a decade away.

 

[Scott Kenny]

It’s worth pointing out NROL orbited a hundred satellites last year alone and likely keeps that pace up for the foreseeable future. USAF/Spaceforce and NROL are already stepping on eat others toe a bit because the NROL constellations are moving towards near realtime target generation. The U.S. Army has produced target lists in minutes using AI and commercial satellites; I cannot imagine why the USAF would not do the same. By the end of the decade I think we will see on orbit AI assets with their own target identification software that just spit out tagged target information for a given area upon request by any terrestrial terminal.

That may preclude the Blackbird-equivalent, I still think there will be a QUARTZ/AARS subsonic bird in existence.

Orbital MTI is probably only a decade away.

They were talking about it being a decade away in the 1990s.

 

[Josh_TN]

They were talking about it being a decade away in the 1990s.

Perhaps, but constellations with hundreds of satellites are a reality now. NROL is almost there and SDA will put up theirs this year, likely, with both building out the infrastructure every couple years. I think MTI is coming sooner rather than later now.

In any case, we certainly know of air and space borne recon platforms than can support the strike mission, and that is just the stuff we know of in open source operating right now. I suspect by the end of decade there will be high supersonic/hypersonic UAVs as well, assuming there are not already.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Perhaps, but constellations with hundreds of satellites are a reality now. NROL is almost there and SDA will put up theirs this year, likely, with both building out the infrastructure every couple years. I think MTI is coming sooner rather than later now.

Hopefully.

Serious Space-Based Radars would be a godsend for the US military.

In any case, we certainly know of air and space borne recon platforms than can support the strike mission, and that is just the stuff we know of in open source operating right now. I suspect by the end of decade there will be high supersonic/hypersonic UAVs as well, assuming there are not already.

I'm not quite sure how likely hypersonics are, there's issues with sensors seeing out and their utter lack of stealth in IR.

But something cruising M2.2-3.2 and stealthy? Oh, yeah. The low end is to keep the thermal signature as low as achievable while still being usefully supersonic for the missions.

 

[FighterJock]

I would not hold my breath for very long in regards to Hypersonics appearing any time soon Scott Kenny.

 

[Scott Kenny]

One flight controls engineer I worked with at Pico who had been on TB said there was a production configuration from which I understand was a pretty sleek looking bird with increased VLO capability.

Oooooh, that would be so cool!

Do we know anything more about this?

 

[quellish]

Oooooh, that would be so cool!

Do we know anything more about this?

There is a 3 view in Tony Chong’s book. TACIT BLUE with F404s was the proposed production version.

 

[NMaude]

TACIT BLUE with F404s was the proposed production version.

I thought that Tacit Blue was a demonstrator not a prototype intended to be put into production.

 

[Hydroman]

I thought that Tacit Blue was a demonstrator not a prototype intended to be put into production.

And a change in shaping based upon flight testing results (aero and LO). There was a production plan if the program was to move forward.

 

[snne]

I suspect by the end of decade there will be high supersonic/hypersonic UAVs as well, assuming there are not already.

I mean, China is already testing MD-19/20/22/25/et al. and they seem to have non-insignificant plans for them in their future doctrines. And mind you, these recently disclosed information are from 2020.




MD-22 itself has some really wild specs (Mach 7 cruise - 8000 km range - 600kg payload)

Sure, they might get detected easily but you cannot deny the huge benefit they'd bring to the fight with their interception/attack/etc. potential. Even without considering what it's attack profiles might be; together with J-36, they can bring a whole lot more complexity to PLARF's long range missile salvos, thus make effective interception of said attack much harder and increase the cycle of attack.

Now combine this with our guesstimates of J-36's raw potential and imagine potential scenarios in a 2IC setting.

If not countered appropriately, these support assets could wreak havoc within your defence lines.

Scary stuff...